Author Topic: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?  (Read 8658 times)

dario73

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2011, 12:30:59 PM »
it was kinda hard to blame obama for ignoring that august memo which detailed the 911 attacks....cause he was still living in kenya at the time.

Ah. Yes, the memo that gave no detailed information as to how the attack was going to happen and when it might happen. Al Qaeda was such a threat that Clinton during his entire presidency did absolutely nothing about them.

I will let this gentleman explain it to you. If you still don't understand, then you have a huge problem. Watch from 7:30 on.  Watch how Ari destroys Chris from whom you learned to blame Bush for "ignoring the memo".



By your logic, I blame Obama for the current economic disaster. He did not see the coming recession, voted along with other Dems in support for the economic legislations signed by Bush in 2007 and he ignored the history of the government's failed policy of meddling in the economy.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2011, 07:24:33 PM »
US Senator John Kerry wants allies to 'crater' airports
theaustralian.com ^ | March 8, 2011 | Brad Norington



THE Obama administration is under renewed pressure to impose a no-fly zone over Libya after a leading US senator disputed the Pentagon's view that it would require a military attack.

Senator John Kerry yesterday said the US should prepare for a no-fly zone, with its allies, to thwart attempts by Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi to massacre large numbers of civilians.

As the White House retreated from the proposal, the senator said the US should consider "cratering" Libyan airports to disable Colonel Gaddafi's air force.

"The last thing we want to think about is any kind of military intervention, and I don't consider the no-fly zone stepping over that line," Senator Kerry said.

His opinion carries weight as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and an important Democratic ally of President Barack Obama.

He contradicted Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who condemned "loose talk" about a no-fly zone last week, saying it amounted to military intervention. "A no-fly zone begins with an attack on Libya to destroy the air defences," Dr Gates told a congressional committee hearing.

Speaking on CBS, Senator Kerry said: "That's actually not the only option for what one could do. One could crater the airports and the runways and leave them incapable of using them for a period of time."

The senator, a Vietnam War veteran and Democratic presidential nominee in 2004, was backed by senior Republican colleague John McCain.


(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.com.au ...

Skip8282

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2011, 07:44:52 PM »
But you started a thread.. I thought you for sure had conformation? Thats a serious offense..


How's that Palin report card thing working out for you?  I mean, you posted it how many times?  I thought for sure you had confirmation...

:D

Why so mad today?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2011, 07:50:21 PM »
Its ok, Mal is still in Step 2 of the Kubler-Ross 5 Steps of Grief model when it comes to obama. 

Fury

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2011, 07:53:58 PM »
Libya is of little strategic importance to the US so there is no reason to get involved. Like the left says, we're not world police.

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2011, 08:05:04 PM »
Libya is of little strategic importance to the US so there is no reason to get involved. Like the left says, we're not world police.

Libya is 8th in the world by oil reserve.  They matter.

If this was darfur, nobody would give a shit about a few hundred/thousand people (involved in an uprising) getting killed.

This is an excuse to get invovled to gain influence.  Oil.  Period.

Fury

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2011, 08:07:15 PM »
Libya is 8th in the world by oil reserve.  They matter.

If this was darfur, nobody would give a shit about a few hundred/thousand people (involved in an uprising) getting killed.

This is an excuse to get invovled to gain influence.  Oil.  Period.

They matter? Seems most of the experts in the military and civilian populace seem to think otherwise.

Contrary to your idiotic CTs, we don't steal oil. How'd Iraq work out for us, by the way? How many wells did we lose to the Chinese and other nations? That stealing oil thing worked out well. We invade, we destroy and then we can't be bothered to steal any oil. ::)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2011, 08:08:38 PM »
I wish we would have stolen the damn oil until our war debt was paid off. 

Fury

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2011, 08:10:39 PM »
Debka's also reporting that Qaddafi's claim that there are AQ and other jihadist fighters on the ground fighting alongside the rebels does seem credible. So expect Obama to arm them.

whork25

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2011, 02:19:09 AM »
I'm not opposed to an international invasion of Iran either.   Why do you always generalize people as if they apply to all people of a specific group?  Can you not think of people as individuals or are you yourself a walking stereo type therefore everyone else must be the same?

It is easier that way then he doesnt have to think so much
Like a kid you know

Skip8282

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #85 on: March 08, 2011, 06:26:23 PM »
All the more reason we should stay out of this shit.


No-fly zone in Libya? Wouldn't help, U.S. envoy says


As some U.S. lawmakers have pushed for the military tactic, President Obama is mum. But NATO ambassador Ivo Daalder says a no-fly zone wouldn't greatly affect the type of fighting going on in Libya. Meanwhile, the U.S. and its allies are under increasing pressure to take action in the country.

WASHINGTON — A senior U.S. envoy to NATO criticized proposals to have Western militaries suppress Libyan air attacks on rebels, saying a no-fly zone "isn't really going to impact what is happening there today" in the spreading war.

Even as U.S. officials insisted that such a zone remained an option, Ivo Daalder, the U.S. ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, told reporters that the number of Libyan air force flights had been decreasing since reaching a peak last week. He said it was hard to suppress helicopter attacks using the tactic.

"No-fly zones are more effective against fighters, but they really have a limited effect against … helicopters or the kind of ground operations that we've seen," he said. "Which is why a no-fly zone, even if it were to be established, isn't really going to impact what is happening there today."


Full story:  http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/sc-dc-obama-libya-20110307,0,5153201.story

Fury

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2011, 06:33:06 PM »
All the more reason we should stay out of this shit.


No-fly zone in Libya? Wouldn't help, U.S. envoy says


As some U.S. lawmakers have pushed for the military tactic, President Obama is mum. But NATO ambassador Ivo Daalder says a no-fly zone wouldn't greatly affect the type of fighting going on in Libya. Meanwhile, the U.S. and its allies are under increasing pressure to take action in the country.

WASHINGTON — A senior U.S. envoy to NATO criticized proposals to have Western militaries suppress Libyan air attacks on rebels, saying a no-fly zone "isn't really going to impact what is happening there today" in the spreading war.

Even as U.S. officials insisted that such a zone remained an option, Ivo Daalder, the U.S. ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, told reporters that the number of Libyan air force flights had been decreasing since reaching a peak last week. He said it was hard to suppress helicopter attacks using the tactic.

"No-fly zones are more effective against fighters, but they really have a limited effect against … helicopters or the kind of ground operations that we've seen," he said. "Which is why a no-fly zone, even if it were to be established, isn't really going to impact what is happening there today."


Full story:  http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/sc-dc-obama-libya-20110307,0,5153201.story


Debka, who is always on top of any military stuff in the Middle East long before the MSM is, says that the MSM has blown the air strikes completely out of proportion and they were really only used to scare the rebels as well as disorganize them. And secondly, that it's the helicopters doing the most damage.

But you're right. No good reason to get involved in a civil war.

Freeborn126

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #87 on: March 08, 2011, 07:34:50 PM »
As an OIF veteran I say I would go into Libya, but only if the neo cons Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, and O'Reilly lead the charge on the frontlines instead of sitting back in the million dollar studios while young kids do all the fighting and dying for them.  You should never go to war so carelessly, a no-fly zone is an act of war.  Not to mention we cannot afford it.

Military action in Libya=worst decision since invading Iraq
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a_joker10

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2011, 10:17:22 AM »
we get involved in civil wars when the countries have a resource we want.  Rudy admitted iran only matters cause of their oil - they'd be a 'paper dragon' without it.  Mccain admitted "never again will we have to go to war for oil".  

The party in the white house knows they have to sell involvement in civil affairs, and the party out of power likes to fight it.  Today in libya is just iraq reversed roles.  President mccain would be selling airstrikes, and libs would be crying about it right now, if mccain had won.


it's just ignorant to paint this as "those lousy dems" when it's just how govt works.  "someone" is going to step in and help one side win.  If China does it, and they pinkmist kadaffi's ass... they get a leg up in controlling the place when the dust settles.

SOMEONE is gonna do it, might as well be us... that's the argument of whatever Prez is in charge.

This isn't true.
Clinton with NATO instituted a no fly zone in Serbia.

This would be no different.

Sounds like Malta will give the Brits Airspace and there is a Carrier in the vicinity.

Lack of will by Obama is stopping this from happening.

Mainly because this goes against his first speech in the middle east. Where he decided to capitulate and blame Western Society for the problems in the Middle East.

Weak then and weak now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31102929/ns/politics-white_house/
More recently, tension has been fed by colonialism that denied rights and opportunities to many Muslims and a Cold War in which Muslim majority countries were too often treated as proxies without regard to their own aspirations. Moreover, the sweeping change brought by modernity and globalization led many Muslims to view the West as hostile to the traditions of Islam.
Z

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2011, 10:41:45 AM »
I heard on tv last night something about Newt coming out in support of airstrikes now?  is that true?  I got all of 3 minutes of political tv before falling asleep

a_joker10

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2011, 11:12:42 AM »
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made it clear imposing a no-fly zone is a matter for the United Nations and should not be a U.S.-led initiative.

The White House said, however, it believed a U.N. arms embargo on Libya contained the flexibility to allow the rebels to be armed if such a decision were made.


The US is in full capitulation mode.
Clinton didn't bow to the UN and GWB didn't how come Obama has to.

There will be no agreement in the UN which is fine with Obama since he won't have to confront the uprising.

For a country that once said that it would help democracies anywhere.

It now will prop up dictators in Regimes unfriendly to the US and then use the UN as cover.
Z

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #91 on: March 09, 2011, 11:15:20 AM »
I believe obama is praying for an energy crisis to push cap & trade again.   

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2011, 11:16:17 AM »
I think we should stay out of it.

You, me, and Obama are in agreement.

Leftists like Newt, pawlenty, mccain and kerry seem to think we should stick our noses into their affairs.

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2011, 08:52:49 PM »
Funny how you leftists are all hawks now.

33, do you still believe the "let's bomb libya" is a LEFTIST viewpoint?


Soul Crusher

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2011, 08:56:48 PM »
33, do you still believe the "let's bomb libya" is a LEFTIST viewpoint?



dont know but its been advocated by many on the left. 

Fury

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2011, 08:59:55 PM »
33, do you still believe the "let's bomb libya" is a LEFTIST viewpoint?



Is Kerry a Republican? He was the first one to start calling for "cratering" the runways.

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2011, 09:06:12 PM »
Is Kerry a Republican? He was the first one to start calling for "cratering" the runways.

Are you implying Mccain, Pawlenty and Newt are following kerry's leadership?

Methinks it's not about left/right.  Rather, warmongering vs common sense.  Kadaffi will kill the rebels and oil will come back down $.  Period. 

My point is that you can't call this a "leftist" movement when the 2008 presidential GOP candidate and two of the top potentials for 2012 GOp are all screaming about the need to bomb libya. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2011, 09:06:59 PM »
On Libya, Obama willing to let allies take the lead
The Washington Post ^ | Wednesday, March 9, 2011 | Scott Wilson


President Obama is content to let other nations publicly lead the search for solutions to the Libyan conflict, his advisers say, a stance that reflects the more humble tone he has sought to bring to U.S. foreign policy but one that also opens him to criticism that he is a weak leader.

The tactic is anathema to many conservatives and worries some liberal interventionists, who believe that only overt American authority can assemble an effective opposition to brutal authoritarian governments such as that of Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi.

Although Obama sees advantages in keeping Washington in the background, especially in a region where the United States is held in such low regard, he has exposed himself to Republican charges that he is absent at a time of crisis. Conservatives say his one-of-the-team approach could also signal a decline in American fortitude after nearly a decade of war.

Since the uprising began, Obama has devoted just one set of public remarks solely to the situation in Libya, where fighting has reached a harsh stalemate. European nations have taken the lead in drafting a no-fly zone resolution, and Obama has yet to say whether he favors one. He followed France in calling for Gaddafi's ouster.

At a Wednesday meeting of Obama's senior national security officials, little support emerged for the immediate imposition of a no-fly zone, according to an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe internal deliberations.

Jamming Libyan government communications and deploying U.S. naval assets to help deliver humanitarian aid were among the most favored near-term options, the official said, adding that "at any time facts on the ground could change, but the intelligence assessment now dispels the idea that a no-fly zone is the key here."


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


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Fury

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2011, 09:08:45 PM »
Are you implying Mccain, Pawlenty and Newt are following kerry's leadership?

Methinks it's not about left/right.  Rather, warmongering vs common sense.  Kadaffi will kill the rebels and oil will come back down $.  Period. 

My point is that you can't call this a "leftist" movement when the 2008 presidential GOP candidate and two of the top potentials for 2012 GOp are all screaming about the need to bomb libya. 

Oil will come back down? Oil's been rising for months now, troll.  ::)

I only called it a leftist movement after you decided to completely omit Kerry's name from any post you made about it in your attempt to throw it on the right, even after Kerry was the first to start calling for a No Fly zone.

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Re: Should we initiate a no-fly zone in Libya?
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2011, 09:11:35 PM »
Oil will come back down? Oil's been rising for months now, troll.  ::)

???

how much has oil risen in the last 2 weeks? 

Are you saying the spike in prices, in the last 2 weeks is unrelated to the 2 shut down libyan ports?