Author Topic: Obama's illegal war  (Read 66975 times)

Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #125 on: March 22, 2011, 02:14:33 PM »

tu_holmes

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #126 on: March 22, 2011, 02:17:04 PM »
It's illegal if it isn't authorized by the constitution.

That's not true... If it's not specifically in the constitution it doesn't make it necessarily denied.

The War Powers Act of 1973 (as others have mentioned) seems to address this.

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #127 on: March 22, 2011, 02:17:09 PM »
Yes, I do agree... but Presidents do it anyway.



That is the problem, congress doesn't seem to want to say hold on, you can't do that. They just throw out a few sound bites and then do nothing else. Someone posted the notification to the congress from Obama. It appears that he is trying to say that a civil war in Libya is going to create a humanitarian crisis through out the ME that will affect US assets. So why wasn't the same true for Egypt? Bharain? ...........  There is more at play here, my guess is we won't know for 20 years exactly what it is.
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Dos Equis

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #128 on: March 22, 2011, 02:19:06 PM »
Why not?

Because the president, as commander in chief, has the authority to order military action without a declaration of war, which has happened in every conflict since WWII.

Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #129 on: March 22, 2011, 02:19:44 PM »
That's not true... If it's not specifically in the constitution it doesn't make it necessarily denied.

The War Powers Act of 1973 (as others have mentioned) seems to address this.

The constitution specifically limits his power on that point.  Saw some news story with "humanitarian intervention doctrine" which is probably how they're going to justify this.  Whatever. onward to the abyss.

tu_holmes

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #130 on: March 22, 2011, 02:21:03 PM »
The constitution specifically limits his power on that point.  Saw some news story with "humanitarian intervention doctrine" which is probably how they're going to justify this.  Whatever. onward to the abyss.

I think it's horrendous. We should not be doing this as a country.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #131 on: March 22, 2011, 02:21:26 PM »
Obama is now adopting the national building agenda for this mess.  


Hope & Change!  

Can't wait for the 2012 race and the rationale bama nuts give to get him re-elected.  

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #132 on: March 22, 2011, 02:21:40 PM »
That's not true... If it's not specifically in the constitution it doesn't make it necessarily denied.

The War Powers Act of 1973 (as others have mentioned) seems to address this.

Congress has to declare war, the POTUS is the CIC once war has been declared. The only reason the war powers act exists is because POTUS's sending US personal into "wars" without them ever being declared by congress, calling them "police actions" or "peace keeping missions"
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Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #133 on: March 22, 2011, 02:25:25 PM »
Incredibly short sighted.  What does he think will happen when rebels in S. Arabia take encouragement from this?  Goodbye, economic recovery. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #134 on: March 22, 2011, 02:26:42 PM »
Incredibly short sighted.  What does he think will happen when rebels in S. Arabia take encouragement from this?  Goodbye, economic recovery. 

? ? ? ?   

Economic recovery? 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #135 on: March 22, 2011, 02:28:17 PM »
The Rise of Samantha Power and the risks for the American- Israel relationship
American Thinker ^ | March 20, 2011






As stories leak out regarding who was responsible for Barack Obama's sudden pivot from passivity regarding Libya towards military engagement (albeit with England and France being in the lead) one name has emerged as playing a key role in persuading him to push the button: Samantha Power. Her influence might cause qualms among supporters of the American-Israel relationship...Power has been critical of the strength of this friendship and alliance. This concern should be now be heightened. Not only has she emerged as a key player in foreign policy but the rationale that was used to justify American actions towards Libya can be used by other nations - if not the United States - to justify more active involvement in the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

Power was Barack Obama's most influential foreign policy adviser during the campaign; they go back years...Any influence she has would not be good for the American-Israel relationship-for reasons outlined here and here (where she said this regarding problems Barack Obama had during the campaign; "So much of it is about: Is he good for the Jews?").

Power may also have played a role in the granting of the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Mary Robinson, a person with a checkered record regarding actions towards Israel.

She now serves on the National Security Council. Foreign-policy making in this administration has been opaque at best. But one dynamic that has been now made clear is that Power has emerged as a key player....


According to Rogin, the governing doctrine that helped Obama to make his decision to act was not an appeal to the national interest, but rather to a recent concept promulgated at the United Nations called "responsibility to protect," or R2P. R2P is an effort to create a new international moral standard to prevent violence against civilians....

So it was not an appeal to our national interest that led President Obama to act but rather a new concept circulating in international policy circles - and one actively promoted by Power - that prompted his shift.

(By the way, the fact that Power played a key role in persuading Barack Obama to apply military force to protect civilians in Libya is akin to the same advice she counseled regarding Israel: Power also advocated that America send armed military forces, "a mammoth protection force" and an "external intervention", to impose a settlement between Israel and the Palestinians)....


Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #136 on: March 22, 2011, 02:29:52 PM »
Oh brother.  Not bad looking but a total hippy chick.  I thought she got canned from whatever admin position she had for calling Hillary a monster or something.


The Rise of Samantha Power and the risks for the American- Israel relationship
American Thinker ^ | March 20, 2011






As stories leak out regarding who was responsible for Barack Obama's sudden pivot from passivity regarding Libya towards military engagement (albeit with England and France being in the lead) one name has emerged as playing a key role in persuading him to push the button: Samantha Power. Her influence might cause qualms among supporters of the American-Israel relationship...Power has been critical of the strength of this friendship and alliance. This concern should be now be heightened. Not only has she emerged as a key player in foreign policy but the rationale that was used to justify American actions towards Libya can be used by other nations - if not the United States - to justify more active involvement in the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

Power was Barack Obama's most influential foreign policy adviser during the campaign; they go back years...Any influence she has would not be good for the American-Israel relationship-for reasons outlined here and here (where she said this regarding problems Barack Obama had during the campaign; "So much of it is about: Is he good for the Jews?").

Power may also have played a role in the granting of the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Mary Robinson, a person with a checkered record regarding actions towards Israel.

She now serves on the National Security Council. Foreign-policy making in this administration has been opaque at best. But one dynamic that has been now made clear is that Power has emerged as a key player....


According to Rogin, the governing doctrine that helped Obama to make his decision to act was not an appeal to the national interest, but rather to a recent concept promulgated at the United Nations called "responsibility to protect," or R2P. R2P is an effort to create a new international moral standard to prevent violence against civilians....

So it was not an appeal to our national interest that led President Obama to act but rather a new concept circulating in international policy circles - and one actively promoted by Power - that prompted his shift.

(By the way, the fact that Power played a key role in persuading Barack Obama to apply military force to protect civilians in Libya is akin to the same advice she counseled regarding Israel: Power also advocated that America send armed military forces, "a mammoth protection force" and an "external intervention", to impose a settlement between Israel and the Palestinians)....



Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #137 on: March 22, 2011, 02:32:55 PM »
Yup- she, Hillary, and Susan Rice went to the WH the night before bama left for his vacation and screamed at Obama until he gave the ok on this. 

Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #138 on: March 22, 2011, 02:34:15 PM »
Yup- she, Hillary, and Susan Rice went to the WH the night before bama left for his vacation and screamed at Obama until he gave the ok on this. 

I thought she and Hillary hated each other though.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #139 on: March 22, 2011, 02:36:53 PM »
I thought she and Hillary hated each other though.

Maybe so, but the story emerging from the WH and how this went down was that those three ganged up on obama and agreed to military intervenion at their collective onslaught for this. 

Apparently DOD, NSC Advisor, and others were against this.   

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #140 on: March 22, 2011, 03:09:11 PM »
The Bush Smear - Obama makes a revealing misstatement in Chile
humanevents.com ^ | 03/22/2011 | John Hayward





Speaking in Chile to defend his decision to launch Operation Odyssey Dawn, President Obama couldn’t resist taking a swipe at George Bush, in a clumsy attempt to make himself look superior.

As reported by Fox News, the President declared: "In the past there have been times when the United States acted unilaterally or did not have full international support, and as a consequence typically it was the United States military that ended up bearing the entire burden."

As the folks at Fox quickly pointed out, Bush actually had twice as many international allies for the invasion of Iraq as Obama has put together for his adventure in Libya. They even put together a list.

The thinking behind this latest Bush smear is extremely troubling. You might view Obama reflexively blaming or denigrating Bush as a dog-bites-man story, but consider the context.

Odyssey Dawn is only four days old. Unlike Bush, Obama made no effort to prepare the American people for the operation, and now that the initial surprise has worn off, significant questions are being asked about his authority to launch these attacks. The concept of taking executive action to counter an imminent threat was arguable in Bush’s case – and people have been arguing about it for years – but utterly risible with respect to Libya. Indeed, the Administration hasn’t even tried to advance such an argument.

Serious questions are being asked about the long-term objectives of Odyssey Dawn, how much of it we’ll be expected to pay for, and whether promises to avoid the commitment of ground forces will be kept.

Against this backdrop, Obama decided to throw out an offhanded smear of his predecessor… a slander so transparently false that it was debunked within minutes?

That’s a disconnect with reality so profound that it verges on mental illness. It also highlights just how half-hearted and poorly thought out this decision was. The President has a massive staff and an enormous political team, but apparently no effort was made to put together a comprehensive response to critics of Libya policy. Nobody gamed out the scenario, considered the most predictable developments, and developed comprehensive, well-researched answers to likely challenges. Instead, it was Improv Night in front of a brick wall in Chile, and the President decided to haul out the old joke about Bush the Unitary Executive.

The President’s comment demonstrates an appalling lack of knowledge about the Iraq war. He ran as an outspoken opponent of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay… but has continued all three, and now added Libya. It would seem his campaign criticism was not informed and intelligent opposition, but rather a general conviction that George Bush is the devil, and anything he did should be mindlessly denounced from every possible angle.

Congress is understandably upset that they weren’t even formally notified about Odyssey Dawn until several days of bombing had already gone by. No rational person could have thought they would be mollified by boasting of how many international allies were consulted, especially since this is a coalition Obama was dragged into. This is not the rhetoric of a President who has been carefully weighing policy options since the beginning of the Libyan uprising. It’s the irritable snarl of a man who sent American troops into combat to get everyone off his back, so he could get back to doing what he enjoys.


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I'm serious -    FUCK YOU whoever still supports this lunatic.   

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #141 on: March 22, 2011, 03:24:41 PM »
I guess the Brits are sending 600 royal marines into the Med. You don't need 600 dudes for SAR. No idea what they're going to do there. Incidently the entire 82nd is home for the first time since 2001. I'm in a unit now that supports them so if they go...I'll be going at some point as well. I'll let you all know.
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tu_holmes

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #142 on: March 22, 2011, 03:27:02 PM »
I guess the Brits are sending 600 royal marines into the Med. You don't need 600 dudes for SAR. No idea what they're going to do there. Incidently the entire 82nd is home for the first time since 2001. I'm in a unit now that supports them so if they go...I'll be going at some point as well. I'll let you all know.

I certainly hope not... You deserve to stay home for awhile.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #143 on: March 22, 2011, 03:31:38 PM »
We all know the deal on this.  Lies and more lies.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #144 on: March 22, 2011, 03:37:20 PM »
I really hope this piece of trash is impeached and jailed for life.  What a disgraceful human being he is still blaming bush and making apologies overseas for our country.


Whoever still supports this admn at this point is as bad as he is imho and just as traitorous and treasonous. 

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #145 on: March 22, 2011, 03:41:50 PM »
Yeah I'd really like to.....so glad the friggen NFL decides to strike on the year I'm home...u can all blame me...bad karma. I don't think we're going to send in ground troops. It appears from the news that the coalition is having all kinds of issues. This again proves that NATO is worthless without us. Barry decided to allow other people to step up....good in theory but doesn't work. More bs we can't afford.
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blacken700

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #146 on: March 22, 2011, 03:50:40 PM »
I really hope this piece of trash is impeached and jailed for life.  What a disgraceful human being he is still blaming bush and making apologies overseas for our country.


Whoever still supports this admn at this point is as bad as he is imho and just as traitorous and treasonous. 

crazy talk  :D :D

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #147 on: March 22, 2011, 04:10:17 PM »
Because the president, as commander in chief, has the authority to order military action without a declaration of war, which has happened in every conflict since WWII.

holy libspeak, batman.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #148 on: March 22, 2011, 05:12:37 PM »
Nice that obama found a way to trash bush, the nation, and lie agin while in chile.  What a disgrace.  A friggin real disgrace. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #149 on: March 22, 2011, 05:13:58 PM »