Author Topic: Obama's illegal war  (Read 67024 times)

Skip8282

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #425 on: April 07, 2011, 01:35:42 PM »
Libyan Rebel Commander: "Cut Gadaffi's Throat, Then Establish an Islamic State."
Pajamas Media ^ | April 4, 2011




While American intelligence experts search for "flickers" of jihadist involvement in the Libyan rebellion, a French reporter had no problem finding numerous jihadists on the front. "The Jihadists Go to the Front" is the title of French journalist Julien Fouchet's report from eastern Libya. Fouchet encountered a flagrant jihadist presence and met with participants who talked openly about their dedication to jihad and/or their desire to establish an Islamic state. Fouchet spotted a commander on a sand dune giving orders by satellite phone. "You can't speak to him," rebel fighters told Fouchet. "He's not fighting for Libya, it's for Allah." Further to the east Fouchet met a certain Sheikh Al-Hasy, director of the town's mosque who said "Those who followed the prophet Mohammed were the first jihadists so we're burying our martyrs next to them." Photos taken by Fouchet show a wall of the mosque covered with portraits of the "martyrs." Another commander told Fouchet "In the past I didn't like NATO. Now that they are HELPING US in Libya, it's different." As to his goals, "al-Sadi" explained to Fouchet that he had rejoined the jihad in order to "cut Gaddafi's throat and establish an Islamic state."


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I'm shocked...oh wait.  ::)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #426 on: April 07, 2011, 02:40:17 PM »
Democrat: White House is low-balling costs of Libya mission
** FILE ** Susan E. Rice, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, speaks during the daily news briefing at the White House in Washington on Monday, Feb., 28, 2011. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)
By Seth McLaughlin
-
The Washington Times
11:30 a.m., Thursday, April 7, 2011




A Democratic lawmaker said Thursday that the White House is “dramatically underestimating” the cost of the nation’s military involvement in Libya by relying on misleading accounting.

“That effort is costing us billions a week,” Rep. Brad Sherman, California Democrat and a certified public accountant, said in his opening remarks at a House Foreign Relations Committee hearing on reforming the United Nations with Susan E. Rice, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

Last week, Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates testified that the nation’s initial involvement in establishing a no-fly zone over the skies of Libya carried a $550 million price tag and that the cost going forward would be about $40 million a month. He also assured lawmakers he had enough money in his budget to absorb the costs without asking Congress for new funding — though he wasn’t ready to say where exactly the money would come from.

But Mr. Sherman on Thursday said the estimates are based on what’s known as “marginal-cost accounting,” which doesn’t include costs for things such as overhead from the development of the weapons systems and equipment being used, or the salaries of the people involved in the effort.

“We need to use full-cost accounting,” Mr. Sherman said.

© Copyright 2011 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.

Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #427 on: April 07, 2011, 03:58:35 PM »
Libyan Rebel Commander: "Cut Gadaffi's Throat, Then Establish an Islamic State."
Pajamas Media ^ | April 4, 2011




While American intelligence experts search for "flickers" of jihadist involvement in the Libyan rebellion, a French reporter had no problem finding numerous jihadists on the front. "The Jihadists Go to the Front" is the title of French journalist Julien Fouchet's report from eastern Libya. Fouchet encountered a flagrant jihadist presence and met with participants who talked openly about their dedication to jihad and/or their desire to establish an Islamic state. Fouchet spotted a commander on a sand dune giving orders by satellite phone. "You can't speak to him," rebel fighters told Fouchet. "He's not fighting for Libya, it's for Allah." Further to the east Fouchet met a certain Sheikh Al-Hasy, director of the town's mosque who said "Those who followed the prophet Mohammed were the first jihadists so we're burying our martyrs next to them." Photos taken by Fouchet show a wall of the mosque covered with portraits of the "martyrs." Another commander told Fouchet "In the past I didn't like NATO. Now that they are HELPING US in Libya, it's different." As to his goals, "al-Sadi" explained to Fouchet that he had rejoined the jihad in order to "cut Gaddafi's throat and establish an Islamic state."


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And Obama is gladly helping these pieces of shit. It really makes me wonder if this guy is actually trying to re-establish the caliphate.

tu_holmes

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #428 on: April 07, 2011, 04:02:24 PM »
And Obama is gladly helping these pieces of shit. It really makes me wonder if this guy is actually trying to re-establish the caliphate.

I thought we stopped almost all of our missions... I was reading or listening something about that earlier.


Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #429 on: April 07, 2011, 04:10:09 PM »
I thought we stopped almost all of our missions... I was reading or listening something about that earlier.



From what I read, we wanted to stop and then when it became apparent that the rest of NATO is incompetent and inept we were forced to keep flying them.

Now they're talking about putting troops on the ground.

tu_holmes

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #430 on: April 07, 2011, 04:21:01 PM »
From what I read, we wanted to stop and then when it became apparent that the rest of NATO is incompetent and inept we were forced to keep flying them.

Now they're talking about putting troops on the ground.

This is so fucking retarded... Of course NATO is incompetent... We knew that... How is that these people don't?

I wanna run for President Nick... You wanna be my Secretary of Defense?

I'm sure we'd do a much better job.

225for70

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #431 on: April 07, 2011, 04:24:47 PM »
Nato Bombing Ivory coast now..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/cotedivoire/8428251/Ivory-Coast-UN-air-strikes-show-Wests-new-appetite-for-military-action.html
Ivory Coast: UN air strikes show West's new appetite for military action
The UN air strikes in Ivory Coast suggest Libya was no fluke: the West's appetite for military action has recovered robustly from the diplomatic trauma of the Iraq war.

UN air strikes are seen behind a tree in Abidjan Photo: REUTERS
By Jon Swaine, New York 12:13AM BST 05 Apr 2011
After a brief honeymoon following the successful mission to protect Kosovo in 1999, it seemed the Blairite era of "liberal interventionism" had been buried along with tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians.
The chaos after the steamrollering of the UN Security Council by Tony Blair and George W. Bush in 2002-03 seemed likely to usher in a new period of isolationism.
Barack Obama swept to power in 2008 on a wave of anti-war sentiment, while David Cameron entered Downing Street last year insisting that the West "can't drop democracy from 40,000ft".
Yet the past three weeks have found the council – this time with a less noisy Anglo-American wing – willing to pass stunningly powerful resolutions allowing missile strikes against murderous leaders.
Both resolution 1973 on Libya and resolution 1975 on Ivory Coast give external forces the authority to take "all necessary" measures to protect civilians from violence – practically a carte blanche.
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A Western diplomat at the UN last night said the resolutions showed members were taking seriously the "Responsibility to Protect" doctrine, adopted in 2006, promising "timely and decisive action" against atrocities.
"TV pictures and the threat of humanitarian catastrophe have made people not want to wait for massacres to happen, as in Rwanda," he said, in language strikingly reminiscent of the Blair-Clinton era.
The diplomat said that crucial in both cases had been the endorsement of action by the respective regional authorities – on Libya, the Arab League and on Ivory Coast, Ecowas and the African Union.
"It's very difficult if you're Russia or China to say 'no' if the Arabs and the Africans themselves are saying 'yes'," he said.
Also important has been the belligerence of Paris. The site of the Chirac-era "Non!" has become gung-ho, ensuring military – and symbolic – backing from the European mainland.
While Mr Obama has stayed almost invisible, the domestically embattled Nicolas Sarkozy has taken personal "ownership" of both interventions, rushing out his statements before anyone else.
It may not last. "There will be a price to pay for rushing these things through," the diplomat said. "The Indians are very unhappy and agreed only reluctantly."
But for the time being, the "something must be done" attitude of the late 1990s – and talk of a single-willed "international community" – has made a surprise return to New York's Turtle Bay.


Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #432 on: April 07, 2011, 04:29:09 PM »
This is so fucking retarded... Of course NATO is incompetent... We knew that... How is that these people don't?

I wanna run for President Nick... You wanna be my Secretary of Defense?

I'm sure we'd do a much better job.


Hahaha! I'm down.  8)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #433 on: April 07, 2011, 08:06:02 PM »
Libyan rebels near Ajdabiya 'killed in Nato air strike'



Rebels in eastern Libya say their forces have been mistakenly hit in a Nato air raid on a rebel tank position.

Rebels said five died, while doctors in Ajdabiya told the BBC at least 13 rebel fighters had been killed in the strike.

The BBC's Wyre Davies reported chaotic scenes on the outskirts of Ajdabiya, with rebel forces in retreat.

It was the third such incident in recent days involving international forces deployed to protect Libyan civilians.

One rebel commander told the BBC he saw at least four missiles land among rebel fighters.

As well as those killed, many more were injured, he said.

Civilians were said to be fleeing Ajdabiya in their thousands, according to agency reports, after rumours spread that pro-Gaddafi forces were preparing to attack the city.

Meanwhile, a relief ship carrying emergency supplies of food and medicine has arrived in the besieged rebel-held city of Misrata, in western Libya.

Rebel anger
 
The rebels hit in the air strike had been moving a group of tanks, armoured vehicles and rocket launchers near the frontline between the towns of Ajdabiya and Brega in more than 30 transporters.

Continue reading the main story

Start Quote
Nato, with all the equipment they have - is this the second mistake? Is it really a mistake or something arranged secretly?”
End Quote
Benghazi resident
 
In pictures: Nato 'hits Libya rebels'
There is considerable anger among rebel troops at what appears to have been a terrible mistake, our correspondent says.

They are asking why rebel units were hit, he adds, when they could be seen clearly advancing in a westerly direction towards the front line.

"It is unbelievable," said one Benghazi resident. "Nato, with all the equipment they have - is this the second mistake? Is it really a mistake or something arranged secretly?"

Another said: "The allies and the UN Security Council must allow us to be armed. We don't want anything, just to be armed to defend ourselves against this dictator and fascist."

Rebel forces in the area began retreating on Wednesday after heavy bombardment from government forces.

They had been calling for more Nato air strikes in recent days.

Nato said it was investigating the incident, noting that the area where the attack occurred was "unclear and fluid with mechanized weapons travelling in all directions".

"What remains clear is that Nato will continue to uphold the UN mandate and strike forces that can potentially cause harm to the civilian population of Libya," said the alliance in a statement.

Meanwhile, a different rebel spokesman said Thursday's fatal air strike was carried out by pro-government forces rather than by Nato.

"This was not a Nato air-strike; on the contrary, it was conducted by Gaddafi's brigades using SIAI Marchetti SF-260 planes," Col Ahmad Bani told al-Arabiya television.

'Friendly-fire incidents'
 
The alliance took over air operations from a US, French and British coalition a week ago, to enforce a UN mandate to protect civilians in Libya.


Click to play
AdvertisementA doctor at Ajdabiya hospital tells the BBC's Wyre Davies that there are many serious injuries
Last Friday, at least 13 people were reportedly killed when a coalition plane fired on a rebel convoy between Brega and Ajdabiya.

Three medical students were among the dead.

The attack came after rebels reportedly fired an anti-aircraft gun.

In a separate incident, seven civilians died and 25 were hurt in a coalition air strike on a pro-Gaddafi convoy near Brega.

Further west, in Libya's third-biggest city, Misrata, a ship chartered by the UN World Food Programme delivered hundreds of tonnes of high energy biscuits, flour, and water purification tablets, as well as enough medicine to last 30,000 people for a month.

Misrata has been under attack by Libyan government forces for several weeks, and Libyan rebels have complained it would "cease to exist" within a week unless Nato took action to save it.

Meanwhile, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has defended his policy in Libya, after criticism by some Libyan rebels that Turkey was trying to keep Col Gaddafi in power and had blocked access to rebel arms supplies.

"We've never had any secret agenda there," said Mr Erdogan. "Our only interest is securing the unity and well-being of Libya".

Mr Erdogan added that Turkey was working on achieving an early ceasefire, and the withdrawal of pro-Gaddafi forces from some cities.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #434 on: April 09, 2011, 08:29:17 AM »
Shelling in East Libya Forces Rebel Retreat
VOA News April 09, 2011


Photo: Reuters
A rebel fighter stands on the back of a pick-up truck mounted with a rocket launcher at a staging post on the road between Ajdabiyah and Brega in Libya, April 9, 2011

Pro-government forces in Libya have shelled rebel fighters near Ajdabiya, challenging the rebels' hold on the city.

The attacks Saturday forced rebels to retreat, slowing their westward advance toward the oil town of Brega on the Mediterranean Sea.

Brega has gone from regime to rebel control and back again several times since the start of an uprising against the government of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

Meanwhile, the Red Cross says a ship carrying medical supplies has docked in Misrata, a town that has been besieged by pro-Gadhafi forces for weeks.  It is the only city in western Libya where rebels have been able to maintain control.



Some information for this report was provided by AP, AFP and Reuters.

 

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Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #435 on: April 11, 2011, 09:59:20 AM »
Pentagon estimates Libya costs at $608 million (and counting...lots of angry comments)
YahooNews ^




WASHINGTON – The Pentagon said Monday the military intervention in Libya cost the U.S. an extra $608 million in the first few of weeks of the operation. Spending is down significantly, though not as much as expected. Defense Department spokeswoman Navy Cmdr. Kathleen Kesler said it will take several weeks to tally exactly how much has been spent. But $608 million is the price tag officials have estimated through April 4 — or for 17 days of the mission, the most recent figures available. The estimate shows a large drop from what the U.S. spent in the early days of the multinational operation that started March 19 — roughly $55 million a day in the first 10 days, then about $8.3 million a day in the seven that followed.

Still, very rough projections late last month estimated costs would decline even more than that as the U.S. handed lead of the operation to NATO. The alliance would also conduct most of the bombing missions. Officials didn't explain what caused the higher-than-expected rate of spending. It's possible at least part is due to the fact that the full transition to NATO went a little slower than expected.

It is the second time the Pentagon has released costs for setting up the no-fly zone in the North African nation and protecting civilians from strongman Moammar Gadhafi as he resists a movement to oust him.

Officials late last month said the added spending from March 19 through March 28, the first 10 days of the intervention, was $550 million. About 60 percent was for munitions. The remaining costs were for "higher operating tempo" of U.S. forces and of getting them there.

[...]


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Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #436 on: April 11, 2011, 11:01:09 AM »
Arab League to request UN enforced No Fly Zone over Gaza
Hot Air ^ | April 11, 2011 | Bruce McQuain





It was only a matter of time for the real reason behind the “right to protect” (R2P) principle the UN has adopted to become apparent.

The Arab League provides it in its appeal to the UN: The Arab League (AL) said on Sunday it would ask the United Nations to consider imposing a no-fly zone over the Gaza Strip to protect the civilians against Israeli air strikes.

In a statement issued after an emergency meeting of the pan- Arab organization at the permanent delegates’ level in its Cairo headquarter, the AL said it would ask the United Nation Security Council to convene an emergency meeting to discuss the Israeli aggression over Gaza to lift the siege and impose a no-fly zone against the Israeli military to protect civilians.

The statement rejected the double standard policies towards the Palestinian case, urging the UN Security Council and the Quartet committee to bear all responsibilities for halting the subsequent massacres and provide an international protection for the unarmed citizens.

Now, this shouldn’t have a chance since it takes a vote of the Security Council to pass something like this and the US, with a permanent seat, has the right to veto any resolution calling for such a measure.

And a few years ago I’d have had no worries about there even being a ghost of a chance of such a measure being agreed to by the US. I have no such assurance now with this administration. And don’t forget, they got the cooperation of the Security Council recently for the imposition of the Libyan NFZ, so they’ll be asked for cooperation on this – it’s the trap that may have been set from the outset.

Of course, unaddressed by the AL is the provocation for the latest round of air attacks from Israel by the terrorist group Hamas:

Violence in Gaza started when Hamas, which holds sway there, fired a rocket at an Israeli school bus, critically wounding a 16- year-old student. Hamas later said it did not know the bus was carrying students. Hamas more than “holds sway there” – Hamas “governs” there. What it continues to do is execute acts of war against Israel and then whines when Israel reacts. What the AL is doing is attempting to get the US to level the playing field and create better opportunities for Hamas to continue firing rockets into Israel. And, of course, brave Hamas always ensures it does its provocations from areas with high densities of civilians. And Hamas could give a rip whether there were students on the bus. Read the description again – it was a freakin’ school bus. What else did they expect to be on it?

Note too that the AL uses precisely the argument that I and others who wrote about the application of R2P said would happen. The citing of a “double-standard” (you’ll do Libya but not Gaza?). It’s nonsense on a stick, of course, because supposedly R2P is there to protect civilians from their own government, not another government retaliating against deadly attacks by their own government.

This again illustrates the danger of such “principles” as the UN’s R2P. It is now being considered a tool by the weak but tyrannical in an effort to downgrade the defensive abilities of Israel to protect itself.

I say give them the go-ahead and let the AL enforce the NFZ. It will be good for fighter jet sales as the IAF will scatter pieces and parts of the various AL air forces over the Gaza strip as a result.


Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #437 on: April 11, 2011, 11:05:15 AM »
I hate to break the news to the Arab League, but the Israeli's have some of the finest pilots in the world, it wouldn't be a cake walk like Libya.
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Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #438 on: April 11, 2011, 11:08:53 AM »
I called this move by the Arab League weeks ago. They were setting this up from the beginning.

Though like Kazan said, good luck. From what I've read, Israeli pilots are among the best there are.



In regards to Libya, the rebels rejected the AU's offer for a cease-fire. A cease-fire proposal that Gadhafi had accepted. This war is already becoming a sad joke and is going to end up as a colossal failure on Obama's behalf.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #439 on: April 11, 2011, 11:09:45 AM »
I called this move by the Arab League weeks ago. They were setting this up from the beginning.

Though like Kazan said, good luck. From what I've read, Israeli pilots are among the best there are.

According to Powers, Rice, and Obama - the arab league is more important than the congress.     

Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #440 on: April 11, 2011, 11:11:20 AM »
According to Powers, Rice, and Obama - the arab league is more important than the congress.     

Foreigners, Muslims, illegal immigrants are all more important than Americans to the God-King. Not surprising that they value the opinion of the Arab League more.

These Arab regimes have been buying western military equipment for decades. Why not put it to use and enforce the NFZ themselves? But they won't because they're pussies and scared to death of the Israelis.

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #441 on: April 11, 2011, 11:11:33 AM »
According to Powers, Rice, and Obama - the arab league is more important than the congress.     

Yeah we'll see how happy people are with a NFZ over Gaza when dog fights ensue and both sides have losses.
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Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #442 on: April 11, 2011, 11:12:59 AM »
Foreigners, Muslims, illegal immigrants are all more important than Americans to the God-King. Not surprising that they value the opinion of the Arab League more.

These Arab regimes have been buying western military equipment for decades. Why not put it to use and enforce the NFZ themselves? But they won't because they're pussies and scared to death of the Israelis.

Exactly the Arabs know they have a snowballs chance in hell taking on Israel head-on, so see if you can get the UN to do it
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #443 on: April 11, 2011, 11:13:33 AM »
Foreigners, Muslims, illegal immigrants are all more important than Americans to the God-King. Not surprising that they value the opinion of the Arab League more.

These Arab regimes have been buying western military equipment for decades. Why not put it to use and enforce the NFZ themselves? But they won't because they're pussies and scared to death of the Israelis.

They are hoping boy wonderbama will save them. 

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #444 on: April 13, 2011, 06:03:44 AM »
The Battle against Gadhafi
NATO Fears War without End in Libya
By Carsten Volkery




http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,755616,00.html



Rebel fighters in the town of Brega. Their leaders have demanded more air strikes from NATO.



The front in Libya is barely moving as the country remains split between rebels and Gadhafi's troops. The rebels are complaining of not receiving enough air support, but NATO is hardly in a position to ramp it up after the withdrawal of US fighter jets. The resulting stalemate underscores the lack of a clear strategy for the allies in Libya.

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American warplanes had hardly left the skies over Libya when the remonstrations began. "NATO has let us down," said rebel military chief Abdul Fattah Younis. As the rebels retreated in the town of Brega in the face of a heavy onslaught by Gadhafi's troops, there were no NATO planes in sight.


The withdrawal of the American planes, which flew more than half of the sorties in the first two weeks of the air strikes, has weakened NATO's potential force. With the organization having taken control of the operation, American planes are now only in standby mode, leaving the much smaller air forces of France and the United Kingdom to take on most of the workload. Appeals from the NATO leadership to member countries to send more aircraft have so far been met with little success. Only the British have beefed up their presence, increasing the number of its Tornado contingent from eight to 12. The French, meanwhile, are having to split their military resouces between two fronts now, with the opening of the conflict in the Ivory Coast.

But the Libyan rebels are not alone in their complaints: Within NATO, there is also increasing frustration at the slow progress on the ground. The seemingly rudderless attacking and fleeing of the untrained fighters in the face of government soldiers is causing the Western allies to despair, albeit not in public, because it looks more and more likely that the undeclared aim of the international intervention -- the removal of dictator Moammar Gadhafi -- will probably never be achieved.

And this mutual disillusionment suggests that the second phase of the civil war is now beginning. The situation which critics had feared from the start has now seemingly occurred: a stalemate. The rebels are strong enough, with the support of NATO, to maintain their control of Benghazi, but are too weak to drive on in the direction of Tripoli. The front is moving a few miles back and forth, but the split between the Gadhafi-controlled west of the country and the rebel zone in the east seems to be solidifying.

"Sliding into a Prolonged Conflict"

"Libya appears to be sliding into a prolonged conflict with no light at the end of the tunnel," Fawaz Gerges, a Middle East expert at the London School of Economics (LSE), wrote in a commentary posted on CNN's website. The tenacious resistance of the Gadhafi regime is not surprising, he added, "given the tribal structure of Libyan society and Gadhafi's manipulation and co-opting of tribal divisions and allies."

NATO can always point to the fact that it is simply implementing the aims agreed upon by the United Nations -- a no-fly zone and the protection of civilians. But in reality, it is hardly a secret that the true goals of the operation are more than that. Every day that Gadhafi remains in power, pressure is growing on Western politicians and military leaders. The question of how long the intervention will last is increasingly being asked out loud. The British Royal Air Force chief estimated this week that it would take six months. Politicians, on the other hand, have had the foresight not to mention any deadlines.

The discussion in the West has been running in circles for quite some time now, although the question of whether to arm the rebels has been answered: The first deliveries of light weapons from abroad have arrived, rebel leader Younis said. The British government has also sent communications equipment to enable rebel leaders to better command their fighters. The international community appears to have agreed, however, that heavy artillery and complex high-tech weapons should not be given to Gadhafi's opponents.

As for the government, Gadhafi and his followers are being tackled with a further mixture of threats and promises. The dictator has been given the message that he would not be prevented from going into exile. At the same time, those around him are being encouraged to defect. And there does seem to be some movement: The flight of Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa last week was hailed as a breakthrough, while rumors that two of Gadhafi's sons, Saif al-Islam and Al-Saadi, are planning a future without their father can be interpreted as a sign of nervousness.

On Wednesday evening it was revealed that Gadhafi had written a letter to US President Barack Obama asking him to end the air strikes. It met with little success: Hilary Clinton immediately rejected the appeal out of hand and countered by demanding that the dictator go into exile.

Military Escalation a Backwards Step

But what will happen if all this fails to change the status quo? How long can the no-fly zone be maintained? Could the West come to terms with a divided country? How serious is the West about its repeated assertion that a future for Libya which involves Gadhafi and his sons is unthinkable? A divided country is regarded as unacceptable in the long run, but a ground invasion involving Western troops to resolve this split has been ruled out by all sides. An occupation of Libya was explicitly prohibited by UN Security Council Resolution 1973, and no Western or Arabic government wants to be drawn so far into the war. Nor would it be advisable, LSE Professor Gerges wrote. A military escalation could only be a backwards step -- one that would weaken the democratic movement in Libya.

No one has so far come up with an effective formula for ending the Libyan stalemate. The Western-Arab alliance is hoping steadfastedly for one of two outcomes: Either the rebels win the military conflict against all escalations, or Gadhafi voluntarily steps down. Either event would come as a surprise.


In the US, where skeptics have dominated the discussion from the start, there have already been demands for the operation, which seems to lack any strategy, to be ended immediately.

"Hoping to get lucky is no basis for US foreign policy," Doug Bandow of the libertarian Cato Institute wrote on the Huffington Post website. "The administration should begin a speedy exit from Libya. Washington doesn't need another disaster in the Middle East."

That would mean a loss of face, which no Western government wants. The crucial question is: Who has more patience, NATO or Gadhafi?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #445 on: April 13, 2011, 02:35:45 PM »

April 13, 2011 1:20 PM PrintText

U.S. doing limited airstrikes for NATO in Libya




A crew member watches a Rafale fighter jet before being catapulted for a mission over Libya from France's flagship Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier, in the Gulf of Sirte, off the Libyan coast, April 13, 2011. (AP)
Anger in the Arab World
 

.(CBS/AP)  WASHINGTON - The Pentagon revealed for the first time Wednesday that U.S. fighter jets have continued to strike Libyan air defenses after turning the mission over to NATO.


Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan said the jets were assigned to NATO and are operating under NATO command. They can be used when needed to take out enemy defenses as part of the enforcement of the no-fly zone.


CBS News National Security correspondent David Martin reported the missions, announced in an oh-by-the-way fashion by the Pentagon, have involved a handful of F-16s that have dropped a half-dozen bombs.


Separately, the U.S. has said that since the Libyan mission was turned over to NATO last week, special requests must be made for American fighters to conduct airstrikes to protect civilians. Lapan said there have been no requests for that kind of help.


Libya rebels urge U.S. to bring back bombers


Also Wednesday, two strong explosions struck the outskirts of Libya's capital as the rebel movement urged a stronger NATO-led air campaign on targets held by Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, a witness said.


The witness, a resident of the capital, Tripoli, said the blasts apparently struck near the airport, where Qaddafi has military camps and forces encircling the capital.


"Over the past days, we didn't hear any explosions except for planes flying in the sky, but no raids," said the resident, who asked that his name not be used for fear of reprisals by the government.


Complete coverage: Anger in the Arab world


The explosions could be NATO airstrikes on targets held by Qaddafi.


Libyan rebels have been pleading for more NATO airstrikes as top Western and Arab envoys gather in Qatar's capital to discuss ways to end the Libyan crisis.


Mohamed Ismail Tajouri, a 54-year-old businessman who joined the rebels in their stronghold of Benghazi, said having a rebel delegation attend the Qatar meeting amounts to key international recognition.


"We are proud of this," he told The Associated Press. "This political development is really good for the rebels but the Qaddafi regime is not normal. He is a bloody creature, he won't leave until he spills some blood."


The meeting comes as fighting on the eastern side of the country has been restricted to the occasional barrage of rockets, in contrast to the rapid advances and retreats that characterized much of the fighting there in past weeks.


Qaddafi's forces, however, continued to shell the besieged city of Misrata in recent days. International groups are warning of a dire humanitarian crisis in Misrata, Libya's third-largest city and the only city in western Libya that is still partially in the hands of rebels.



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/13/501364/main20053556.shtml#ixzz1JRR7QyU4

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #446 on: April 13, 2011, 08:21:01 PM »
Libya: US urged to return to front line

The United States was on Wednesday night facing calls to return to the front line in Libya, amid growing fears that Nato is failing to make progress against Col Muammar Gaddafi's forces.

By James Kirkup, Damien McElroy in Doha and Henry Samuel in Paris 10:02PM BST 13 Apr 2011

Rebel leaders said that Washington should reverse its decision to step back from offensive operations in Libya and once again take part in ground attacks.

Meeting in Paris, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy of France called on Nato allies to "increase the momentum" of the military intervention in Libya.

William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, hinted that the Americans should deploy more firepower, saying: "It would improve the situation if we had that greater ground strike capability overall."

After leading the first stage of the Libyan intervention, the US earlier this month withdrew its forces from offensive operations, ceding control to Nato and its Arab allies.

Britain, France and the rebels are increasingly frustrated that neither other Nato allies nor the Arab states are prepared to attack Gaddafi's forces, insisting they will only help enforce a no-fly zone.

With Britain and France bearing the burden of the ground attack operation, there are fears that the allies lack the military force to shake the Libyan regime.

Mahmoud Shamman, a spokesman for the Benghazi-based Transitional National Council, said the Nato had allowed Col Gaddafi to regain the initiative on the battlefield since it took over from the US.

"When the Americans were involved the mission was very active and it as more leaning toward protecting the civilians," he said. "Nato is very slow responding to these attacks on the civilians. We'd like to see more work toward protecting the civilians."

A French official suggested that the US should deploy its specialist ground-attack aircraft including A-10 Thunderbolt tankbusters and AC-130 Spectre gunships, assets that Britain and France lack.

"If the United States provided resources to the current operation, so much the better," the official said.

In an ITV interview, Mr Hague refused to say if he was discussing a request for more American firepower.

"I'm not going to go into individual countries about this because our discussions with them are of course confidential," he said.

The Pentagon last night said that US forces continued to attack targets in Libya, but admitted those were "air defence" sites like missile batteries, and did not include tanks and other ground forces.

In a joint statement, Mr Cameron and Mr Sarkozy agreed that said that Nato "must continue to increase the momentum of action" against Gaddafi's forces.

Stepping up his criticism of Gaddafi, the Prime Minister accused the dictator of personally ordering the "murder" of Libyan civilians, including children.

"He is murdering his own citizens, including children. The orders come directly from him."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8449063/Libya-US-urged-to-return-to-front-line.html


These Europeans are completely fucking useless. Go earn your oil.

Libyan Rebels to US: "Hey, these NATO guys kinda suck, can you start bombing again?"

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #447 on: April 13, 2011, 08:26:16 PM »
What happened to gadaffi leaving in days? 

Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #448 on: April 13, 2011, 08:27:11 PM »
What happened to gadaffi leaving in days? 

Hahaha. Right out the window alongside Obama's claim that this would be a quick "kinetic military action".  :D

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #449 on: April 14, 2011, 07:12:59 AM »
Libya Rebels Seek $2 Billion Loan, Allies Ponder Next Steps
 Source: Bloomberg


Libyan rebels want to borrow at least $2 billion to buy food, medicine, fuel and perhaps weapons as their foreign allies agreed on the need to do more to help them prevail over Muammar Qaddafi’s forces.

Members of the so-called Libyan contact group said in a statement in Qatar that they may create a “temporary financial mechanism” to finance the rebels using Libyan government assets frozen abroad.

Short-term loans are “an option on the table that we discussed” at the Qatar meeting, Ali Tarhouni, the Interim Transitional National Council’s finance minister, said in an interview in Benghazi. The borrowing, which may be for as long as two years, could be repaid when Libyan assets are unfrozen, Tarhouni said. Reserves at the rebels’ central bank in Benghazi may not be enough to cover import needs for a month, he said.

The contact group, which includes the U.S., the U.K., France and other countries lending military support, agreed at the meeting that “Qaddafi and his regime had lost all legitimacy and he must leave power, allowing the Libyan people to determine their own future,” according to a statement released yesterday after the meeting in Doha.

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-13/libyan-rebels-...