Author Topic: Obama's illegal war  (Read 66903 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #450 on: April 15, 2011, 04:10:23 AM »
U.S., allies see Libyan rebels in hopeless disarray


1 / 7 Rebel fighters launch rockets against Gaddafi forces from the front-line along the western entrance of Ajdabiyah April 14, 2011.
Credit: Reuters/Yannis Behrakis

By Mark Hosenball and Phil Stewart

WASHINGTON | Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:51pm EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Too little is known about Libya's rebels and they remain too fragmented for the United States to get seriously involved in organizing or training them, let alone arming them, U.S. and European officials say.

U.S. and allied intelligence agencies believe NATO's no-fly zone and air strikes will be effective in stopping Muammar Gaddafi's forces from killing civilians and dislodging rebels from strongholds like Benghazi, the officials say.

But the more the intelligence agencies learn about rebel forces, the more they appear to be hopelessly disorganized and incapable of coalescing in the foreseeable future.

U.S. government experts believe the state of the opposition is so grave that it could take years to organize, arm and train them into a fighting force strong enough to drive Gaddafi from power and set up a working government.

The realistic outlook, U.S. and European officials said, is for an indefinite stalemate between the rebels -- supported by NATO air power -- and Gaddafi's forces.

"At this point neither side is able to defeat the other and neither appears willing to compromise," said one U.S. official who follows the Libyan conflict closely.

"The opposition needs time to do what they need to do -- forming a government, bringing together key opposition figures, getting on the same page and building a new generation of leaders," the official said.

There is no sign the CIA or any other U.S. agency is organizing arms supplies for the rebels. But U.S. officials say privately that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are willing to provide weapons and other support to Gaddafi's foes.

There are "indications" that Qatar has begun to supply some easy-to-use weapons, including shoulder-fired anti-tank rockets, to the opposition, a U.S. official said on Thursday. Qatar's Emir Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani was meeting with President Barack Obama at the White House on Thursday.

PROLONGED STALEMATE

Pentagon officials say NATO air strikes, combined with enforcement of an arms embargo, will degrade Gaddafi's fighting ability. The hope is this may create cracks in his regime and open the way for a political solution to the crisis.

One Western official compared the no-fly zone to a greenhouse that hopefully will allow for the gradual growth of a national opposition movement in Libya that draws together the disparate rebel factions.

Several weeks ago, President Barack Obama signed a secret order -- a "covert action finding" -- authorizing the CIA to consider a range of operations to support Gaddafi's opponents.

But the order requires the CIA to seek extra "permissions" from the White House before specific measures such as providing training, money or weapons.

CIA operatives on the ground are aggressively collecting information on the rebels, their structure, leadership and military capabilities, U.S. officials said.

andreisdaman

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #451 on: April 15, 2011, 12:38:11 PM »

Obama's Women Advisers Pushed War Against Libya
fox ^ | 3/20/11 | Robert Dreyfuss, The Nation



So three or four of Obama's advisers, all women, wanted war against Libya.   We'd like to think that women in power would somehow be less prowar, but in the Obama administration at least it appears that the bellicosity is worst among Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and Samantha Power. All three are liberal interventionists, and all three seem to believe that when the United States exercises military force it has some profound, moral, life-saving character to it. Far from it.


(Excerpt) Read more at nation.foxnews.com ...


why do you think Hillary of all people wanted Obama to intervene???

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #452 on: April 15, 2011, 12:40:10 PM »
Wag the Dog   

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #453 on: April 17, 2011, 09:58:43 AM »
U.S., allies secretly seeking refuge for Gaddafi
ANI via Yahoo News Singapore ^ | Apr 17, 2011 | ANI News




Washington, Apr 17 (ANI): The United States and its allies have reportedly secretly begun seeking a country, most likely in Africa, that would be willing to give refuge to Libyan dictator Colonel Muammar Gaddafi in case he is forced out of the oil rich country by rebel forces. Intelligence reports, however, have indicated that no rebel leader has emerged as a credible successor to the Libyan dictator as of now. The New York Times reports that the search is continuing despite Gaddafi's unwillingness to give up to the demands of rebels in his country, and the Western powers.

The effort is complicated by the likelihood that he would be indicted by the International Criminal Court in The Hague for the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Scotland in 1988, and atrocities inside Libya, the paper said.

According to three Obama administration officials, one possibility is to find a country that is not a signatory to the treaty that requires countries to turn over anyone under indictment for trial by the court. "We learned some lessons from Iraq, and one of the biggest is that Libyans have to be responsible for regime change, not us. What we're simply trying to do is find some peaceful way to organize an exit, if the opportunity arises," one of the officials said.

Earlier, Gaddafi had written a three-page letter to Obama, referring him as his 'son', urging him to intervene and stop the Western air campaign against his forces.


(Excerpt) Read more at sg.news.yahoo.com ...

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #454 on: April 17, 2011, 12:36:44 PM »
The rebels aren't going to force anyone out, the only way Gadhafi is leaving is by choice or he gets dirt napped.
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Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #455 on: April 18, 2011, 08:48:30 AM »
Libyan Rebel Leader Directing NATO Airstrikes Who Once Lived Under Taliban Protection Alongside Bin Laden Killed by Gaddafi Forces

(LA Times) — He once lived under the Taliban’s protection, met with Osama bin Laden and helped found a group the U.S. has listed as a terrorist organization. He died in a secondhand U.S. military uniform, ambushed by Moammar Kadafi’s men as he cleared a road after an airstrike by his new NATO allies.

Aides to Abdul Monem Muktar Mohammed say the Libyan rebel fighter was leading a convoy of 200 cars west of this hotly contested strategic city Friday when a bullet struck him on the right side of the chest. He opened his passenger door and jumped out. A rocket-propelled grenade exploded nearby.

“Don’t wait, go,” he yelled to his men. Then he got to his feet, staggered a few steps and fell.

Mohammed’s final days were a mirror of his past, of a life that saw contradictions and intersections with U.S. policy, ones that could return to haunt the United States.

He arrived in Afghanistan in 1990 at the conclusion of the mujahedin’s silent partnership with the United States against the Soviet-backed Afghan regime. The following decades saw him become an international pariah, operating in an underground world of armed training camps and safe houses.

But with the revolt against Kadafi that started in February, he once again found himself in an uneasy alliance with the United States.

Five days before he died, with gray in his hair and bags under his eyes, Mohammed climbed a concrete tower on the outskirts of Ajdabiya and phoned in positions to the rebel government so NATO could drop bombs on Kadafi’s forces.

Putting down his Thuraya satellite phone, Mohammed waved a shiny black 9-millimeter pistol on a road filled with empty bullet casings and waited for the explosions.

A few hours later, Mohammed and his Omar Mukhtar brigade, one of the new military units officially sanctioned by the opposition government, rejoiced as blasts shook the city. A few started dancing and singing “God is great.”

“I have never been Al Qaeda now or in the future,” Mohammed said as he watched his men clap. “We are religious and ordinary people. We are Libyans fighting for Libya.”

The onetime holy warrior boasted that he even wanted a close battlefield relationship with NATO. But he also bristled at Western double standards. Why, he grumbled, does NATO so readily bomb the Taliban in Afghanistan but hesitates against Kadafi? Still, he would take any firepower he could get. He wished he had his own direct line to NATO rather than communicating through middlemen.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-qaeda-20110417,0,6153551.story



Obama thought process: They seem like pro-democracy, secular people. Let's arm them! Taliban be damned!  ::)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #456 on: April 18, 2011, 08:49:19 AM »
WTF?   Are you kidding with that?   


Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #457 on: April 18, 2011, 08:50:03 AM »
WTF?   Are you kidding with that?   



Nope. These are the people Obama, Power, Rice and Clinton have decided are worth saving, arming, funding and training.

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #458 on: April 18, 2011, 08:52:29 AM »
Nope. These are the people Obama, Power, Rice and Clinton have decided are worth saving, arming, funding and training.

The real question is what did Gadhafi do or what does he know that he a bullseye on his back all of the sudden.
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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #459 on: April 18, 2011, 08:53:17 AM »
so if the rebels lose tomorrow... what has the US accomplished?

Kadaffi is weakened, his country is torn up.  US intelligence agents are all over the place now.  We got to blow up a bunch of shit that we wanted to blow up.  if kadaffi acts up/doesn't play ball, we have thousands of new ppl on the ground in place to ice his ass.  And their air defenses are gone now.

So for under a billion dollars (you know, what boehnner spends on Kleenex during a week of budget debates), we got a much stronger position over the #5 oil producing nation in the world.  #winning ???

Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #460 on: April 18, 2011, 08:54:47 AM »
so if the rebels lose tomorrow... what has the US accomplished?

Kadaffi is weakened, his country is torn up.  US intelligence agents are all over the place now.  We got to blow up a bunch of shit that we wanted to blow up.  if kadaffi acts up/doesn't play ball, we have thousands of new ppl on the ground in place to ice his ass.  And their air defenses are gone now.

So for under a billion dollars (you know, what boehnner spends on Kleenex during a week of budget debates), we got a much stronger position over the #5 oil producing nation in the world.  #winning ???

Shut the fuck up.

You bring nothing to this thread beyond your fabricated claims (all of which have been shot the fuck down). This thread is about discussing facts, not your trashy claims that are nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to save face your God-King.

Just about reaching that point where it's not worth wasting time to read your posts anymore.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #461 on: April 18, 2011, 08:55:16 AM »
so if the rebels lose tomorrow... what has the US accomplished?

Kadaffi is weakened, his country is torn up.  US intelligence agents are all over the place now.  We got to blow up a bunch of shit that we wanted to blow up.  if kadaffi acts up/doesn't play ball, we have thousands of new ppl on the ground in place to ice his ass.  And their air defenses are gone now.

So for under a billion dollars (you know, what boehnner spends on Kleenex during a week of budget debates), we got a much stronger position over the #5 oil producing nation in the world.  #winning ???

Sad bro - really sad.   

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #462 on: April 18, 2011, 08:56:03 AM »
Shut the fuck up. You bring nothing to this thread beyond your fabricated claims (all of which have been shot the fuck down).

This thread is about discussing facts, not your trashy claims that are nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to save face your God-King.

okay, youd rather attack me than address my points?

Seriously, if the US completely pulls out tomorrow... kadaffi has a black eye, we have intel people in key places, and they're weaker and we're stronger.  With no US casualties.

Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #463 on: April 18, 2011, 08:56:17 AM »
Sad bro - really sad.  

That post is easily in his top 10 most pathetic pro-Obama lies.

okay, youd rather attack me than address my points?

Seriously, if the US completely pulls out tomorrow... kadaffi has a black eye, we have intel people in key places, and they're weaker and we're stronger.  With no US casualties.

There's nothing to address. You can't substantiate a single one of those claims and are instead trying to save face for your hero. You are the same guy who claimed Gadhafi would be gone over a month ago and yet he's still there kicking...and more than holding his own.

Give it a rest. Your lies have worn out their welcome in this thread.


Have you honestly read a SINGLE article on any of this or do you intend to continually talk out of your ass? Nothing you say can be substantiated. Not a single thing. These rebels are a fucking mess. No training, no funding, no fighting ability. Not a single leader and they're in complete disarray. The only thing keeping this close to a stale-mate is US firepower and guess what, NATO is BEGGING us to fly more missions because they can't sustain it.  ::)


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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #464 on: April 18, 2011, 08:57:00 AM »
Sad bro - really sad.  

again, tell me why i'm wrong?  ???  Or easier to just attack me?

If the US pulls out tomorrow - spending less than a billion (I think?) and getting to smash up a country led by a terrorist... how is it not worth the money?

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #465 on: April 18, 2011, 08:58:31 AM »
okay, youd rather attack me than address my points?

Seriously, if the US completely pulls out tomorrow... kadaffi has a black eye, we have intel people in key places, and they're weaker and we're stronger.  With no US casualties.

No - we look like abject failures. 

Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #466 on: April 18, 2011, 08:58:55 AM »
No - we look like abject failures. 

You mean we don't already?

"Gadhafi would be gone in a matter of days, not week or months."  ::)

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #467 on: April 18, 2011, 08:59:07 AM »
ok.  well, since ya dont feel like addressing my points, have a nice day :)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #468 on: April 18, 2011, 09:00:42 AM »
ok.  well, since ya dont feel like addressing my points, have a nice day :)

No - we made definitive statements from the get go that the mission would take "days, not weeks."   Now, over a month later, Gadaffi is winning and we look like idiots. 

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #469 on: April 18, 2011, 09:01:14 AM »
so if the rebels lose tomorrow... what has the US accomplished?

Kadaffi is weakened, his country is torn up.  US intelligence agents are all over the place now.  We got to blow up a bunch of shit that we wanted to blow up.  if kadaffi acts up/doesn't play ball, we have thousands of new ppl on the ground in place to ice his ass.  And their air defenses are gone now.

So for under a billion dollars (you know, what boehnner spends on Kleenex during a week of budget debates), we got a much stronger position over the #5 oil producing nation in the world.  #winning ???

We haven't or are we accomplishing a fucking thing, if Gadhafi stays in power, ( which he will unless he leaves willingly or gets off'd by one of his people) his stock in the ME goes way up. NATO tried to take him out and failed, this is a loose loose for the US. We either have to keep dealing with a now defiant Gadhafi, or we get some loony Islamist filling the power vacuum.
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Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #470 on: April 18, 2011, 09:01:44 AM »
ok.  well, since ya dont feel like addressing my points, have a nice day :)

I just did. Thanks for reading.


"Have you honestly read a SINGLE article on any of this or do you intend to continually talk out of your ass? Nothing you say can be substantiated. Not a single thing. These rebels are a fucking mess. No training, no funding, no fighting ability. Not a single leader and they're in complete disarray. The only thing keeping this close to a stale-mate is US firepower and guess what, NATO is BEGGING us to fly more missions because they can't sustain it."

"Have you honestly read a SINGLE article on any of this or do you intend to continually talk out of your ass? Nothing you say can be substantiated. Not a single thing. These rebels are a fucking mess. No training, no funding, no fighting ability. Not a single leader and they're in complete disarray. The only thing keeping this close to a stale-mate is US firepower and guess what, NATO is BEGGING us to fly more missions because they can't sustain it."

"Have you honestly read a SINGLE article on any of this or do you intend to continually talk out of your ass? Nothing you say can be substantiated. Not a single thing. These rebels are a fucking mess. No training, no funding, no fighting ability. Not a single leader and they're in complete disarray. The only thing keeping this close to a stale-mate is US firepower and guess what, NATO is BEGGING us to fly more missions because they can't sustain it."




This is typical of you. You get called out on your opinionated, unsubstantiated bullshit and instead of linking articles, testimony or anything to back up your point you just leave the thread. Thanks for playing.  ::)

We haven't or are we accomplishing a fucking thing, if Gadhafi stays in power, ( which he will unless he leaves willingly or gets off'd by one of his people) his stock in the ME goes way up. NATO tried to take him out and failed, this is a loose loose for the US. We either have to keep dealing with a now defiant Gadhafi, or we get some loony Islamist filling the power vacuum.

The Obama, Sarkozy and Cameron-authored op-ed this weekend laid out that Gadhafi is now a legitimate target, if I'm not mistaken (could have been that op-ed or another article I read). So not only have they flat-out lied about the reasoning behind stopping this "humanitarian crisis" but now, 2 months after the fact, they're finally ready to kill Gadhafi (not that it'll likely happen).

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #471 on: April 18, 2011, 09:06:55 AM »
Its really amazing.   I hve no love for gadaffi whatsoever - but now we turned a NFZ into a assasination hit to cover up for he incompetence of Obama issuing his statements "days not weeks" crap.   
 

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #472 on: April 18, 2011, 09:08:37 AM »
Its really amazing.   I hve no love for gadaffi whatsoever - but now we turned a NFZ into a assasination hit to cover up for he incompetence of Obama issuing his statements "days not weeks" crap.   
 

Gadhafi knows something or has some information on someone, this whole uprising is just a convenient distraction from the real end game.
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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #473 on: April 18, 2011, 09:08:44 AM »
Its really amazing.   I hve no love for gadaffi whatsoever - but now we turned a NFZ into a assasination hit to cover up for he incompetence of Obama issuing his statements "days not weeks" crap.   
 

This whole affair is one gigantic fiasco. It's embarrassing for this entire country and really shows just how out of his league 240's God-King is.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #474 on: April 18, 2011, 09:12:41 AM »
This whole affair is one gigantic fiasco. It's embarrassing for this entire country and really shows just how out of his league 240's God-King is.


The best part is that I have the Team Dildo morons attacking me on other threads who refuse to even remotely address these issues.