Author Topic: Obama's illegal war  (Read 66968 times)

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #550 on: April 25, 2011, 10:42:39 AM »
Wake up, we still have an increasingly hostile and nuclear North Korea, that worked out well ::)
Vietnam - we lost 58000 Americans to walk away and allow the communist to take over at this point it is a wash, Nam really no threat to us.
80's Afghanistan - Armed and trained AQ for all intensive purposes, that didn't come back to fuck us did it? Managed to bleed the Soviets in the process, traded one enemy that was kept in check by MAD for one that doesn't give a shit.
Desert Storm - Left Saddam in power, and surprise surprise we are back in Iraq.

Winning the hearts and minds strategy has really worked out well, so lets try it again in the ME of all places ::)

one could argue the bases there aren't designed to deal with the small-time neighbor as much as they are potential bases of operation for "real" conflicts - such as Russia or China simultaneously launching nukes at us one day.  The ability to strike Moscow from Europe and Beijing from Vietnam, before their birds even hit DC, is a huge deterrant to their launching on us.

Look at the line of bases in iraq and the similar line in afghanistan.  Perfect wall against China, india, whoever.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #551 on: April 25, 2011, 10:44:13 AM »
one could argue the bases there aren't designed to deal with the small-time neighbor as much as they are potential bases of operation for "real" conflicts - such as Russia or China simultaneously launching nukes at us one day.  The ability to strike Moscow from Europe and Beijing from Vietnam, before their birds even hit DC, is a huge deterrant to their launching on us.

Look at the line of bases in iraq and the similar line in afghanistan.  Perfect wall against China, india, whoever.


Obama does not believe anything along those lines.   

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #552 on: April 25, 2011, 10:52:21 AM »

Obama does not believe anything along those lines.   

it is my belief that neither obama, nor bush, nor clinton, nor any president makes these long-term planning decisions.  The joint chiefs do.  They don't let some wussy leader, subject to polls that change with the wind.  These bases are all over the world and ensure nobody ever takes out the USA without MAD, mutual assured destruction. 

So if you want to make this about dem/repub, you're farting in the wind dude.  it is what it is.  Those bases keep us safe against big and small threats and will be there hundreds of years from now.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #553 on: April 25, 2011, 10:59:35 AM »
it is my belief that neither obama, nor bush, nor clinton, nor any president makes these long-term planning decisions.  The joint chiefs do.  They don't let some wussy leader, subject to polls that change with the wind.  These bases are all over the world and ensure nobody ever takes out the USA without MAD, mutual assured destruction. 

So if you want to make this about dem/repub, you're farting in the wind dude.  it is what it is.  Those bases keep us safe against big and small threats and will be there hundreds of years from now.

Hey - notice how blacken and Lurker dont trust you to be the judge of our little debate?   

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #554 on: April 25, 2011, 11:34:11 AM »
one could argue the bases there aren't designed to deal with the small-time neighbor as much as they are potential bases of operation for "real" conflicts - such as Russia or China simultaneously launching nukes at us one day.  The ability to strike Moscow from Europe and Beijing from Vietnam, before their birds even hit DC, is a huge deterrant to their launching on us.

Look at the line of bases in iraq and the similar line in afghanistan.  Perfect wall against China, india, whoever.

Huh?  Are you nuts we have what 30K in the DMZ in NK what exactly is that going to do against 2.5 million if they decided to use conventional tactics? Same goes for the Russians, they will overwhelm with sheer numbers. A strike on Moscow of Beijing could more easily be carried out by subs, but that's right we cut those with that dumbass START treaty ::)

The only deterent the bases server is so the local dictators don't get to froggy, to the big boys they a nuisance at best
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andreisdaman

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #555 on: April 25, 2011, 02:08:35 PM »

Obama does not believe anything along those lines.   

he doesn't have to...the president is hostage to pentagon military strategy..if the generals say they need the bases then we will have them....its amazing how you guys try to tie everything in the world back to Obama...this shows the mental illness you guys have concerning him,,,meanwhile when its something positive, you guys say Obama has nothing to do with it...

I love laughing at you guys..keep up the good work please....you guys are hilarious!!!

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #556 on: April 25, 2011, 02:09:17 PM »
he doesn't have to...the president is hostage to pentagon military strategy..if the generals say they need the bases then we will have them....its amazing how you guys try to tie everything in the world back to Obama...this shows the mental illness you guys have concerning him,,,meanwhile when its something positive, you guys say Obama has nothing to do with it...

I love laughing at you guys..keep up the good work please....you guys are hilarious!!!

andreisdaman

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #557 on: April 25, 2011, 02:13:40 PM »
Huh?  Are you nuts we have what 30K in the DMZ in NK what exactly is that going to do against 2.5 million if they decided to use conventional tactics? Same goes for the Russians, they will overwhelm with sheer numbers. A strike on Moscow of Beijing could more easily be carried out by subs, but that's right we cut those with that dumbass START treaty ::)

The only deterent the bases server is so the local dictators don't get to froggy, to the big boys they a nuisance at best

The reason we keep small numbers of troops in these areas is to signal to those that have overwhelming might that spilling U.S. blood will automatically trigger our involvement and that involvement may not be just conventional but nuclear as well...

This poses a problem for leaders of potentially belligerent countries that any aggression towards an ally might trigger a nuclear response..which psychologically keeps these potential adversaries at bay...this strategy by the U.S., actually costs less than having divisions upon divisions of standing armies bogged down in foreign countries

Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #558 on: April 25, 2011, 02:15:19 PM »
he doesn't have to...the president is hostage to pentagon military strategy..if the generals say they need the bases then we will have them....its amazing how you guys try to tie everything in the world back to Obama...this shows the mental illness you guys have concerning him,,,meanwhile when its something positive, you guys say Obama has nothing to do with it...

I love laughing at you guys..keep up the good work please....you guys are hilarious!!!

Is or is not the POTUS the CIC?, Does the POTUS have a say in who is a member of the JCOS?
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andreisdaman

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #559 on: April 25, 2011, 02:17:19 PM »
Is or is not the POTUS the CIC?, Does the POTUS have a say in who is a member of the JCOS?

yes you are correct about this but he does not know military strategy..he depends on the generals to tell him things and explain things to him and then he goes from there and makes his decisions

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #560 on: April 25, 2011, 02:19:19 PM »
yes you are correct about this but he does not know military strategy..he depends on the generals to tell him things and explain things to him and then he goes from there and makes his decisions

Then he is not held hostage by the military strategy of the Pentagon, because his people are the ones making the strategy.
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Kazan

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #561 on: April 25, 2011, 02:24:06 PM »
The reason we keep small numbers of troops in these areas is to signal to those that have overwhelming might that spilling U.S. blood will automatically trigger our involvement and that involvement may not be just conventional but nuclear as well...

This poses a problem for leaders of potentially belligerent countries that any aggression towards an ally might trigger a nuclear response..which psychologically keeps these potential adversaries at bay...this strategy by the U.S., actually costs less than having divisions upon divisions of standing armies bogged down in foreign countries

The Korean war never ended, 1953 was a cease fire, not a surrender by either side. We keeps troops in the DMZ because we are still at war with North Korea. Not to mention the fact that we have for all intensive purposes taken over the defense of Europe.
It is the same reason we had troops in SA, the Iraq war didn't end, there was a cease fire.

But when all is said and done I believe I said basically the same thing, troops are in most places to keep the local dictator in line.
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andreisdaman

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #562 on: April 25, 2011, 02:25:09 PM »
Then he is not held hostage by the military strategy of the Pentagon, because his people are the ones making the strategy.

what I meant by my statement is that the president DOES NOT CONCEPTUALIZE MILITARY DOCTRINE...the generals do so and present him with options..he then makes the final decision..but he is basically deciding on MILITARY OPTIONS not his own

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #563 on: April 25, 2011, 02:26:10 PM »
what I meant by my statement is that the president DOES NOT CONCEPTUALIZE MILITARY DOCTRINE...the generals do so and present him with options..he then makes the final decision..but he is basically deciding on MILITARY OPTIONS not his own

Andre - I will be at Webster Hall tonight to hear Schiff and Ron Paul speak.  Wanna to meet there?  I will bring my legal credentialsand drivers license andlurkers and blacken and cen delete their accounts?   

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #564 on: April 25, 2011, 02:29:44 PM »
what I meant by my statement is that the president DOES NOT CONCEPTUALIZE MILITARY DOCTRINE...the generals do so and present him with options..he then makes the final decision..but he is basically deciding on MILITARY OPTIONS not his own

That's fine but he is going to appoint people that are going to carry out his vision of what military strategy should be employed. Every once in a while we get an LBJ who decides to be directly involved in all military planning, but for the most part the POTUS appoints people that share his point of view.
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andreisdaman

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #565 on: April 25, 2011, 02:32:56 PM »
Andre - I will be at Webster Hall tonight to hear Schiff and Ron Paul speak.  Wanna to meet there?  I will bring my legal credentialsand drivers license andlurkers and blacken and cen delete their accounts?   

WOW...I wish you would have informed me beforehand as I would have loved to have met the great 3333 in person...but I have a psychology paper I must have in by midnight tonight...listening to Ron Paul speak would have been great as well.....

I do agree that we have got to get together soon....we live nearby...we probably =need to debate in person...and I guess you can show me your credentials..but I doubt those guys will really delete their accounts,,,but at least you will have one up on them

by the way....where is Webster Hall? At Fordham University?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #566 on: April 25, 2011, 02:37:15 PM »
WOW...I wish you would have informed me beforehand as I would have loved to have met the great 3333 in person...but I have a psychology paper I must have in by midnight tonight...listening to Ron Paul speak would have been great as well.....

I do agree that we have got to get together soon....we live nearby...we probably =need to debate in person...and I guess you can show me your credentials..but I doubt those guys will really delete their accounts,,,but at least you will have one up on them

by the way....where is Webster Hall? At Fordham University?

SOHO




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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #567 on: April 25, 2011, 05:43:51 PM »
Huh?  Are you nuts we have what 30K in the DMZ in NK what exactly is that going to do against 2.5 million if they decided to use conventional tactics? Same goes for the Russians, they will overwhelm with sheer numbers. A strike on Moscow of Beijing could more easily be carried out by subs, but that's right we cut those with that dumbass START treaty ::)

The only deterent the bases server is so the local dictators don't get to froggy, to the big boys they a nuisance at best

240 is a fucking douche bag who can't substantiate any of the bullshit claims he makes. His posts in this thread belong on the CT board with the rest of the fictitious trash he conjures up from his trailer.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #568 on: April 25, 2011, 05:49:37 PM »
240 is a fucking douche bag who can't substantiate any of the bullshit claims he makes. His posts in this thread belong on the CT board with the rest of the fictitious trash he conjures up from his trailer.

i'm a dbag, no doubt about it it.  can't argue that.

Just telll me this... how many months of "Obama only helps rebels enough to draw out froces, bomb them, the lets them get slaughtered for a few weeks" will it take until you agree with me?

cause he could have helped the rebels to a win by now.  EASILY.  He keeps letting them get mauled long enough to draw out troops, then he bombs them.  Draw out the enemiy, then predator bomb their asses.

How many months of this little game until you say "wow, maybe he's just getting off on killing ppl on both sides?"

I mean, 5 years of this shit, and i think even you'd agree with me.  It's been what, 6 or 7 weeks of it?  Give me an idea here.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #569 on: April 25, 2011, 05:53:59 PM »
Months of what, dick head? Have you seen these rebels? They have NOTHING. From day one they have had NOTHING and they will continue to have NOTHING. They are incompetent, inept, inexperienced, cowardly and pathetic. There is nothing to whittle away because they have nothing of value. They are not a fighting force. They are not a military, a government or good human beings, for that matter.

They are Islamist trash not fit for existence on this planet and should be treated as such.

And no, he can't help them win because the American public will castrate him should he put US boots on the ground. It has nothing to do with his CT-laced plan and everything to do with the fact that this war, from day one, has enjoyed the lowest popular support of any military action in the last 3-4 decades. That's why this war isn't over.

Funny, though, considering you were one of the "Gadhafi will be gone in days" crowd.  ::)

Defend Obama and try to spin this shit all you want. It is going to go down as a failure no matter how hard you try.







Islamist Websites Recruiting For Jihad in Libya: “The Market of Paradise Has Opened And The Virgins Are Waiting”

(The Australian) — As the military and humanitarian quagmire in Libya deepens, a clarion call has gone out to followers of the global jihadist movement in the West.

“Who wants to join the mujahidin? The gates of jihad are open in Libya!” declares a message posted on a pro al-Qa’ida internet forum monitored by Western analysts.

The message — and countless others like it — has set off alarms in counter-terrorism circles in the West, as al-Qa’ida and its allies move to exploit the foment in the Arab world, seizing on the conflict in Libya as a new cause celebre for Islamic militants. And as yesterday’s WikiLeaks release shows, al-Qa’ida suspects freed from Guantanamo Bay are at work in Libya.

A report from the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation says internet jihadists are portraying Libya as the newest front in the global jihad against the West, in a policy dictated by al-Qa’ida’s top leaders.

“Senior leadership figures, including Ayman al-Zawahiri, have given a number of sermons concentrating almost solely on Libya and portraying it as the most fertile ground for their global movement,” says the report’s author, Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens, a research fellow at ICSR. He says Zawahiri’s call has been echoed on English-language jihadist forums.

“The Western Salafi-jihadi movement is attempting to take ownership of the rebellion on behalf of the global jihad, and is portraying anti-Gaddafi forces as mujahidin, while also encouraging Western Muslims to do all they can to reach the country and take part in a supposed jihad.”

The ICSR has monitored a stream of communications on al-Qa’ida run and backed websites and forums since the Arab spring began. A typical post says: “My brothers and sisters, we are facing a global change, Alhamdulillah [praise God]! We will see this uprising continuing in all Muslim countries and soon we will see the banner of Allah everywhere!”

The forums are full of news of the exploits of jihadist fighters who have joined “Islamic battalions” in Libya under names such as the Thunderbolt Battalion and the Islamic Army of Benghazi, and so-called exclusive pictures of fighters purporting to be mujahidin on the front lines, accompanied by messages urging new recruits to join them. They provide directions on how best to travel to Libya, along with this incentive: “The market of paradise has opened and the hoor al ayn [virgins promised to martyrs] are waiting.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/libya-ripe-for-jihads-rallying-cries/story-e6frg6z6-1226044640098


What this article forgot to mention is that these Islamists will be getting US weapons and training free of charge. Hurray!  ::)

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #570 on: April 25, 2011, 06:04:07 PM »
i agree they have nothing.

BUT IMO, their only purpose is to draw out kadaffi's army, witht he sole purpose of carpet bombing their asses from unmanned planes once they're visible, as they move in to finish the rebels.

It's actually a depiction of obama as more evil than 33 would say.. using rebels as panws to justifiably kill kadaffi's forces so the EU will have stronger position for oil prices.

i can't think the generals - who are running the war as we all know - are hapless here.  I think thye wanna see a shitload of dead libyans, PERIOD.   And so far, taht's what thye're getting.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #571 on: April 25, 2011, 06:12:26 PM »
Of course you can't produce a single article or any evidence whatsoever that this is Obama's game plan.

This is you trying to make Obama look smart and like he's a master of foreign policy. Protip: It isn't working. He is the biggest foreign policy failure this country has seen since Jimmeh "I've never met a Communist or Islamist thug I didn't love" Carter.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #572 on: April 25, 2011, 06:16:37 PM »
Of course you can't produce a single article or any evidence whatsoever that this is Obama's game plan.

This is you trying to make Obama look smart and like he's a master of foreign policy. Protip: It isn't working. He is the biggest foreign policy failure this country has seen since Jimmeh "I've never met a Communist or Islamist thug I didn't love" Carter.

how the hell would i have access to any such documents?  ???

I'm posting my theory.  let's give it time... see if it ends up correct.

i said he's a puppet of the JCOS who are doing this.  Does that make him look like a master of foreign policy?  um no.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #573 on: April 25, 2011, 06:25:55 PM »

i can't think the generals - who are running the war as we all know - are hapless here.  I think thye wanna see a shitload of dead libyans, PERIOD.   And so far, taht's what thye're getting.


Damn dude, just hit StrawMan level there.  Yep, that's exactly what the Joint Chiefs want.  ::)

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #574 on: April 25, 2011, 06:36:09 PM »

Damn dude, just hit StrawMan level there.  Yep, that's exactly what the Joint Chiefs want.  ::)

Yeah, man. It's all part of their grand plan because, you know, Libya was such a military juggernaut before this war. That Obama's a genius! ::)