Author Topic: Time to put the UAW Union in their place  (Read 13382 times)

Hereford

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #75 on: September 13, 2011, 04:31:18 PM »
management is part of the labor process, a small part that directs the rest of the labor, the real work is not done by management

Have you been in the workforce? If not for management, labor would get NOTHING done.

Labor is useless without management.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #76 on: September 13, 2011, 04:44:53 PM »
The answer is somewhere in the middle. Managment is usally clueless as the needs of most workers and the workers would destroy anyone in managment who thought their jobs were easy. It also goes the other way around. Managing isnt easy either and when there needs to be blame assigned for something not getting done its managment that is in fear of the axe all the time. I feel unions could  have their place, if the people want it and  if they didn't make CONSTANT demands that ultimatly hurt the companies bottom line and result in that same company possibly relocating and leaving the worker with nothing at all.

Muscleboy

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #77 on: September 13, 2011, 04:50:31 PM »
The answer is somewhere in the middle. Managment is usally clueless as the needs of most workers and the workers would destroy anyone in managment who thought their jobs were easy. It also goes the other way around. Managing isnt easy either and when there needs to be blame assigned for something not getting done its managment that is in fear of the axe all the time. I feel unions could  have their place, if the people want it and  if they didn't make CONSTANT demands that ultimatly hurt the companies bottom line and result in that same company possibly relocating and leaving the worker with nothing at all.

Best post today

Labor is useless without management
Management is useless without labor

tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2011, 05:48:23 PM »
labor is ineffecient without management, but they will still get things done.. even if only a little.

management is incapable of getting things done without labor.


labor> management


still, managemenr should be paid more... but not by much.



the reason america lost jobs isnt because workers demanded too much its because management wasnt satisfied with the size of profits


AC Slater

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2011, 06:15:05 PM »


the reason america lost jobs isnt because workers demanded too much its because management wasnt satisfied with the size of profits



Unsatisfied with the profits because they have to pay some meth head $30 per hour with full medical and pension benefits for turning a wrench on an assembly line.
I dont like twinks.

AC Slater

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2011, 06:23:51 PM »
WHERE DID THEY GET ALL THAT CAPITAL TO BEGIN WITH? MOST OF THE PLANETS WEALTH IS INHERETED, NOT EARNED.

WHAT ARE THE WORKERS RISKING? WHAT ARE THE WORKERS SACRIFICING IS THE CORRECT QUESTION. BETTER YET... WHAT ARE THE INVESTORS RISKING? SURE MAYBE MILLIONS,  BUT AS A % OF THEIR TOTAL WORTH ?  OK SO ITS POSSIBLE ITS THEIR ENTIRE NET WORTH.. AND EVEN THEN.. WHAT ARE THEY RISKING.. THEY ARE RISKING LOSING THEIR LIFE OF LUXURY AND HAVING TO RESORT TO THE LIFE OF THE AVERAGE MAN, THE LABORER WHO MADE THEM AL THAT MONEY TO BEGIN WITH... YA, BIG RISK  ::)


Listen, if you don't allow the investors to earn an attractive return on their capital, then they simply wont invest it.  That means NO new factories, jobs, products, etc.  Economy comes to a screeching halt and there is no innovation.
I dont like twinks.

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2011, 08:32:08 PM »
WHERE DID THEY GET ALL THAT CAPITAL TO BEGIN WITH? MOST OF THE PLANETS WEALTH IS INHERETED, NOT EARNED.

WHAT ARE THE WORKERS RISKING? WHAT ARE THE WORKERS SACRIFICING IS THE CORRECT QUESTION. BETTER YET... WHAT ARE THE INVESTORS RISKING? SURE MAYBE MILLIONS,  BUT AS A % OF THEIR TOTAL WORTH ?  OK SO ITS POSSIBLE ITS THEIR ENTIRE NET WORTH.. AND EVEN THEN.. WHAT ARE THEY RISKING.. THEY ARE RISKING LOSING THEIR LIFE OF LUXURY AND HAVING TO RESORT TO THE LIFE OF THE AVERAGE MAN, THE LABORER WHO MADE THEM AL THAT MONEY TO BEGIN WITH... YA, BIG RISK  ::)


PEOPLE WITH SKILLS DESERVE MORE THAN PEOPLE WITHOUT, ABSOLUTELY.. BUT THE MARGIN BETWEEN THEIR PAY SHOULD NEVER BE MORE THAN SAY 100-200%..  WE HAVE CEOS MAKING 10,000% MORE THAN THE LABORERS AND EVEN MORE IN SOME SITUATIONS... COMPLETELY UNFAIR

WHATS THE VALUE IN GETTING AN EDUCATION IF YOUR ONLY GOING TO GET PAID A LITTKLE BIT MORE THAN THE LABORERS? UMM... YOU GET TO SIT IN AN OFFICE ALL DAY FEELING IMPORTANT MAKING DECISIONS INSTEAD OF DOING WHAT YOUR TOLD OUT IN A FACTORY DOING MANUAL LABOR... YA, THATS A HUGE BENEFIT YOU DUMB FUCK


YOU CONSERVATIVE FUCKHEADS ARE TRULY SIMPLE
the workers arent sacrificing anything more than the management...and they risk nothing...

you idiot shit head investors arent all millionaires....you own stock or bonds? have a 401k?

THEN YOUR AN INVESTOR YOU MORON!!!!

why do you think companies go public you fucktard?

TO RAISE CAPITAL!!! you think only millionaires buy their stock?

what a fucking tool you are...

enroll in a finance class next semester dizzle.

how did you come up with your arbitrary 100-200% difference?

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2011, 08:40:01 PM »
The reason management gets paid more is b/c their individual day to day duties have a MUCH bigger impact on the value of the company than an individual laborer.

One wrong decision by a CEO, CFO, VP etc can cost the company a huge amount of money. One wrong decison by a laborer may cost the company money but nothing in comparison to the potential loss from the managements decision.

Same goes for profit....This is why they get paid more b/c their decisions have a much bigger impact on the bottom line of the company then laborers.

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2011, 08:43:13 PM »
yes without laborer the company wouldnt produce anything...but there are tons of ppl that can do manual labor. Only a small percentage are qualified to make decisions on the level of a CEO/CFO

Supply and demand bro, surely you understand this from your econ class. Demand for labor is low and supply for it is high, what happens to the price?

AC Slater

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #84 on: September 13, 2011, 09:49:55 PM »
yes without laborer the company wouldnt produce anything...but there are tons of ppl that can do manual labor. Only a small percentage are qualified to make decisions on the level of a CEO/CFO

Supply and demand bro, surely you understand this from your econ class. Demand for labor is low and supply for it is high, what happens to the price?


While dizzle may be ignorant, I believe he does understand econ 101.  He however decides to disregard the natural laws of supply and demand and prefer to side with the 'moral' aspect.  I think this is mainly because he knows he won't ever get to an executive or VP position, and likes to hate on those that do.
I dont like twinks.

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2011, 03:39:52 AM »
While dizzle may be ignorant, I believe he does understand econ 101.  He however decides to disregard the natural laws of supply and demand and prefer to side with the 'moral' aspect.  I think this is mainly because he knows he won't ever get to an executive or VP position, and likes to hate on those that do.
Exactly his stance is based on his idea of "fairness" b/c he thinks its unfair for the higher ups and investors to make so much more than the ppl below. I think its unfair that labor doesnt risk anything while investors and mgmt with stock options as compensation risk a butt load.

What type of industry are you AC if you dont mind me asking?

Im on a pretty similar path BS in finance going for my MBA concentrating in finance.

tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2011, 11:01:14 AM »
Unsatisfied with the profits because they have to pay some meth head $30 per hour with full medical and pension benefits for turning a wrench on an assembly line.
  ::) even if that was the case, which it isnt (show me one example of a job where people got paid 30 dollars per hour with full medical and pension without drug testing and without any skills),  it still would not make it right for a company to outsource. 

as long as a company is making a penny of profit they have an obligation to remain with the workers and the community they started in.

the reason why the world is in such a shitty place right now is because of greedy rich people dominating the political realm..   america became a great country because we had good manufacturing jobs that paid well enough so that any man who desired to could get a job in a factory somewhere and be able to provide for his family.  now days we dont have that option.  hell id love to have a job in a factory making 10-15 dollars an hour, but the only job i cant get is at a fast food or retail store making minimum wage, barely getting any hours, with no benefits. the jobs available to the average american barely cover their gas bill to get to work and back.

you need to re evaluate your world view. its not the ultra rich who have the power. they have the resources. but the people have the power. we need to educate everyone on the realitiesof our system and force the owners of the means fo production to start producing at home, with good wages and benefits, and once we are bakc on our feet we can allow expansion back overseas, BUT ONLY UNDER THE CONDITION THAT THOSE PEOPLE OVERSEAS ALSO GET A GOOD WAGE, BENEFITS, AND ARE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT TO THE SAME REGULATIONS AS OUR COMPANIES.  protecting the common man and th environment are the two most important roles the government has to fulfill... catering to the rich is not


Listen, if you don't allow the investors to earn an attractive return on their capital, then they simply wont invest it.  That means NO new factories, jobs, products, etc.  Economy comes to a screeching halt and there is no innovation.
first, there are ways around that. blocking outsourcing, heavy tariffs, lower tax rates on consumers to boost demand, etc. secondly, fuck investors. nobody has the right to mess with the prosperity of the globe. i dont care how you inhereted your money, who worked for it, what you think you have a right to... the world resources, the worlds wealth, belongs to.. the world!  not to any individual. you can have your own possesiions that your personally worked for, within reason.  anyone who is obstructing progress by holding onto vast amounts of resources that could be usedto make a big difference for the people of the planet ought to be forced to release those resources into the hands of the many, for the good of all.   

stop being a pessimistic cynic who cant think about issues with an ideological idealism, start thinking about ways government can radically change things for the better, and dont let arbitrary principles of what you think appropriate government behavior is stop you from coming to necessary conclusions.

tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2011, 11:04:14 AM »
Exactly his stance is based on his idea of "fairness" b/c he thinks its unfair for the higher ups and investors to make so much more than the ppl below. I think its unfair that labor doesnt risk anything while investors and mgmt with stock options as compensation risk a butt load.

investors risk becoming laborers. laborers sacrifice thier lives for pennies on the dollar.

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2011, 03:37:03 PM »
investors risk becoming laborers. laborers sacrifice thier lives for pennies on the dollar.
so money is meaningless then?

if you feel that they arent risking anything by putting up their money then why are you so mad about them getting more of the profit?

investors sacrifice their money so companies can buy equipment and hire laborers to build or serve...

managers, CEO's, CFO's etc work much longer hours than laborers do my friend...whos sacrificiing their lives when laborers get cut at 40 hours a week and the management works 60-80?

AC Slater

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2011, 05:00:03 PM »
Exactly his stance is based on his idea of "fairness" b/c he thinks its unfair for the higher ups and investors to make so much more than the ppl below. I think its unfair that labor doesnt risk anything while investors and mgmt with stock options as compensation risk a butt load.

What type of industry are you AC if you dont mind me asking?

Im on a pretty similar path BS in finance going for my MBA concentrating in finance.

I work in risk management for an auto finance company.  My degrees were in math and finance, but I am just doing stats all day in SAS.
I dont like twinks.

tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2011, 06:30:46 PM »
so money is meaningless then?



theres no point in replying anymore if your stupid enough to think that is in any way extractable from my comments

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2011, 06:38:38 PM »
theres no point in replying anymore if your stupid enough to think that is in any way extractable from my comments
LOL well please clear it up brain child

youre the one that thinks that investors only risk becoming laborers. You think that their investment of money is somehow inconsequential.

You also think that laborers sacrifice their lives, what do you think management is doing?

baking cakes and flying fucking kites?

fact is management works a lot more hours than labor does. At the end of the day labor gets to go home and forget about their jobs and many get cut at 40 hours b/c they get paid hourly. They dont take their jobs home with them the same way management(ceo's, cfo's, vp's etc.) do. They dont work 60-80 hours a week, every week to get their jobs done. 

so please dizzle explain youre feelings that the investors only real risk is becoming laborers...::)


tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2011, 06:46:33 PM »

youre the one that thinks that investors only risk becoming laborers. You think that their investment of money is somehow inconsequential


their investments are not inconsequential to the economy as a whole but the risks associated with their investment , worst case scenario, only result in them having to work for a living. hell, they might not even have to become a laborer, since most investors have an education or at least some well connected friends anyways.

You also think that laborers sacrifice their lives, what do you think management is doing?

baking cakes and flying fucking kites?

fact is management works a lot more hours than labor does. At the end of the day labor gets to go home and forget about their jobs and many get cut at 40 hours b/c they get paid hourly. They dont take their jobs home with them the same way management(ceo's, cfo's, vp's etc.) do. They dont work 60-80 hours a week, every week to get their jobs done. 

first of all management is brain work, not physical work. using your mind is something very different than using your body. most people are using their minds all day anyways. and while some managers might work endless hours,  the majority dont. 

so please dizzle explain youre feelings that the investors only real risk is becoming laborers...::)

what else are they risking? if they lose their money, they have to work. worst case scenario.


fucking brain washed idiot

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2011, 07:02:24 PM »
LMFAO im brainwashed? you uneducated moron...

you do realize that if you own stock youre an investor right?

do you feel you embody the description of the investor you described?

and yes dizzle the managers you want to demonize...the majority do work many more hours than your common laborer.

Brain work is just as tiresome and even more frustrating then manual labor...TRUST FUCKTARD ive done both....id much rather do mindless manual labor than sit and stare at a computer creating budgets, doing analysis, making projects etc...

serious question dizzle, what is your work experience look like? you dont have to tell us where but give us an idea of your previous and current job titles and discriptions.

tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #94 on: September 14, 2011, 07:22:47 PM »
you must be really stupid if you prefer manual labor to intellectual 'labor'  ;D


not demonizing management, just not idolozing them like your dumbass  ;D


stock owners are investors, thats very wise observation you have there.  ;D

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2011, 07:34:44 PM »
you must be really stupid if you prefer manual labor to intellectual 'labor'  ;D


not demonizing management, just not idolozing them like your dumbass  ;D


stock owners are investors, thats very wise observation you have there.  ;D

LOL so more slogans and mantras and no substance?

that education is doing you well... :D :D :D(I can be sarcastic too dummy)

so no rebuttles to my points and no answer to your previous and current work...sounds about right for someone backed into a corner with idiotic talking points.  ;D :D ;D :D ;)

tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #96 on: September 14, 2011, 07:38:13 PM »
theres nothing to rebuttle against, you think by kissing the ass of the ultra rich they will somehow get up the desire to start sharing their wealth, which of course will never happen no matter how much you give them.. they only hoard , they dont share

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #97 on: September 14, 2011, 07:42:23 PM »
theres nothing to rebuttle against, you think by kissing the ass of the ultra rich they will somehow get up the desire to start sharing their wealth, which of course will never happen no matter how much you give them.. they only hoard , they dont share
HAHAHHAHAHHAHA, this is the funniest shit ive ever read from you by far.

Im not kissing their ass any more than your sucking the cock of the poor and uneducated.

you seem to have missed the point of my posts, which is amazing seeing as your such an intelligent and educated business professional.

The point is that I DONT CARE IF THEY SHARE THEIR WEALTH YOU DUMB FUCK...BC IM PUTTING MYSELF INTO A POSITION TO GET MY OWN!!!!

I suggest you do the same and quit bitching and moaning how ppl who mow yards should get half of what the company makes  ;D :D ;) :D ;D :D ;) :)

tbombz

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #98 on: September 14, 2011, 08:10:01 PM »
  ::)  without government regulations and unionization it would be impossible for you to make your own wealth

learn some history idiot

tonymctones

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Re: Time to put the UAW Union in their place
« Reply #99 on: September 14, 2011, 08:21:04 PM »
 ::)  without government regulations and unionization it would be impossible for you to make your own wealth

learn some history idiot
LMFAO so you think im against regulations and giving workers rights?

again youve missed the point of my post which is again astounding seeing as your business experience and education alone means your intelligence far surpasses my own.

I think regulation can be good, I think workers are entitled to rights as well...

I dont think that someone doing mindless work with very little responsibility and effect to the company. A person who takes no risk, and isnt invested in the company monetarily has the right to make close to a person whos actions directly impact the bottom line of the company. Whos income is largely based on how the companies value increase or decreases as a result of their decisions and who has a shit ton more responsibility deserves to.

any other talking points you want me to dismantle while im at it cumdrizzle?

you know whats funny? I spell checked this post and cumdrizzle didnt get hit...LMFAO