Disgusted - tell us about your training strategies

[First Blood]

Disgusted: What types of rows do you like? Do you like barbell rows or do you prefer more isolated chest supported rows?

[Disgusted]

One arm DB rows are great but you need to find that groove that best hits the lat. It's tuff to describe without showing you. I also liked to do bent rows on a block ala Columbo years ago.

[cephissus]

Thanks for not putting in that "for your age" qualifier. I still don't think of myself as 51 years old. I certainly don't act it though I'm not sure that's a good thing. I mean, I'm flirting with a 17 yr old at work. She even asked me if I would "do her" if she were legal. I said that I would "Do her" and "Do her hard. Very hard." Then she said I would have to wait until November. lol!

When her dad, who is about five years younger than me, came by to pick her up and said "Hi!" to me like he does everyday. It just felt different. Poor guy. That's why I'm glad I don't have kids. Especially a daughter.

pics?

[cephissus]

thats what intuition would lead you to but in my experience the best naturals are the guys who work out like crazy, going to failure every set, training 5-7 days a week.

i didnt quote your other post cuz i dont really disagree with anything you said i just think its better to stay away from failure and do more sets as oposed to trying to hit failure and doing one set.

Any chance these guys are young?  I worked out like this... no one at my university gym worked out harder than me.  In fact, no one came close.  And then I crashed hard... really hard.

[tbombz]

Disgusted: What types of rows do you like? Do you like barbell rows or do you prefer more isolated chest supported rows?

pulldowns for width, bb rows for thickness.

Any chance these guys are young?  I worked out like this... no one at my university gym worked out harder than me.  In fact, no one came close.  And then I crashed hard... really hard.

maybe its just genetics, some guys can handle tons of training.. check out the physiques on most serious athletes.. most of em are ripped up.. with enough muscle to make the average person go "wow"..  i know when i first started working out i had excellent results training that way.. stopped growing after about 2 years but kept all my size and got leaner while training that way... only since ive been juicing have i experienced overtraining and benefitted from decreased intensity/volume..  in the end you just gotta do what works best for you.. try out some different things

[First Blood]

One arm DB rows are great but you need to find that groove that best hits the lat. It's tuff to describe without showing you. I also liked to do bent rows on a block ala Columbo years ago.

Thanks! What is your opinion on Yates style BB rows? The line of pull is kinda weird on those (compared to for example old school 90 degree rows).

[First Blood]

pulldowns for width, bb rows for thickness.
 

Pulldowns are good for width but rows can definately make the back wider too as they also hit lats (...although it depends on how you pull....lower abs vs chest etc)

[tbombz]

Thanks! What is your opinion on Yates style BB rows? The line of pull is kinda weird on those (compared to for example old school 90 degree rows).

two completely different exercises. 90 degree rows focus on upper back.. rohboids, traps, rear delts. 45 degree rows focus on lats.

[Disgusted]

Thanks! What is your opinion on Yates style BB rows? The line of pull is kinda weird on those (compared to for example old school 90 degree rows).


Done them and like them, but don't go heavy at first. In fact go VERY light to learn the move. There is a very hard peak contraction if done right, but most will never realize it because they go too heavy.

[tbombz]

Pulldowns are good for width but rows can definately make the back wider too as they also hit lats (...although it depends on how you pull....lower abs vs chest etc)

eh, yes .. but not nearly to the degree pulldowns do. rows focus more on overall lat thickness.

[First Blood]

two completely different exercises. 90 degree rows focus on upper back.. rohboids, traps, rear delts. 45 degree rows focus on lats.

See my previous post.

[First Blood]

Thanks! What is your opinion on Yates style BB rows? The line of pull is kinda weird on those (compared to for example old school 90 degree rows).


Done them and like them, but don't go heavy at first. In fact go VERY light to learn the move. There is a very hard peak contraction if done right, but most will never realize it because they go too heavy.

Thank you for your answer. Have you ever tried one of those old school nautilus pullover machines? I would love to try one of those!

[First Blood]

There will be plenty of trapezius involevment in 45 degree rows. More upper trapz than middle trapz tho. I believe that you can divide traps into 4 different 'sections' (1-4).

[Disgusted]

Thank you for your answer. Have you ever tried one of those old school nautilus pullover machines? I would love to try one of those!


Yes many times. Mixed feelings about that one. Had a hard time feeling it. Nautilus also made a pulldown machine that was one of those pre-exhaust machines. The first part out it was very nice. You did that exercise first to pre-exhaust before the pulldowns. things has cool as Hell. I would bu one in a sec if I could find one.

[First Blood]

Thank you for your answer. Have you ever tried one of those old school nautilus pullover machines? I would love to try one of those!


Yes many times. Mixed feelings about that one. Had a hard time feeling it. Nautilus also made a pulldown machine that was one of those pre-exhaust machines. The first part out it was very nice. You did that exercise first to pre-exhaust before the pulldowns. things has cool as Hell. I would bu one in a sec if I could find one.

Very neat. I know Dorian was a huge fan of nautilus pullovers and that he would often do them before pulldowns (or alternate them from workout to workout).

[pellius]

thats what intuition would lead you to but in my experience the best naturals are the guys who work out like crazy, going to failure every set, training 5-7 days a week.

i didnt quote your other post cuz i dont really disagree with anything you said i just think its better to stay away from failure and do more sets as oposed to trying to hit failure and doing one set.

Whoa, it's one thing to say what see you other guys doing and the results they're getting and your personal experience. You can't compare yourself to anybody else. All, or as much as possible, variables must be consistent. And you can never be sure what others are doing when not in the gym. JRod and Faildo claim they are natural. I don't believe it for a second.

And just to be clear, HIT was never about doing just one set per body part. Jones never advocated that, never had Casey do it and even Mentzer during his sane days never did that. In fact one of his chest routines was, after warm ups (never sure how he did or defined those), was one set on the pec deck followed immediately with incline press, then repeat for a total of two cycles, four sets total, ending with a set of cable flies. All with intensity variables. That's still pretty much the basic program I still follow. Super set an isolation exercise with a compound exercise, two cycles.  
  

[tbombz]

Whoa, it's one thing to say what see you other guys doing and the results they're getting and your personal experience. You can't compare yourself to anybody else. All, or as much as possible, variables must be consistent. And you can never be sure what others are doing when not in the gym. JRod and Faildo claim they are natural. I don't believe it for a second.

And just to be clear, HIT was never about doing just one set per body part. Jones never advocated that, never had Casey do it and even Mentzer during his sane days never did that. In fact one of his chest routines was, after warm ups (never sure how he did or defined those), was one set on the pec deck followed immediately with incline press, then repeat for a total of two cycles, four sets total, ending with a set of cable flies. All with intensity variables. That's still pretty much the basic program I still follow. Super set an isolation exercise with a compound exercise, two cycles.  
  

i think your probably overtraining then. the only dude i know who trains h.i.t and has success with it only does ONE set after a few very mild warm ups. and he is a fucking beast, walks around at 5'8'' 240 9-10% bodyfat year round.

[First Blood]

Disgusted: Do you believe in heavy barbell and dumbbell curls or do you prefer more isolation style lifting for biceps (BB/db preacher curls or similar machines etc)?

[Disgusted]

"That's still pretty much the basic program I still follow. Super set an isolation exercise with a compound exercise, two cycles."
 

Do this all the time and love it.

[Disgusted]

Disgusted: Do you believe in heavy barbell and dumbbell curls or do you prefer more isolation style lifting for biceps (BB/db preacher curls or similar machines etc)?

Still have no idea why I can not quote anyone on my Mac. Anyway, used to do all diffrent things years ago, but in reality the bicep has such a short contraction range anything will do so I personally do more machines, but occasionally DBs for variety.

[pellius]

two completely different exercises. 90 degree rows focus on upper back.. rohboids, traps, rear delts. 45 degree rows focus on lats.

Wrong again. Amazing how you could get simple concepts wrong. Look at the line of motion in those movements at various angle. At you start to straighten up, decreasing the angle, the contracting muscles move up from lower lat to upper lat and traps until eventually when you are standing completely straight up you are essentially doing an upright row which is a trap and side delt movement and the lats are no longer engaged.

Because I tweaked my lat on the mats I wasn't able to train lats but I had no problem doing upright row movements Kai Green style (wide grip).

[First Blood]

Disgusted: Do you believe in heavy barbell and dumbbell curls or do you prefer more isolation style lifting for biceps (BB/db preacher curls or similar machines etc)?

Still have no idea why I can not quote anyone on my Mac. Anyway, used to do all diffrent things years ago, but in reality the bicep has such a short contraction range anything will do so I personally do more machines, but occasionally DBs for variety.

Once more, thank you. I will stop bugging you for now. I will be back tomorrow tho!  (if you don't mind)

[tbombz]

Wrong again. Amazing how you could get simple concepts wrong. Look at the line of motion in those movements at various angle. At you start to straighten up, decreasing the angle, the contracting muscles move up from lower lat to upper lat and traps until eventually when you are standing completely straight up you are essentially doing an upright row which is a trap and side delt movement and the lats are no longer engaged.

Because I tweaked my lat on the mats I wasn't able to train lats but I had no problem doing upright row movements Kai Green style (wide grip).

LOL

no

if you tried doing barbell rows standing straight up you wouldnt be able to

when you lean farther forward the bar moves farther out in front of you, bringing the line of motion up through your upper back. as you stand more upright the bar comes closer to the body, bringin the line of motion through your lower lats.

[Disgusted]

First Blood, I don't mind at all. 

[pellius]

"That's still pretty much the basic program I still follow. Super set an isolation exercise with a compound exercise, two cycles."
 

Do this all the time and love it.

Yes, Jones use to say "Train your muscles anaerobically and you body aerobically at the same time." That's why he insisted that you keep moving from one exercise to another as quickly as you can without compromising anaerobic intensity. But I don't think this is ideal for pure bodybuilding but more for athletic conditioning. Boyer Cole once remarked that he needed a bit of time, even just 15-20 seconds to focus and psyche up for his next set. He couldn't do that with Jones hovering around him telling him to keep moving.