Author Topic: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.  (Read 163730 times)

hench

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #525 on: November 12, 2011, 02:10:17 PM »
Got to agree, triceps are a tough one. For a while I was doing seated triceps extension variations frequently, they hit my tri's well and the aching next day was intense so they had zoned in on the required muscle.
But I gained alot of pain in my elbows too. I was constantly aware of a dull ache all the time and they were so sensitive if I knocked them the pain was unbelievable.
I've laid off those kind of movements for months now and I'm pain free, never going back.
I also started to get pointier elbows, Chris Dickerson syndrome.
Ropo makes a lot of statements about the effectiveness or otherwise of various machines. Listen, I am a designer of gym equipment. If you think it is easy then have a go at designing something original and new. Talk about 2% difference is pure speculation.....in polite terms you don't know what you are talking about.

Things might look similar but could be substantially different if compared properly. You don't want to mess around with dangerous exercises for the triceps because it is too easy to damage the connective tissue and you can end up with sore elbows that is more or less permanent. I can tell you variations of tennis elbow is no joke. If you do standing French presses with a barbell you can get sore elbows. Experience will tell you which exercises to avoid and which are okay. Sometimes okay exercises get to be dangerous if heavy weights are used. Little things like arm pads and side pads can make all the difference in the world. Why? Well, believe it or not almost all people cheat doing exercises in the gym. There are two things fuelling the lack of good form in exercises. One is the ego which sees just about everyone trying to use big weights so they look strong. The other is the belief that using heavier weights will result in larger muscles. This is only partly true. The requirement is that the target muscle is actually lifting the resistance.

Two days ago in my gym I found 2 young guys doing the lying triceps extensions. The shorter bloke was using 10 X 5kg plates. He wasn't a huge guy so I told him there was no way he could use that amount of weight. So he proceeded to show me that he could. Fair dinkum, the guy was doing 1/3 range reps and his elbows were sliding sideways. Also, his shoulders were rising up. His body wasn't in a strong position, either. So I got him to reduce the load to 6 plates and have another go. He was struggling to do the reps. Eventually, after several adjustments on the machine, he was successfully doing 5 plates! He could feel the difference and now appreciates how to use the machine and get some results. His mate was taller and he ended up using 4 plates instead of 7. I told both that if they could genuinely lift 10 plates for 10 reps they would have much bigger arms.....18" cold.

I solved the problem of the body rising during triceps pressdowns by installing a bar that allows the user to put his foot under and that keeps him from rising. Made that in the early 1980s. Previously we used a heavy dumbbell to do the same thing.


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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #526 on: November 12, 2011, 02:23:24 PM »
Triceps pressdowns are safe for the elbows. Warm up with high reps on light weights for a few sets to pump the arms up. When pumped you can then train the triceps heavier. Most barbell work lying supine on a bench are dangerous exercises. So called skull crunchers will destroy the elbows. If you have previous tender elbows from throwing javelin or footballs or baseballs you will aggravate the tenderness when you train triceps. If you do the lying triceps exercise as shown in this thread you will be okay. That seems weird because it is also an isolation exercise. Lots of high rep light sets are required here. Make sure you don't rub the elbow on the pads. Avoid contact when doing biceps curls on benches, too, because the sheath will be damaged. Most biceps machines are badly designed because the pads are under the elbow joint. No one puts pads under the knees on the leg curl machines so should avoid doing a similar thing with the elbows on triceps and biceps machines. If more designers were experienced bodybuilders we wouldn't have these problems.

dj181

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #527 on: November 12, 2011, 02:32:24 PM »
I told both that if they could genuinely lift 10 plates for 10 reps they would have much bigger arms.....

Exactly, and that right there is why your arms have gotten bigger, because you are now training with greater training loads, not because of DOMS.

Also, did your torso get bigger from only training arms, like you claimed that it would?

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #528 on: November 12, 2011, 02:37:09 PM »
The DOMS part is a requirement of continuous, rapid growth. This is now established as a fact with me. The rapid growth has made me stronger.

Progressive resistance has always been part of the hypertrophy process. What I am doing goes against what is believed about recovery and growth.

My whole upper body has grown as well. Back feels wide and my chest is firming up. Most don't believe this but how many have tried training only arms for

two months? I doubt bodybuilders would even dare attempt such a protocol for fear they would lose precious size elsewhere on their torsos.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #529 on: November 12, 2011, 02:40:07 PM »
The DOMS part is a requirement of continuous, rapid growth. This is now established as a fact with me. The rapid growth has made me stronger.

Progressive resistance has always been part of the hypertrophy process. What I am doing goes against what is believed about recovery and growth.

My whole upper body has grown as well. Back feels wide and my chest is firming up. Most don't believe this but how many have tried training only arms for

two months? I doubt bodybuilders would even dare attempt such a protocol for fear they would lose precious size elsewhere on their torsos.


Not even close.

hench

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #530 on: November 12, 2011, 02:49:12 PM »
Triceps pushdowns were good for me when I could get to a gym, train at home these days
Triceps pressdowns are safe for the elbows. Warm up with high reps on light weights for a few sets to pump the arms up. When pumped you can then train the triceps heavier. Most barbell work lying supine on a bench are dangerous exercises. So called skull crunchers will destroy the elbows. If you have previous tender elbows from throwing javelin or footballs or baseballs you will aggravate the tenderness when you train triceps. If you do the lying triceps exercise as shown in this thread you will be okay. That seems weird because it is also an isolation exercise. Lots of high rep light sets are required here. Make sure you don't rub the elbow on the pads. Avoid contact when doing biceps curls on benches, too, because the sheath will be damaged. Most biceps machines are badly designed because the pads are under the elbow joint. No one puts pads under the knees on the leg curl machines so should avoid doing a similar thing with the elbows on triceps and biceps machines. If more designers were experienced bodybuilders we wouldn't have these problems.

hench

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #531 on: November 12, 2011, 02:53:47 PM »
surely the difference here is that you haven't trained properly for many years so you have totally shocked your body, growth is expected.
Whereas a bodybuilder regularly training would surely lose size in other areas but perhaps stay toned in some bodyparts.
The DOMS part is a requirement of continuous, rapid growth. This is now established as a fact with me. The rapid growth has made me stronger.

Progressive resistance has always been part of the hypertrophy process. What I am doing goes against what is believed about recovery and growth.

My whole upper body has grown as well. Back feels wide and my chest is firming up. Most don't believe this but how many have tried training only arms for

two months? I doubt bodybuilders would even dare attempt such a protocol for fear they would lose precious size elsewhere on their torsos.


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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #532 on: November 12, 2011, 02:59:24 PM »
Many swear by triceps pressdowns but they are not that good compared to the lying extensions. My own experience led me to the DOMS theory. I was having a go at getting my arms big again back in 1998. So I was using pressdowns and was applying mechanical tension until the muscle was shaking. When my arms reached a bit over 17 inches the growth stopped. What the heck was this? So I had to do something different. Imagine my surprise when I got very sore from doing the lying extensions. How was that possible when I was training triceps severely and brutally? So a light went on in my brain. I wondered what would happen if I could keep my triceps sore. The result was rapid growth. This went against Hans Selye's theory of Stress. I shouldn't be getting stronger but I was.

I concluded that triceps pressdowns were not an effective triceps exercise. The lying extensions put the triceps in a stretched position and that helps them grow when trained hard. The pads contain the arms and therefore the user can exert maximum force using the triceps alone. Well, that is what should happen. Guys still manage to cheat and I see their shoulders rising and the arms moving apart. If your brain can't keep your body doing the right thing re putting severe mechanical tension on the triceps then they are simply not going to grow.

Primemuscle

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #533 on: November 12, 2011, 03:01:22 PM »
you look familiar

You are kidding, right? Sure we are probably close in age, both of us are either bald or shave our heads, we are both tanned, then there are the white beards and goatees. Aside from these similarities, our musculature is different, i.e. our pecs have different insertion points. However, I am flattered that you see a similarity because I see me as being somewhat less in shape then my "doppelganger".

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #534 on: November 12, 2011, 03:05:14 PM »
surely the difference here is that you haven't trained properly for many years so you have totally shocked your body, growth is expected.
Whereas a bodybuilder regularly training would surely lose size in other areas but perhaps stay toned in some bodyparts.

Hench, are you capable of learning something new? You seem to want to fit everything into your belief system. I have a theory about anti-aging that requires that I try to stimulate growth when I train and I have been doing this for over a decade now. What I haven't been doing is consistently training. What I am doing now resembles training but I am actually triggering hypertrophy each workout.

When you are doing what is required to rapidly grow your other muscles surrounding the arms will also grow because they are being used to hold you steady, etc. I train to the limit on every set. My belief is that you have to give the arms a reason to grow. You can't do just anything and expect rapid hypertrophy.

dj181

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #535 on: November 12, 2011, 03:12:44 PM »
So you do one exercise for triceps and on exercise for biceps, right?

What are your strength increases or both exercises?

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #536 on: November 12, 2011, 03:17:11 PM »
Now I understand why Vince Basile is the laughing stock of GB.
Team Pat Banana

hench

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #537 on: November 12, 2011, 03:21:49 PM »
Always capable of learning something new Vince. I can see why you are growing but I struggle to see how someone who has trained consistently hitting all areas regularly could continue making gains anywhere apart from the bodypart they are hitting.
Would be interesting if you could get one of your gym regulars who's doing a complete body routine to drop what he's doing and follow your new program...
Hench, are you capable of learning something new? You seem to want to fit everything into your belief system. I have a theory about anti-aging that requires that I try to stimulate growth when I train and I have been doing this for over a decade now. What I haven't been doing is consistently training. What I am doing now resembles training but I am actually triggering hypertrophy each workout.

When you are doing what is required to rapidly grow your other muscles surrounding the arms will also grow because they are being used to hold you steady, etc. I train to the limit on every set. My belief is that you have to give the arms a reason to grow. You can't do just anything and expect rapid hypertrophy.


Primemuscle

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #538 on: November 12, 2011, 03:29:07 PM »
Always capable of learning something new Vince. I can see why you are growing but I struggle to see how someone who has trained consistently hitting all areas regularly could continue making gains anywhere apart from the bodypart they are hitting.
Would be interesting if you could get one of your gym regulars who's doing a complete body routine to drop what he's doing and follow your new program...

I don't buy the idea that training one muscle group will significantly affect all other muscle groups as in training triceps and biceps, noticeably affecting one's torso musculature. However, some exercises have a greater impact on one's whole body than others, for example, squats, bench presses, dead lifts and overhead presses. I think I will continue to train all of my muscles with a variety of exercises. When I train triceps I do no less than three different exercises, same for biceps. My thinking is each exercise hits the muscle in a different way. Plus, this variety keeps working out more interesting.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #539 on: November 12, 2011, 03:34:24 PM »
Bodybuilders are NEVER going to abandon what they believe. Arthur Jones gave up on them and for good reason. The lads in my gym have their own beliefs and I allow them to do their own thing as long as they don't wreck the place. If I were to take a guy who trains all bodyparts and get him to train only arms for a month what would happen to the rest of his upper body? Well, most would stay the same size or close enough that it wouldn't be noticed. In other words, the other muscles will not shrink just because you aren't directly training them. You have to appreciate that my method is very demanding on the body. You are not fooling around because the bigger you get the harder it is to generate more size. The effort required seems to increase in a geometric way. When you have to train this hard I can assure you the other muscles will be involved in the workouts and will keep their size. Think about how most of the muscles are attached to the shoulder area and you can see that doing one part must impact on the adjacent muscles.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #540 on: November 12, 2011, 03:39:26 PM »
Bodybuilders are NEVER going to abandon what they believe. Arthur Jones gave up on them and for good reason. The lads in my gym have their own beliefs and I allow them to do their own thing as long as they don't wreck the place. If I were to take a guy who trains all bodyparts and get him to train only arms for a month what would happen to the rest of his upper body? Well, most would stay the same size or close enough that it wouldn't be noticed. In other words, the other muscles will not shrink just because you aren't directly training them. You have to appreciate that my method is very demanding on the body. You are not fooling around because the bigger you get the harder it is to generate more size. The effort required seems to increase in a geometric way. When you have to train this hard I can assure you the other muscles will be involved in the workouts and will keep their size. Think about how most of the muscles are attached to the shoulder area and you can see that doing one part must impact on the adjacent muscles.
shut the fuck up seriously, do you know how fucking stupid you sound? if you brought up the idea that Ronnie Coleman stop training chest and shoulders because "the ancillary work from training arms hits those muscle groups just fine" what do you think he'd say?

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #541 on: November 12, 2011, 03:43:38 PM »
So you do one exercise for triceps and on exercise for biceps, right?

What are your strength increases or both exercises?

Yes, I superset biceps and triceps. That way I get a better pump in my arms. In both exercises I have increased the resistance by approximately 67% in about 2 months.

I can't expect the rapid strength increases to continue. In the lying triceps movement I am using 7 plates now. In the past I remember using 9 plates. So I have a way to go.

However, I am doing the exercise with the arms contained now. In the past we didn't have side pads on the lying triceps machine. The angle is higher so that will affect

how much can be lifted as well. If you are growing rapidly you can expect rapid strength increases. Just how long this rapid growth can be sustained is something I am

now finding out.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #542 on: November 12, 2011, 03:46:30 PM »
shut the fuck up seriously, do you know how fucking stupid you sound? if you brought up the idea that Ronnie Coleman stop training chest and shoulders because "the ancillary work from training arms hits those muscle groups just fine" what do you think he'd say?

Most of you guys are too thick to comprehend anything new. That is why they still use dumbbells. Do you think I am making this up as I go? No, I have discovered this to be true several times in the past and it is true today. The fact that you do not believe it doesn't make it false.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #543 on: November 12, 2011, 03:47:53 PM »
Most of you guys are too thick to comprehend anything new. That is why they still use dumbbells. Do you think I am making this up as I go? No, I have discovered this to be true several times in the past and it is true today. The fact that you do not believe it doesn't make it false.
why havent you built a great physique then? and dont show those tired old pics of you in 1970 with 16 inch arms white as a ghost.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #544 on: November 12, 2011, 03:59:38 PM »
why havent you built a great physique then? and dont show those tired old pics of you in 1970 with 16 inch arms white as a ghost.

What a sceptic you are. My arms were over 17 in 1970. In the 1975 photo they were about 17 1/2 cold.

I tore my right biceps in 1977 and haven't felt like training as a bodybuilder since. At least I won some titles in my day.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #545 on: November 12, 2011, 07:12:34 PM »
Mr. Basile, what part of Austria are you from?





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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #546 on: November 12, 2011, 09:15:59 PM »
What a sceptic you are. My arms were over 17 in 1970. In the 1975 photo they were about 17 1/2 cold.

I tore my right biceps in 1977 and haven't felt like training as a bodybuilder since. At least I won some titles in my day.


So you haven't trained much for 34 years? You look fantastic at your age having not trained much for so long.

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #547 on: November 13, 2011, 12:37:17 AM »
Ropo makes a lot of statements about the effectiveness or otherwise of various machines. Listen, I am a designer of gym equipment. If you think it is easy then have a go at designing something original and new. Talk about 2% difference is pure speculation.....in polite terms you don't know what you are talking about.

Things might look similar but could be substantially different if compared properly. You don't want to mess around with dangerous exercises for the triceps because it is too easy to damage the connective tissue and you can end up with sore elbows that is more or less permanent. I can tell you variations of tennis elbow is no joke. If you do standing French presses with a barbell you can get sore elbows. Experience will tell you which exercises to avoid and which are okay. Sometimes okay exercises get to be dangerous if heavy weights are used. Little things like arm pads and side pads can make all the difference in the world. Why? Well, believe it or not almost all people cheat doing exercises in the gym. There are two things fuelling the lack of good form in exercises. One is the ego which sees just about everyone trying to use big weights so they look strong. The other is the belief that using heavier weights will result in larger muscles. This is only partly true. The requirement is that the target muscle is actually lifting the resistance.

Two days ago in my gym I found 2 young guys doing the lying triceps extensions. The shorter bloke was using 10 X 5kg plates. He wasn't a huge guy so I told him there was no way he could use that amount of weight. So he proceeded to show me that he could. Fair dinkum, the guy was doing 1/3 range reps and his elbows were sliding sideways. Also, his shoulders were rising up. His body wasn't in a strong position, either. So I got him to reduce the load to 6 plates and have another go. He was struggling to do the reps. Eventually, after several adjustments on the machine, he was successfully doing 5 plates! He could feel the difference and now appreciates how to use the machine and get some results. His mate was taller and he ended up using 4 plates instead of 7. I told both that if they could genuinely lift 10 plates for 10 reps they would have much bigger arms.....18" cold.

I solved the problem of the body rising during triceps pressdowns by installing a bar that allows the user to put his foot under and that keeps him from rising. Made that in the early 1980s. Previously we used a heavy dumbbell to do the same thing.


So this is your way to tell me that there will not be any video clips to compare? I don't design gym equipments for living, but it doesn't mean I don't do it at all. In fact, I have design and build many prototypes, and why? Because they were ordered from me, because the customer know what I can do. For example I made them a rowing handle, which gives you the opportunity to use as much load you want, but without any straps. You all know seated row and those ordinary handles like this:

If you need to go heavy with this, you sooner or later need straps to maintain your grip. I hate straps and didn't want to use them, so with my variation, you don't need them at all, and the answer is so simple. How you would solve this problem with your extra ordinary skills to overcomplicate training ?  ;)    

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #548 on: November 13, 2011, 12:47:36 AM »
gh15, is DOMS required for muscle growth? 

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Re: The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.
« Reply #549 on: November 13, 2011, 02:28:40 AM »
Vince is getting a good beating in Iron age forum from the Dick Admin and that slag Panting.

Use to be a good board. That board use to be home base to me once I got back into bodybuilding. Who is running the show there anyway? Who's admin? And I remember Panting? The woman mod, right? When the old fogeys took over it really became just an Arnold worshiping phag board.