Author Topic: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?  (Read 33235 times)

maxkane69

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #100 on: October 13, 2011, 04:14:38 PM »
After destroying the multiple meals frequency myth for bodybuilders, what about destroying the high protein myth for bodybuilders! ;D

http://www.healthfree.com/nutritional_power_myth.html

HOW MUCH PROTEIN IS "ENOUGH"
Human mother’s milk contains no more than 5% protein. This is enough protein to enable an infant to double it’s weight and size during the first 6 months of life! After that, the need for protein DECREASES. Independent researchers around the world agree that the human need for protein each day is only 25 - 35 GRAMS. (about 1 ounce). Many nutritionists feel that only 20 grams a day are more than enough. Meanwhile, the AVERAGE AMERICAN eats more than 100 GRAMS of protean a day - 5 times the actual need!

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #101 on: October 13, 2011, 04:19:54 PM »
Is there a limit to how much protein the body can use in a single meal?
Posted by Alan Aragon on February 22nd, 2010   

Introduction

A longstanding belief in fitness circles is that the body can only use a certain amount of protein per meal, and the excess is either oxidized or excreted. The ballpark range thrown around is 20-30 grams, with 30 grams being perhaps the most common figure.

This guideline has led many trainees to go through the pains of consuming multiple doses of protein throughout the day, banking that it will maximize muscle anabolism or muscle retention.

Well, true or not, this concept fits in nicely with another longstanding fitness “rule” that you have to eat at least six times per day in order to keep the body’s metabolism revving high. Since the meal frequency and metabolism dogma has been thoroughly debunked [1-5], it’s time to dig into the topic of whether there’s a limit to effective protein dosing, and if so, what that limit might be.

Looking at simple logic first

Let’s imagine an experiment involving two relatively lean 200 lb individuals. For the purposes of this illustration, I’ll assign a daily amount of protein known to adequately support the needs of the athletic population. We’ll give Person A 150 g protein spread over five meals at 30 g each. We’ll give Person B the same amount of protein, but in a single meal. Let’s say that this meal consists of a 16 oz steak, chased with a shake containing two scoops of protein powder.
 
If we really believed that only 30 g protein can be handled by the body in a single meal, then Person B would eventually run into protein deficiency symptoms because he supposedly is only absorbing a total of 30 g out of the 150 g we’re giving him. At 30 g/day, he’s only getting 0.33 g/kg of bodyweight, which isn’t even half of the already-low RDA of 0.8 g/kg. If the body worked this way, the human species would have quickly become extinct. The human body is more efficient and effective than we give it credit for.
 
The body will take all the sweet time it needs to effectively digest and absorb just about whatever dose you give it. Person A will have shorter digestion periods per meal in order to effectively absorb and utilize the small meals. Person B will have a longer digestion period in order to effectively absorb and utilize the large meal. While the truth in this logic seems self-evident, the important question is whether or not it’s supported by scientific research. Let’s look at the evidence, starting with immediate-effect (acute) studies, then move on to the longer-term trials.

Research examining speed of absorption

A thorough literature review by Bilsborough and Mann compiled data from studies by various investigators who measured the absorption rates of various protein sources [6]. Oddly, an amino acid mixture designed to mimic the composition of pork tenderloin made the top spot, at 10 g/hour, while whey took a close second at 8-10 g/hour. Other proteins fell in their respective spots below the top two, with little rhyme or reason behind the outcomes. As a matter of trivia, raw egg protein was the most slowly absorbed of them all at 1.3 g/hour.

It’s important to note that these data have some serious limitations. A major one is the variance of the methods used to determine the absorption rates (i.e., intravenous infusion, oral ingestion, ileal ingestion). Most of the methods are just too crude or far-fetched for serious consideration. Another limitation is that these figures could be skewed depending upon their concentration in solution, which can affect their rate of gastric evacuation. Another factor to consider is the timing of ingestion relative to exercise and how that might differentially affect absorption rates. Finally, short-term data leaves a lot open to question.

Short-term research supporting the magic limit

I’ve heard many folks parrot that the maximal anabolic effect of a single protein dose is limited to 20 grams, citing recent work by Moore and colleagues [7]. In this study’s 4-hour post-exercise test period, 40 g protein did not elicit a greater anabolic response than 20 g. I’d interpret these outcomes with caution. Fundamentally speaking, protein utilization can differ according to muscle mass. The requirements of a 140-lb person will differ markedly from someone who’s a lean 200. Additionally, a relatively low amount of total volume was used (12 sets total). Typical training bouts usually involve more than one muscle group and are commonly at least double that volume, which can potentially increase the demand for nutrient uptake. Finally, the conclusion of the authors is questionable. They state explicitly,

“…we speculate that no more than 5-6 times daily could one ingest this amount (~20 g) of protein and expect muscle protein synthesis to be maximally stimulated.”

So, they’re implying that 100-120 grams of protein per day is maximal for promoting muscle growth. Wait a minute, what? Based on both the bulk of the research evidence and numerous field observations, this is simply false [8,9].
 
In another recent study, Symons and colleagues compared the 5-hour response of a moderate serving of lean beef containing 30 g protein with a large serving containing 90 g protein [10]. The smaller serving increased protein synthesis by approximately 50%, and the larger serving caused no further increase in protein synthesis, despite being triple the dose. The researchers concluded that the ingestion of more than 30 g protein in a single meal does not further enhance muscle protein synthesis. While their conclusion indeed supports the outcomes of their short-term study, it’s pretty easy to predict the outcomes in muscle size and strength if we compared a total daily protein dose of 90 g with 30 g over a longer trial period, let alone one involving a structured exercise protocol. This brings me to the crucial point that acute outcomes merely provide grounds for hypothesis. It’s not completely meaningless, but it’s far from conclusive without examining the long-term effects.

Longer-term research challenging the magic limit

If we were to believe the premise that a 20-30 g dose of protein yields a maximal anabolic effect, then it follows that any excess beyond this dose would be wasted. On the contrary, the body is smarter than that. In a 14-day trial, Arnal and colleagues found no difference in fat-free mass or nitrogen retention between consuming 79% of the day’s protein needs (roughly 54 g) in one meal, versus the same amount spread across four meals [11].

Notably, this study was done on young female adults whose fat-free mass averaged 40.8 kg (89.8 lb). Considering that most non-sedentary males have considerably more lean mass than the female subjects used in the aforementioned trial, it’s plausible that much more than 54 g protein in a single meal can be efficiently processed for anabolic and/or anti-catabolic purposes. If we extrapolated the protein dose used in this study (79% of 1.67g/kg) to the average adult male, it would be roughly 85-95 g or even more, depending on just how close someone is to the end of the upper limits of muscular size.

When Arnal and colleagues applied the same protocol to the elderly population, the single-dose treatment actually caused better muscle protein retention than the multiple-dose treatment [12].  This raises the possibility that as we age, larger protein feedings might be necessary to achieve the same effect on protein retention as lesser amounts in our youth.

IF research nailing the coffin shut?

Perhaps the strongest case against the idea of a dosing limit beyond which anabolism or muscle retention can occur is the recent intermittent fasting (IF) research, particularly the trials with a control group on a conventional diet. For example, Soeters and colleagues compared two weeks of IF involving 20-hour fasting cycles with a conventional diet [13].  Despite the IF group’s consumption of an average of 101 g protein in a 4-hour window, there was no difference in preservation of lean mass and muscle protein between groups.
In another example, Stote and colleagues actually reported an improvement in body composition (including an increase in lean mass) after 8 weeks in the IF group consuming one meal per day, where roughly 86 g protein was ingested in a 4-hour window [14]. Interestingly, the conventional group consuming three meals spread throughout the day showed no significant body composition improvements.

Keep in mind that bioelectrical impedance (BIA) was used to determine body composition, so these outcomes should be viewed with caution. I’ve been highly critical of this study in the past, and I still am. Nevertheless, it cannot be completely written off and must be factored into the body of evidence against the idea of a magic protein dose limit.

Conclusion & application

Based on the available evidence, it’s false to assume that the body can only use a certain amount of protein per meal. Studies examining short-term effects have provided hints towards what might be an optimal protein dose for maximizing anabolism, but trials drawn out over longer periods haven’t supported this idea. So, is there a limit to how much protein per meal can be effectively used? Yes there is, but this limit is likely similar to the amount that’s maximally effective in an entire day. What’s the most protein that the body can effectively use in an entire day? The short answer is, a lot more than 20-30 g. The long answer is, it depends on several factors. In most cases it’s not too far from a gram per pound in drug-free trainees, given that adequate total calories are provided [8,9].

In terms of application, I’ve consistently observed the effectiveness of having approximately a quarter of your target bodyweight in both the pre- and post-exercise meal. Note: target bodyweight is a surrogate index of lean mass, and I use that to avoid making skewed calculations in cases where individuals are markedly over- or underweight. This dose surpasses the amounts seen to cause a maximal anabolic response but doesn’t impinge upon the rest of the day’s protein allotment, which can be distributed as desired. On days off from training, combine or split up your total protein allotment according to your personal preference and digestive tolerance. I realize that freedom and flexibility are uncommon terms in physique culture, but maybe it’s time for a paradigm shift.

In sum, view all information – especially gym folklore and short-term research – with caution. Don’t buy into the myth that protein won’t get used efficiently unless it’s dosed sparingly throughout the day. Hopefully, future research will definitively answer how different dosing schemes with various protein types affect relevant endpoints such as size and strength. In the mean time, feel free to eat the whole steak and drink the whole shake, and if you want to get the best bang for your buck, go for a quality protein blend such as Nitrean!








References

1. Smeets AJ, Westerterp-Plantenga MS. Acute effects on metabolism and appetite profile of one meal difference in the lower range of meal frequency. Br J Nutr. 2008 Jun;99(6):1316-21.

2. Taylor MA, Garrow JS. Compared with nibbling, neither gorging nor a morning fast affect short-term energy balance in obese patients in a chamber calorimeter. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2001 Apr;25(4):519-28.

3. Bellisle F, McDevitt R, Prentice AM. Meal frequency and energy balance. Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70.

4. Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR. Frequency of feeding, weight reduction and energy metabolism. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1993 Jan;17(1):31-6.

5. Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR. Influence of the feeding frequency on nutrient utilization in man: consequences for energy metabolism. Eur J Clin Nutr. 1991 Mar;45(3):161-9.

6. Bilsborough S, Mann N. A review of issues of dietary protein intake in humans. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Apr;16(2):129-52.

7. Moore DR, et al. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;89(1):161-8.

8. Campbell B, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: protein and exercise. J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2007 Sep 26;4:8.

9. Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79.

10. Symons TB, et al. A moderate serving of high-quality protein maximally stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly subjects. J Am Diet Assoc. 2009 Sep;109(9):1582-6.

11. Arnal MA, et al. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. J Nutr. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.

12. Arnal MA, et al. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Jun;69(6):1202-8.

13. Soeters MR, et al. Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism. Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Nov;90(5):1244-51.

14. Stote KS, et al. A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Apr;85(4):981-8.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #102 on: October 13, 2011, 04:34:37 PM »
After destroying the multiple meals frequency myth for bodybuilders, what about destroying the high protein myth for bodybuilders! ;D

http://www.healthfree.com/nutritional_power_myth.html

HOW MUCH PROTEIN IS "ENOUGH"
Human mother’s milk contains no more than 5% protein. This is enough protein to enable an infant to double it’s weight and size during the first 6 months of life! After that, the need for protein DECREASES. Independent researchers around the world agree that the human need for protein each day is only 25 - 35 GRAMS. (about 1 ounce). Many nutritionists feel that only 20 grams a day are more than enough. Meanwhile, the AVERAGE AMERICAN eats more than 100 GRAMS of protean a day - 5 times the actual need!


I was at my friends store the other day and this juicer was there and says: you need 900g of protein a day! I said, that is not necessary but he told me he made great gains that way. Whatever, if someone wants to do that, let them, I find 100-150 fine but am also fine with only 50.
I hate the State.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #103 on: October 13, 2011, 04:55:16 PM »
After destroying the multiple meals frequency myth for bodybuilders, what about destroying the high protein myth for bodybuilders! ;D

http://www.healthfree.com/nutritional_power_myth.html

HOW MUCH PROTEIN IS "ENOUGH"
Human mother’s milk contains no more than 5% protein. This is enough protein to enable an infant to double it’s weight and size during the first 6 months of life! After that, the need for protein DECREASES. Independent researchers around the world agree that the human need for protein each day is only 25 - 35 GRAMS. (about 1 ounce). Many nutritionists feel that only 20 grams a day are more than enough. Meanwhile, the AVERAGE AMERICAN eats more than 100 GRAMS of protean a day - 5 times the actual need!


HOLY SHIT!

I just read that entire page. What an eyeopener  :o :o!! Are the sources legit? It's not some anti-meat site with a vegetarian agenda is it?

If everything in there is true, I will never ever buy another protein supplement. Nor will I keep eating eggs, tuna, chicken etc if I dont feel like it. Fuck that shit, I'm eating pizza everyday if that shit is true.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #104 on: October 13, 2011, 09:24:08 PM »
Coach, why do you refuse to accept science?

Alchemy is science too. But, let's see you turn lead into gold.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #105 on: October 13, 2011, 10:42:47 PM »
Coach, why do you refuse to accept science?

ALL of my training programming and nutrition is based on science with some commonsense. This is why very few get it right. I guaranty if me and adonis and everyone else out there who thinks they "know-it-all" they have another thing coming. Five different people, five different answers. Adonis is an internet wizard, I spend about $10k a year actually traveling to the people who actually write the research and do the actual case studies. This is why most of these debates are laughable. I know people who lurk on here once in a while who are true experts and they just come back to me laughing there asses off.

After 36 years of training and over 15 years of training actual athletes from a high school to and elite pro I feel I'm qualified enough to just look at someone's program and see if they REALLY know what their talking about.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #106 on: October 14, 2011, 05:47:31 AM »
After destroying the multiple meals frequency myth for bodybuilders, what about destroying the high protein myth for bodybuilders! ;D

http://www.healthfree.com/nutritional_power_myth.html

HOW MUCH PROTEIN IS "ENOUGH"
Human mother’s milk contains no more than 5% protein. This is enough protein to enable an infant to double it’s weight and size during the first 6 months of life! After that, the need for protein DECREASES. Independent researchers around the world agree that the human need for protein each day is only 25 - 35 GRAMS. (about 1 ounce). Many nutritionists feel that only 20 grams a day are more than enough. Meanwhile, the AVERAGE AMERICAN eats more than 100 GRAMS of protean a day - 5 times the actual need!


 ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #107 on: October 14, 2011, 06:29:44 AM »
HOLY SHIT!

I just read that entire page. What an eyeopener  :o :o!! Are the sources legit? It's not some anti-meat site with a vegetarian agenda is it?

If everything in there is true, I will never ever buy another protein supplement. Nor will I keep eating eggs, tuna, chicken etc if I dont feel like it. Fuck that shit, I'm eating pizza everyday if that shit is true.

I agree that high protein is not needed, but that article is a joke in my opinion and has clearly a vegetarian agenda.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #108 on: October 14, 2011, 06:45:10 AM »
I have read so many "studies" on both sides of the fence regarding protein.  Some say 60 grams if more than enough on the other extreme is a G or two per pound of bodyweight.

I will admit I wonder if it's a placebo effect with me. I seem to make better gains when I use whey isolate shakes but is it just due to hard work?

I remember a guy telling me back in the day he stopped taking all vitamins and protein shakes. The first few months he said he fell like crap but came to realize it was psychological.  He never went back to supplements.

The only thing I can really point to that I can swear made a difference in my work outs was creatine.

Today I feel sorry for teenagers and young guys in their twenties. Every other page of bodybuilding magazines are fill with supplement ads showing drug bodybuilders claiming it's virtues.  It's almost all snake oil.  It will do nothing for your physique. 

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #109 on: October 14, 2011, 07:59:22 AM »
One of the problems is TA likes to post "studies" for that of a normal person who either doesn't train. Protein varies from person to person to activity to activity.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #110 on: October 14, 2011, 08:13:24 AM »
One of the problems is TA likes to post "studies" for that of a normal person who either doesn't train. Protein varies from person to person to activity to activity.
Well the one I posted contains studies of people who do train.  I say do what works for you and what is optimal for your needs and goals. 

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #111 on: October 14, 2011, 10:00:32 AM »
A normal metabo can not be sped up by eating more food.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #112 on: October 14, 2011, 10:27:57 AM »
Bill Pearl did not believe in large amounts of protein... as a matter of fact, he hired scientists to study the smallest amounts, and they were effective


Vince Taylor ate 3 meals a day (granted he was "whore-moan-eyezd) and his meals were FAR from clean.


There is some empirical data out there to stack to the science.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #113 on: October 14, 2011, 11:16:40 AM »
Let me summarize the findings of this thread:
Building muscle, getting into shape is not 50% training-50% nutrition, but 95% training and 5% nutriton. No protein needed, no frequent meals needed, all u need to do is working out 3x a week. Still, most people in a gym look like shit.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #114 on: October 14, 2011, 11:25:33 AM »
Let me summarize the findings of this thread:
Building muscle, getting into shape is not 50% training-50% nutrition, but 95% training and 5% nutriton. No protein needed, no frequent meals needed, all u need to do is working out 3x a week. Still, most people in a gym look like shit.
This is pretty accurate.  Nutrition will matter very little to a natural.  The best you can do is restrict calories and train hard.  How you look from there is up to your genetics. 

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #115 on: October 14, 2011, 11:45:58 AM »
A normal metabo can not be sped up by eating more food.
more food as in more volume, more portions..what? thanks.  :)

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #116 on: October 14, 2011, 02:57:18 PM »
Let me summarize the findings of this thread:
Building muscle, getting into shape is not 50% training-50% nutrition, but 95% training and 5% nutriton. No protein needed, no frequent meals needed, all u need to do is working out 3x a week. Still, most people in a gym look like shit.

Good post.

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tank u jesus

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2011, 06:39:22 AM »
One of the problems is TA likes to post "studies" for that of a normal person who either doesn't train. Protein varies from person to person to activity to activity.

one of TA's problems is that he looks like shit but still continues to try to act the authority on bodybuilding nutrition when he's the furthest thing from looking like someone who even trains.
b

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #118 on: October 19, 2011, 06:55:57 AM »
How about eating whenever your hungry?

Sounds logical to me, no?

Phil Hernon agrees with you

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #119 on: October 19, 2011, 09:40:30 AM »
IMO,nutrition is at least 75% of the battle.

Eat like the slob who lives next door to you,and you`ll look like the slob who lives next door to you.

As far as protein goes,1-1.5 grams per pound of lean bodyweight is good for most..................re member we tear down tissue everytime we train,20-60 grams just ain`t gonna` cut it when it comes to growth and repair,unless you are a fucking fat couch potato.

End of thread dammit!!   lol  ;D

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #120 on: October 19, 2011, 10:48:13 AM »
more food as in more volume, more portions..what? thanks.  :)

Neither.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #121 on: October 19, 2011, 10:59:53 AM »





This is the best body in the history of bodybuilding! 8)

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #123 on: October 19, 2011, 02:13:35 PM »
I am not, and have never juiced. I've tried eating multiple small meals throughout the day, weighed and measured macronutrients per each small meal, blah blah blah. My tendency is to gain weight very easily (muscle and fat), but leaning out comes not so easily.

I've also just eaten a couple of meals a day. I usually don't have much of an appetite, so the multiple meals thing really did take some getting used to. So I did both for about 4 months each. I was very diligent with the smaller more frequent eating style, making sure I got my 30g of protein per meal. I did not end up any leaner - just felt more tired and had less time in the day to get things done because I always seemed to be eating.

Two meals a day was really comfortable, didn't get fat, still gained nicely, and it was much easier to manage than eating frequently.

Just my two cents worth - I never found the results I was told I would with the smaller more frequent meals.

I do notice a difference when I up my protein though. Not to crazy proportions but it certainly adds some strength as far as I can tell.

And I think periodic fasting is fantastic for your health. Big big believer in it.

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Re: Eating Five Or Six Meals Each Day Speeds Up Metabolism - MYTH?
« Reply #124 on: October 19, 2011, 02:18:10 PM »
2 meals...
just having my second now did not work out today though
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