training muscles twice a week?

[chess315]

I have been training muscles twice a week I feel once a weeks it generally better but would like some advive on this type of training
monday and thursday
chest
back
triceps
delts

friday
biceps
quads
hamstrings calves

I usually do around 3 to 5 sets per muscle group I occasionaly will through in a set or to of a stretch type movement after the compound movment if the compound movement isnt already a stretch movement. I.e sissy squats,incline dumbell curls,flyes for a set.

so a workout would look like this
bench 3 sets 5-15 flyes 1 set 10-12
chins 2-3 sets
bent rows 2-3 sets
skull crusher 2 sets overhead cable extensions 1-2 sets
side laterals

or
barbell curls 2-3 sets  incline dumbell curls 1-2 sets
legpress 3 sets  sissy squat 1-2 sets
legcurl 2-3 sets stiff leg deadlift 1 set
calves 2 sets

i change movments the second half of the week but use mostly compound movments i think stavios,coach and tbombz train muscles 2 times a week so if you guys read this i wouldnt mind a description of your routine or coach.

[wes]

I`ve been training everything 2 X a week since last April at the advice of Coach............I love it.

My split:
Mon. Legs
Tues. Chest + Back
Wed. Shoulders + Arms
Repeat Th.,Fri.,and Sat. using weights that are a bit lighter.

I switch up exercises at every workout..........no workout is ever exactly the same as the previous one for that bodypart.


Getting great results...............to ok a while to get used to it at first but my strength is up,I`m lean, muscular,and my enthusiasm to train is very high.

[chess315]

thanx for the reply how high is your volume on each muscle group? that the main thing Im concerned on.  I think these workouts for a change if nothing else

[wild willie]

I generally train each group once a week and for 10-12 sets for larger groups...ie....back....c hest.


smaller groups get 8-10 sets ie.....arms....calves


I occasionally train calves twice a week.....for example: Monday 5 sets of calves.....Thursday 5 sets of calves.

But chest...back....etc..... all receive 10-12 sets.... once a week.

If I do work arms twice a week.....it would look like this.....Monday bis 4-5 sets......tris 4-5 sets

Thursday bis 4-5 sets.....tris 4-5 sets......but more often than not.....I just work arms once a week.

[Donny]

i think what i would do if i was going to train each muscle 2x a week is upper/lower. I have done this and you get good results very fast...because you are not doing too many ex. Forget all the bollocks isolation stuff.

[Schmoff]

I can't do it, need more time to recover

 

[chess315]

I've even played with the idea of using an 8 day week for the training each muscle 2x I try to using more easier movments the second half if you will once i get to a gym. I may do the first half free weights the second half hammer strength I never messed with machines really so that may give me gains in its self

[yates fan]

i tried doing it the way ronnie coleman does,would have to quit my job to recover from it,the best i found is to pick a stubborn bodypart or two and hit them twice a week,and everything else once a week.

[SaltShaker]

i just started a 3 day split myself:

Day1; Chest/Bis/Tris
Day2: Back/Delts/Trap
Day3:Quads/Hams/Calves


i do 3 excercises each, 3 sets each, keep the reps between 8-10... it has worked for me in the past, im back to doing it again after 8-9 months of trying other stuff

[Straw Man]

I recently started training upper body 3 times a week and lower body 2x with the following split

M/W/F = uppper body
Tues/Sat = Lower body

~ 4-5 sets per bp (not including warm up on first exercise)

I've never done this before and I've been making strength and size gains

got the idea from reading some threads about the "big beyond belief" and phil hernon type training over at Tnation.com

each day of the week is a different workout and total weekly volume is about the same as when doing each bodyparty 1x per week

[chess315]

I recently started training upper body 3 times a week and lower body 2x with the following split

M/W/F = uppper body
Tues/Sat = Lower body

~ 4-5 sets per bp (not including warm up on first exercise)

I've never done this before and I've been making strength and size gains

got the idea from reading some threads about the "big beyond belief" and phil hernon type training over at Tnation.com

each day of the week is a different workout and total weekly volume is about the same as when doing each bodyparty 1x per week

no matter what you think of phil hernon as a person a lot of people love that workout

[Straw Man]

no matter what you think of phil hernon as a person a lot of people love that workout

yeah and I'm not really following his workout per se

just decided to try a higher frequency and lower volume approach

I figured out quickly that my upper body can recover fine on 3 times a week but my legs can only take 2 times per week.

The pumps are great and my arms have never been bigger

[madg]

yeah and I'm not really following his workout per se

just decided to try a higher frequency and lower volume approach

I figured out quickly that my upper body can recover fine on 3 times a week but my legs can only take 2 times per week.

The pumps are great and my arms have never been bigger

can u give a sample routine or a link of hernons routine?

[Straw Man]

can u give a sample routine or a link of hernons routine?

I don't follow Hernons routine.  He as just one of the sources I considered when switching to 3x per week and I only train upper body 3x per week (M, W, F) and legs on Tuesday and Saturday.

I do chest/back together then shoulders and the bis/tris together and then forearms.

On Wednesday I do Delts (presses) first supersetted with a back movement and then do ches/back, bis/tri, then forearms.

Usually no more than 4-5 sets per bp on upper body and ~ 6 sets per bp on lower body

everyworkout is different (i.e. different movements on each day but usually repeating the same workout each week)

here's a link to short article about higher frequency training.  
Note total weekly volume was constant so the only varialbe was frequency of stimulation
http://www.flexonline.com/training/getting-ripped/greater-frequency-greater-gains

You've got to figure out what works best for you.

For example I tried doing legs 3 times a week but I was getting weaker so lowered it to 2 times a week and started getting stronger again

[andreisdaman]

I have been training muscles twice a week I feel once a weeks it generally better but would like some advive on this type of training
monday and thursday
chest
back
triceps
delts

friday
biceps
quads
hamstrings calves

I usually do around 3 to 5 sets per muscle group I occasionaly will through in a set or to of a stretch type movement after the compound movment if the compound movement isnt already a stretch movement. I.e sissy squats,incline dumbell curls,flyes for a set.

so a workout would look like this
bench 3 sets 5-15 flyes 1 set 10-12
chins 2-3 sets
bent rows 2-3 sets
skull crusher 2 sets overhead cable extensions 1-2 sets
side laterals

or
barbell curls 2-3 sets  incline dumbell curls 1-2 sets
legpress 3 sets  sissy squat 1-2 sets
legcurl 2-3 sets stiff leg deadlift 1 set
calves 2 sets

i change movments the second half of the week but use mostly compound movments i think stavios,coach and tbombz train muscles 2 times a week so if you guys read this i wouldnt mind a description of your routine or coach.

Unless you're under 25, you're overtraining

[chess315]

hernon wrote big beyond belief

[Straw Man]

hernon wrote big beyond belief

the copy I have was written by Leo Costa who (from what I've read) ripped off some of Hernons ideas and then added other stuff

[chess315]

the copy I have was written by Leo Costa who (from what I've read) ripped off some of Hernons ideas and then added other stuff

that workout has worked for many people but fuck that my 34yo ass would have a heart attack plus i dont have a team of spotters doing compound lifts to true faliure is dangerous I dont care what anyone says.

[andreisdaman]

that workout has worked for many people but fuck that my 34yo ass would have a heart attack plus i dont have a team of spotters doing compound lifts to true faliure is dangerous I dont care what anyone says.

agreed......big time

[Straw Man]

that workout has worked for many people but fuck that my 34yo ass would have a heart attack plus i dont have a team of spotters doing compound lifts to true faliure is dangerous I dont care what anyone says.

I'm 45 and I have no problem with it

in the last couple of weeks due to a busy work schedule I've been doing each bp 1x every 3 days so hitting each bp 3 times in 9 days and I'm liking this too.  I might even stick with this as it gives me a bit more flexibility with the work schedule.   I can do upper body, lower body, rest, repeat or upper body, rest, lower body, upper body, rest, etc..

btw - I train alone and get a spotter only for bb incline press and bb decline press

[Donny]

I'm 45 and I have no problem with it

in the last couple of weeks due to a busy work schedule I've been doing each bp 1x every 3 days so hitting each bp 3 times in 9 days and I'm liking this too.  I might even stick with this as it gives me a bit more flexibility with the work schedule.   I can do upper body, lower body, rest, repeat or upper body, rest, lower body, upper body, rest, etc..

btw - I train alone and get a spotter only for bb incline press and bb decline press

well if it works it works...i am 45 too and donīt feel it. As you get older there is MORE reason to work out to stay in shape as say with 20. Gone are the days when people said "well iīm 40 now...3 kids...itīs all over". just keep on pumpin Guys and Gals..

[wes]

well if it works it works...i am 45 too and donīt feel it. As you get older there is MORE reason to work out to stay in shape as say with 20. Gone are the days when people said "well iīm 40 now...3 kids...itīs all over". just keep on pumpin Guys and Gals..

Damn right brother!

[Straw Man]

well if it works it works...i am 45 too and donīt feel it. As you get older there is MORE reason to work out to stay in shape as say with 20. Gone are the days when people said "well iīm 40 now...3 kids...itīs all over". just keep on pumpin Guys and Gals..

yep, I agree and at the current time it seems to be working.  My strength is going up and people who have known me for years have been asking me if I'm getting bigger.    I have been working out consistently since I was 15 and training each bp ~ 1x per week since the early 90's so this is a change in frequency for me but not really a huge change in volume.  Instead of doing 12 sets 1 time per week I'm doing 4-5 sets (work sets) 2-3 times a week (or now 3 times every 9 days).

I usually superset chest/back and then do delts and the superset Arms.   I typically do 1 big exercise per BP for 3 sets and then 1 additional exercise for 1 set with rest pause ala doggcrapp.   Sometimes I'll do 2 sets of 2 different exercises.   Here are some links to things I read while putting this idea together:

http://velocity.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_alpha/bodypart_once_weekly

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/optimum_training_systems_big_beyond_belief_program_?id=3089755&pageNo=0

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/modok_how_do_you_train

btw - Wes posted a pic of CF Smith on another thread and it reminded me that he supposedly did a Mentzer style workout (from what I recall reading) and I found this online and it's very similar to what am doing now that I'm not a fan of doing all pre-exhaustion though I will do it occassionally for some muscle groups:
http://highintensitytrainingforum.lefora.com/2010/01/09/dr-cf-smith/

I also read something similar at professional muscle but the link is very slow so I'm copying the post. I didn't write this and don't know if it's accurate or not.  It's just something I stumbled across as I was looking for info on training bp's more frequently

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/701-little-story-ya-2-a.html

Id been looking to move to a new structured routine as opposed to just going to the gym and busting my but on a bodypart being trained once per week.
I was considering the type of routine i believe a number of people from this board follow such as Supercell to mention just one.

HOWEVER, i came across the following from an American board which IFBB Phil Hernon is a big advocate of:-

Here is that post by LATS, tons of info.

A LITTLE STORY FOR YA 2
WELL LET ME FIRST STATE THAT PHIL IS GOING TO LOVE THIS ONE. i went this weekend to take those filler photos i told ya about last time. it has been a while since i had seen my buddy although we do not live far from one another (a couple of hours). years ago when i would make the trip to train with him on the weekends (before we both had kids) he did more of a high volume training routine. back then he was still going to school to get his degree in exercise phys. even then he was a complete genetic freak. extremely strong on all movements. thicker then ****. i saw him when he won his state title and he was awesome. no one could even come close. then he sent me photos of his condition 3 weeks out from the jr nationals and i thought there is no one that could handle him. but, as you know things can change quickly. he ended up getting food poisoning that put him in the hospitol overnight from dehydration.
even while he was getting ready for the jr's i never asked him about his training. the talk usually centerd around his work and his new baby ect. he decided not to purue a job in his degree but, took over his fathers biz which is doing very well. my wiofe sees him all the time since when i am working she will go down to see the new baby which she is godmother of. she would tell me how big he was getting and that it was almost "too much". of course , there is never such a thing as "too much". lol. so i picked up my camera and went to see him train.
i walked into the gym and of course, he is 20 minutes late. he is wearing cut off sweats and a baggy t shirt. his quads are beyond big. the best legs i have seen on a non pro his height. his only down fall is his calves. he tears the **** out of them but, it is a struggle. he is 5'6 and this day he weighs 239 and very lean. (i will post pics of him very soon. face blurred of course lol) his best upper body group is his delts and traps. he tells me he is doing chest back shoulders today. WTF!!! i ask him howm many sets of each. he says three. i decided to wait and see what he was going to do and not ask a ton of questions just yet. he and his workout partner start doing pushup and light lat pulldowns just to get blood moving. after just a few minutes of this he heads to the incline bench. he claims he can do over 400 pounds for reps on it. his partner nodds in agreement. he does a set with 225 pounds for 6 reps pausing at the chest each rep to get a stretch. he then goes to 315 and does the same. warmups are over. remember that this is free bar. he loads up for one big set. pounds is put on the bar 405. he unracks it and proceed to do 5 controlled reps to failure....i **** a brick. he then moves to the flex leverage upright bench press. he puts 4 45's and a 25 a side. no warm up. he cranks out 8 good reps with it before failure. we then head over to the incline set low and he proceed to grab the 125's dumbells. he gets them into position and nails 13 good reps. he then says chest is over. he rested only a few minutes between sets. next was lats. one warmup of hammer front lat pulldown and he was set. he puts 4 45s and a 25 on each side and gets 5 good ones and a cheat one at the end. we then head over to the dumbell rack and he grabs a 165 pound dumbell and starts doing one arm rows. he gets 9. after catching his breath he goes to the low pulley row and puts the whole stack on. it is hard to tell how much weight it is because it is a old machine and the poundages are worn off the plates. anyway he did the whole stack and hit failure at 11 reps. next was shoulders. he started at the rear delt pec dek. it was a icarian model. he 190lbs for 7 good reps. he then moved to the dumbell rack for side laterals. he grabbed the 65's and nailed 10 good reps plus some partials. last was hammer shoulder press. 3 plates and a 10 each side for 13 reps. then shrugs. he loaded up the hammer standing shrug and did about 11 to 12 reps. last was two sets of abs done weighted on the leg raise. 42 minutes had past.
now for the logic behind it. he states that he only goes by research that proves how muscle grows. he does not want to get involved in anedotol evidence. (can you tell he has a degree lol) he told me the next day was arms and legs. then he would repeat the first days workout. the only difference the second chest, back and delt workout would have is he would reverse the order of the exercises and that would give the first days heavy exercise a break by having it do 11 to 15 reps instead of 5 to 7 reps. this would be repeated until he felt he needed a break for a day. he came to this workout after weighing all evidence of how a muscle grows and responds. he says that he rarely gets to sore from this workout but, that soreness is not a indicator of a muscle readiness to be worked again. even if a muscle has slight soreness to it, it does not mean you cant train it. he says that if you are very sore two days later then you have done much to much volume. he went into detail here so i will give you the short version. he says that muscular growth occurs within 36 hours of stimulous. that is when protein synthesis is at its highest. he is basing this on many studies that he researched when he was going to the university. he tried to explain that muscle growth was not hard to come by. all that was needed was a disruption of muscle fiber that required it to respond to certain stimuli. doing too much volume was the reason for the long breaks between sessions that is seen by most bodybuilders. he believes that if it takes that long to recover (which he claims is mainly nerve recovery then muscle fiber recovery) then you are wasteing a hugh amount of time. you are giving the muscle the stimulous to go one step forward then waiting to long and making it go back to its original state. he believes that a muscle is going to start degenerating in about 48 to 72 hours.
based on this he says that bodybuilders need to cut volume back greatly so that they can take advantage of this time span. he believes that one should find out how much volume they can get away with while still being able to train the muscle in 48 hours. also, he states that the other reason for the low volume is to not tax the central nervous system which takes more time to regenerate that muscular tissue. when he feels he needs a break he will take a extra day off. the varying of the reps scheme he says is essential to take advantage of different tut schemes and is needed to have optimal growth. he switches the exercises rep schemes so to avoid injury in any certain plane of motion and to give that joint a break.

now if this seems strangly similar to phils training routine, i noticed it to. i brought up phil's routine to him and how it worked (as best i could anyway) i told hime that it was a little to strange that you had the same reasonings. he first said " you talked to phil hernon !!!!?" what happened to that guy" after explaining phils life story and his new addiction to penis pumps he said "isnt that wild.. we do have similar training styles. he must have weighed all the evidence and did alot of studying on the logistics of muscle growth" while he was talking i was thinking about how the penis pump might work for me... i snapped out of it and asked more questions while he sucked down a protein shake. i brought up past champions that did not use his system and they had great muscular growth. i then played devils advocate and said that maybe this workout only worked for phil and him because of their great genetics.. "look idiot, it is based on science pure and simple. not a ****ing weider principal. weider set bodybuilding science back 40 years. most, if not all past champs got there by superior genetics and their bodies ability to assimulate drugs well. not because any real thought went into their program". after the sting of the idiot comment wore off i asked about drugs.
he stated that drugs are not an excuse to up volume. find what works naturally and then exploit it even more through proper drug use. he said that the reason why some people do not respond well to drugs is that they do not properly understand why they work. he said "it all comes down to protein intake. steroids up protein synthesis big time. hell, you can even grow a little not training if you take gear and have a huge amount of protein in your system. now add just enough stimulous to disrupt cells and fiber and there you have it. now hit that muscle often as possible and you will get bigger. much bigger"
when i asked what gear he prefered he said, " you can not beat fina. high androgen, highly anabolic, no water retention, no estrogen related problems... can not beat it." i asked about test and he felt that test should be the basis for all courses but, he liked the results he got from fina based courses too. the day we were together he said he was on a course of 100 mgs of fina eod, 100 prop eod, eq at 500 mgs a week. he will be on that for 6 weeks then switch to 4 sust amps a week(spread out every other day) 100 mgs prop eod, 30 mgs of dbol a day. he takes no anti e's right now since he has had gyno surgery a few years back. they removed all mammary glands and ducts. so he has not had to worry about that lately. he stays on for 16 weeks at a time then takes 6 weeks off. during that time his training is cut back slightly. he trains two on and one off those days to add a little in recup and to give his mind a bit of a break. but, the training is basically the same.
while i am at it, the leg/arm routine he gave me goes like this. 1 set leg press (one leg at a time) 5 to 8 reps, one set leg ext (one leg at a time) 9 to 11 reps, one set squat for 12 to 15 reps, standing leg curl one set 5 to 8 reps, stiff legged deads one set 10 to 12 reps. arms: hammer preacher curl 1 set 5 to 7 reps, hammer dumbell curls one set 8 to 10 reps, cable curl one set 12 to 15 reps. lying dumbell ext one set 5 to 8 reps, pushdowns one set 8 to 10 reps, one arm overhead ext one set 12 to 15.
so to recap the boys theorys:
1) train a muscle often.
2) keep protein at very high levels to add in the needed synthesis
3) train just enough volume per bodypart so that you stimulate a little growth but are able to train it again two days lately.
4) train with low enough volume so that you do not excessively tax the cns. (which takes much longer to recover than muscle damage)
5) remember that gear is an aid to better protein assimulation. which leads to gains. if they have nothing to work with (protein and stimulus) then they are worthless.
6) you can train a muscle when it is sore. soreness is not an indicator of recovery.
whether you agree with him or not, it makes since when he talks about it. but, he really believes what he says and believes that he has science on his side. so , believe it is worth a try... got nothing to lose and maybe some tissue to gain....if not you will always have the knowledge it brought ya....

[chess315]

thats basically what I had had wrote as the opening workout which is somewhat similar to big beyond belife the actuall bbb workout is a brutal fucking thing if one was to follow it to the t.

[wes]

Straw Man,that`s some old school training articles/principles....thanks for sharing them. 

I used to train like that years ago with my partner.......people would say,"Wow,you guys are done already" ??

We had done so much intense work, in such a short amount of time, that their two hour sessions would pale by comparison.

I always, to this day,unless going super heavy (for me anyway),adhere to the Vince Gironda saying that is to "do the most work in the shortest possible amount of time".

As an example, if person A and person B are both the same age,strength,and both do the same exact workout using the same exact sets and reps with the same poundages,but it takes person A only 45 minutes to complete his training,while person B takes 90-120 minutes.........all other things being equal,person A trained harder as he did his workout in far less time.........."Intensity Of Effort", is what Vince called it.