SC Debate

[Roger Bacon]

The GOP fears Paul because he doesn't buy into the military-industrial complex. The GOP is hellbent on "saving" America from enemies it creates. He wishes to stop this, thus he is despised. 

You're making a lot of sense today!

[Straw Man]

Some people are stupid.  Like many who embrace that 911 conspiracy crap.  But my point was/is people aren't stupid solely because they have a different viewpoint, or because, en mass, they disagree with what a particular candidate has to say. 

33 is absolutely right about Obamabot and Paulbots.  Cut from the same cloth.  Say something negative about the messiah, brace yourself for personal attacks.  It's pretty lame.  And humorous. 

the only one who called Obama a messiah is 333 and he also initiates the personal attacks which is why it's completely fair game to attack him back

It cracks me up that he say completely unnecesary and vile things about Michelle Obama and then thinks the exact same type of attack on him is offensive and unwarranted.

If he could just stick to the topic and stop with the constant name calling and unprompted FU"s this board would be a lot better

for fucks sake, the guy starts threads with FU in the title

who else but him does that on this board?

[Soul Crusher]

the only one who called Obama a messiah is 333 and he also initiates the personal attacks which is why it's completely fair game to attack him back

It cracks me up that he say completely unnecesary and vile things about Michelle Obama and then thinks the exact same type of attack on him is offensive and unwarranted.

If he could just stick to the topic and stop with the constant name calling and unprompted FU"s this board would be a lot better

for fucks sake, the guy starts threads with FU in the title

who else but him does that on this board?

Obama and his staff called him the messiah.   

[Straw Man]

Obama and his staff called him the messiah.   

yeah, we've been over this before and you've not only taken it out of context but then projected on everyone else who didn't say it

I dont' expect someone as profoundly stupid as yourself to even understand that

shit, when I posted about Barbours pardons last week you immediately jumped to the absurd conclusion that his family was threatened and you called this the only possible explanation

face it man.....you're just not that bright

[Soul Crusher]

yeah, we've been over this before and you've not only taken it out of context but then projected on everyone else who didn't say it

I dont' expect someone as profoundly stupid as yourself to even understand that

shit, when I posted about Barbours pardons last week you immediately jumped to the absurd conclusion that his family was threatened and you called this the only possible explanation

face it man.....you're just not that bright

LOL at the idiot who voted for "Black Jesus . . . . the one we have been waiting for" 

[Straw Man]

LOL at the idiot who voted for "Black Jesus . . . . the one we have been waiting for" 

great comeback

[Shockwave]

1.  Al Qaeda is a collection of terrorists who are evil.  They attack and murder innocent civilans.  There is zero justification for the murder of innocents.  And because they are not a country, saying we "bombed them" is ridiculous. 

2.  What exactly were we doing on 911 that justified a terrorist attack?  Sort of a rhetorical question, because nothing justifies terrorism.  But one thing were not doing was bombing or attacking anyone.  If that's the case, then to the extent the attacks were not solely because they hate Western culture (which they do), then it had to be because of our foreign policy?  Just another absurd way to try and justify terrorism. 

3.  The Golden Rule says do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  What the heck were we doing on 911??  Of course he was drawing a parallel between our conduct and the 911 attacks. 

4.  I'm actually struggling to try and make sense of his comments, because they were so bizarre.  I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt that his comments were limited to 911.  If they were not limited to 911, they're still absurd. 

Suffice to say, yesterday was not his finest hour. 

Good lord dude... so because Al Qaeda is a group of people somehow means they arent from the regions we have constantly stuck our nose into and bombed? Jesus your logic is so convoluted. No one is saying what they did is ok, just that we provoked them by our constant operations in their region. Your bullshit about "we werent doing anything on 911 to justify it" Well no shit, its never justified, but your whole point is stupid, they attacked us because they dont like our actions in their region of the world. How in the fuck are you trying to argue this?
And your attitude of their reasons for attacking us = justifying it is equally absurd and idiotic.
Justification = meaning something is just, which no one thinks it was.
Explaining why they attacked us doesnt make it OK, its simply their reason for doing so.

Goddamn man, youre like arguing with an infant.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Good lord dude... so because Al Qaeda is a group of people somehow means they arent from the regions we have constantly stuck our nose into and bombed? Jesus your logic is so convoluted. No one is saying what they did is ok, just that we provoked them by our constant operations in their region. Your bullshit about "we werent doing anything on 911 to justify it" Well no shit, its never justified, but your whole point is stupid, they attacked us because they dont like our actions in their region of the world. How in the fuck are you trying to argue this?
And your attitude of their reasons for attacking us = justifying it is equally absurd and idiotic.
Justification = meaning something is just, which no one thinks it was.
Explaining why they attacked us doesnt make it OK, its simply their reason for doing so.

Goddamn man, youre like arguing with an infant.

Welcome to the frustration zone.

[Shockwave]

Welcome to the frustration zone.

Yeah I dont think Ill argue anymore...

The whole Al Qaeda isnt a country so we cant have bombed them therefore they arent attacking us because of our actions in their region of the world logic is beyond me.
Not to mention the whole "explaining/understanding why they attacked us  = justification = we think it was ok" leap of logic is just beyond hope. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

Yeah I dont think Ill argue anymore...

The whole Al Qaeda isnt a country so we cant have bombed them therefore they arent attacking us because of our actions in their region of the world logic is beyond me.
Not to mention the whole "explaining/understanding why they attacked us  = justification = we think it was ok" leap of logic is just beyond hope. 

This is the most frustrating part. No one ever said it was ok but they beat us over the head with it.

Lighten things up a bit.

#!

[Dos Equis]

Good lord dude... so because Al Qaeda is a group of people somehow means they arent from the regions we have constantly stuck our nose into and bombed? Jesus your logic is so convoluted. No one is saying what they did is ok, just that we provoked them by our constant operations in their region. Your bullshit about "we werent doing anything on 911 to justify it" Well no shit, its never justified, but your whole point is stupid, they attacked us because they dont like our actions in their region of the world. How in the fuck are you trying to argue this?
And your attitude of their reasons for attacking us = justifying it is equally absurd and idiotic.
Justification = meaning something is just, which no one thinks it was.
Explaining why they attacked us doesnt make it OK, its simply their reason for doing so.

Goddamn man, youre like arguing with an infant.

Hey here's an idea, if you think you're arguing with an infant then don't engage me.  Pretty simple.  

Here is what's stupid:  saying "they" attack us because we bomb "them," when "they" and "them" not only haven't been bombed, but "they" don't even cohesively exist.  

You know what else is stupid?  Using the "Golden Rule" at all in this context.  It doesn't make any dang sense.  It was a terrible moment for Ron Paul.

[Shockwave]

Hey here's an idea, if you think you're arguing with an infant then don't engage me.  Pretty simple.  

Here is what's stupid:  saying "they" attack us because we bomb "them," when "they" and "them" not only haven't been bombed, but "they" don't even cohesively exist.  

You know what else is stupid?  Using the "Golden Rule" at all in this context.  It doesn't make any dang sense.  It was a terrible moment for Ron Paul.

"They" = People who comprise Al Qaeda, citizens of countries (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc, the list goes on) we bomb/intrude in affairs (Iraq bombinb, Iran/Contra, toppling regimes, installing leaders, the list goes on), so they join a group who's primary purpose it to get the US out of the middle east, so they organize a terror attack.

Therefore "they" attacked "us" because we bombed "them". No matter how much you argue semantics, you just makes you look like you refuse to accept reality.
In this case, youre the one being stupid. Not Paul, or any of the Paul fans defending him in this case.

The golden rule - treat others as you wish to be treated - I.E.,You want them to leave us alone, you dont want them to retaliate against us, you stop interferring in their countries affairs and pushing our interests on them. How hard is that to understand?
Oh, wait, I forgot, you dont think were doing anything over there to piss them off prior to 9/11, or am I wrong?

[Dos Equis]

"They" = People who comprise Al Qaeda, citizens of countries (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc, the list goes on) we bomb/intrude in affairs (Iraq bombinb, Iran/Contra, toppling regimes, installing leaders, the list goes on), so they join a group who's primary purpose it to get the US out of the middle east, so they organize a terror attack.

Therefore "they" attacked "us" because we bombed "them". No matter how much you argue semantics, you just makes you look like you refuse to accept reality.
In this case, youre the one being stupid. Not Paul, or any of the Paul fans defending him in this case.

The golden rule - treat others as you wish to be treated - I.E.,You want them to leave us alone, you dont want them to retaliate against us, you stop interferring in their countries affairs and pushing our interests on them. How hard is that to understand?
Oh, wait, I forgot, you dont think were doing anything over there to piss them off prior to 9/11, or am I wrong?

I see.  So when Ron Paul mentioned the Golden Rule, and said they attacked us because we bombed them, "them" referred to Iraq, Iran/Contra, toppling regimes, installing leaders, etc.?  So now they attacked us, not only because we bombed "them," but because we have been meddling in "their" affairs?  Can it possibly get any more convoluted? 

The fact we exist "pisses off" radical Islamists.  The fact we have a military presence outside of the world upsets them.  The fact we support Israel angers them.  But we're not talking about them being upset.  It's about the Golden Rule. 

The only way to logically use the Golden Rule in this context is as some sort of justification or explanation for terrorist attacks.  That's why the whole friggin building booed him when he made his comments.  It's completely nonsensical.   

[Shockwave]

I see.  So when Ron Paul mentioned the Golden Rule, and said they attacked us because we bombed them, "them" referred to Iraq, Iran/Contra, toppling regimes, installing leaders, etc.?  So now they attacked us, not only because we bombed "them," but because we have been meddling in "their" affairs?  Can it possibly get any more convoluted? 

The fact we exist "pisses off" radical Islamists.  The fact we have a military presence outside of the world upsets them.  The fact we support Israel angers them.  But we're not talking about them being upset.  It's about the Golden Rule. 

The only way to logically use the Golden Rule in this context is as some sort of justification or explanation for terrorist attacks.  That's why the whole friggin building booed him when he made his comments.  It's completely nonsensical.   

You honestly, honestly believe their reasoning for attacking us was because we exist? And not because we push our interests and Israels interests on their countries? Ron Paul has said over and over that it has to do with the blowback from all those things. Youll hear no argument from me he worded things poorly, but anyone that is aware of anything he has said is capable of figuring out when he says "bombing" (including bombing Iraq in 98) in that case he is referring to all the shit we've done in the middle east in the last 40+ years, as he has reffered to this over and over.

Yes, the fact we have military bases in their backyards upsets them. Id be upset if Iran had a base on our border in Mexico.

If you believe they attacked us because we exist, then youre beyond rationality.

[Dos Equis]

You honestly, honestly believe their reasoning for attacking us was because we exist? And not because we push our interests and Israels interests on their countries? Ron Paul has said over and over that it has to do with the blowback from all those things. Youll hear no argument from me he worded things poorly, but anyone that is aware of anything he has said is capable of figuring out when he says "bombing" (including bombing Iraq in 98) in that case he is referring to all the shit we've done in the middle east in the last 40+ years, as he has reffered to this over and over.

Yes, the fact we have military bases in their backyards upsets them. Id be upset if Iran had a base on our border in Mexico.

If you believe they attacked us because we exist, then youre beyond rationality.

They hate our culture.  They believe we are corrupt.  They believe we are evil.  The goal of radical Islam is for us to either convert or die.  So yes, they hate us because we exist. 

Are there other factors?  Sure.  The stuff I already mentioned (support for Israel, Middle East presence, etc.).  But to deny the hatred they have for our way of life is to deny reality.

Also, there is nothing wrong with our support for Israel, having a military presence in the Middle East, kicking Saddam out of Kuwait and preventing him from invading Saudi Arabia, etc. so the Golden Rule doesn't apply. 

One of the overring problems with trying to use the Golden Rule is it equates us with our enemies.  Couldn't be more wrongheaded. 

What 1998 Iraq bombing are you talking about?     

[Shockwave]

They hate our culture.  They believe we are corrupt.  They believe we are evil.  The goal of radical Islam is for us to either convert or die.  So yes, they hate us because we exist. 

Are there other factors?  Sure.  The stuff I already mentioned (support for Israel, Middle East presence, etc.).  But to deny the hatred they have for our way of life is to deny reality.

Also, there is nothing wrong with our support for Israel, having a military presence in the Middle East, kicking Saddam out of Kuwait and preventing him from invading Saudi Arabia, etc. so the Golden Rule doesn't apply. 

One of the overring problems with trying to use the Golden Rule is it equates us with our enemies.  Couldn't be more wrongheaded. 

What 1998 Iraq bombing are you talking about?     

I never denied they hate us because of what we represent, but there are literally dozens of other countries that are far more "westernized" and liberal than us (see Germany) they dont attack.
The fact that you think equating us with our enemies is wrongheaded is telling, they react to our actions the same way we react to theirs. Were both comprised of people, both react based on how they percieve things. We look at them like they are backwards and retarded, they look at us the same way.

To try and flat out say they are evil and they attacked us because they dont like us is ignorant as hell. There is no excuse for how they act but to understand WHY they do is a huge step forwards, unless we just decide to say fuck it and declare war on Islam.

[Skip8282]

Yeah, they're not trying to hit Germany, lolololol.

Aw lawdy...

[Shockwave]

Yeah, they're not trying to hit Germany, lolololol.

Aw lawdy...

It was 1 example of many. Germany being the most liberal one I could think of.
You wont find me arguing that they dislike our lifestyle choice. But to think their actions on 9/11 is primarily due to the way we live our lives is ludicous (especially since "US out of middle east" is a common theme amongst them)

[Dos Equis]

I never denied they hate us because of what we represent, but there are literally dozens of other countries that are far more "westernized" and liberal than us (see Germany) they dont attack.
The fact that you think equating us with our enemies is wrongheaded is telling, they react to our actions the same way we react to theirs. Were both comprised of people, both react based on how they percieve things. We look at them like they are backwards and retarded, they look at us the same way.

To try and flat out say they are evil and they attacked us because they dont like us is ignorant as hell. There is no excuse for how they act but to understand WHY they do is a huge step forwards, unless we just decide to say fuck it and declare war on Islam.

There is no other country like The Great Satan.  We're the ultimate destination.  People around the globe move to the U.S.  Even radical Islamists come here to be educated.  We're a much bigger target.  That said, I completely disagree about other Westernized countries not being attacked.  

Radical Islamists are evil.  There is no other way to say it.  What they believe is twisted.  Their methods are barbaric.  We're nothing like them.  

I haven't said anything about Islam.  There are plenty of good Muslims.  We can't declare war on Islam.  But we can find and kill radical Islamists who are trying kill Americans.    

[Skip8282]

It was 1 example of many. Germany being the most liberal one I could think of.
You wont find me arguing that they dislike our lifestyle choice. But to think their actions on 9/11 is primarily due to the way we live our lives is ludicous (especially since "US out of middle east" is a common theme amongst them)

Example of what?  In case it went over your head...I was mocking your nonsense.  Hell, you don't even have to research any further than Google to know that these shitbags are constantly trying to hit Germany.

Even if we accept the nonsense of your statement, Germany supported OEF.  So here we have a country "intervening" and you're trying to use them as an example of what happens when you don't intervene. 

And if you're trying to argue the 9/11 issue, then how is it that we weren't even the first target?  Surely the great intervener must have been the first target! 

The reality is intervention is one issue.  Cultural, social, political, economic, and religious factors are as well. 

I doubt you can offer any evidence to quantify which was greater.  If anything, the fact that we were not the initial target suggests intervention was not high on their list...but that can't be quantified either.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Jon Stewert is making fun of the audience tonight and the golden rule booing. Saw this coming. The actions of the SC crowd was a real turn off for many people.

[Roger Bacon]

Hey here's an idea, if you think you're arguing with an infant then don't engage me.  Pretty simple.  

Here is what's stupid:  saying "they" attack us because we bomb "them," when "they" and "them" not only haven't been bombed, but "they" don't even cohesively exist.  

You know what else is stupid?  Using the "Golden Rule" at all in this context.  It doesn't make any dang sense.  It was a terrible moment for Ron Paul.

It's pretty cut and dry, they (Al Qaeda, Islamic Extremists) view the Middle East as their home land (as it is).  They certainly aren't justified in killing innocent civilians ever, but we've definitely incited the terrorist threat we're now at war with.

Do you really believe they hate us because we're free?  They hate our Freedom?

If it is because they hate our freedom, haven't we let them win by giving up our freedom through the Patriot Act, and National Defense Authorization Act?

[Freeborn126]

In regards to the golden rule, I have no sympathy for terrorists but look at it from the hypothetical:

If China or some other country that had military power engineered a coup in say, Alabama, and installed a dictator as its new governor, then slapped sanctions on Alabama for decades causing it to go into poverty, then bombed it year after year killing innocent civilians in the process.  Would that not cause Alabama natives to get angry at China and conduct terror attacks against them as an only means of trying to defend their state and stop China from meddling in their affairs? 

Americans need to get their head out of the sand and look at it from a different perspective.  We pay more than enough in taxes to defend our nation's borders from terror attacks without having to nation build overseas. 

[Soul Crusher]

Fast n Furious anyone? 

[sync pulse]

the people in NH were educated.  The people in SC?  LOL... not so much

You kknow what you're getting when you campaign here.  A bunch of d*ck hard, broke pissed off people.  They packed the hall with as many far-right primary voters, and they were rabid for blood.  The first candidate could have come onstage and punched out an old and frail afghan woman, and the crowd would have given him a standing ovation.

I have found that this song accurately describes many white Southeasterners...