Oh God and Jesus , YOU GUYS are just too funny!

[dr.chimps]

no, science will never know. and if there even is an answer, the only possible answer is God.

what does it mean to say God exists? for one, it means life is not entirely meaningless.

I'm an empiricist. Prove it.   

[devilsmile]

Yes, actually.  It happens all the time on the quantum level.  I suggest you watch Dr. Lawrence Krauss'  A Universe From Nothing.

However, your argument defeats itself because I suppose somehow your "god" didn't need a cause, right?

lol @  Proof. And what proof do you have  

Ok I give you some good explanations, you can start from here for so called "proof" about spiritual realms, big name scientists coming to a conclusion that these supernatural "ufo" light phenoms can only be spiritual phenoms because they defy physics.

Very impartial explanations, giving you t he facts, no speculation and you can make up your own mind. To me it makes sense that these are spirits in work, nothing more.

[tbombz]

Yes, actually.  It happens all the time on the quantum level.  I suggest you watch Dr. Lawrence Krauss'  A Universe From Nothing.

However, your argument defeats itself because I suppose somehow your "god" didn't need a cause, right?

you have observed thing on a quantum level ?   my, what an expensive labratory set up you must have..  

hypothetically speaking, lets say you acually did observe a vitual particle pop into existence. the cause of that was a "wuantum fluctuation" ..    and what was the cause of that quantum fluctuation ??     we dont know, and if we find out, we still have to ask , what was the cause of that cause ?  

moreover, the idea that something can happen without an observable cause is teological in of itself.  why did ancient man believe in God? because there was all this phenomena, all this life, and absolutely no cause to be found   must have been done by somebody  


however , all that is just to address where you mind is currently at, first of all you have never observed something happening without cause. everything visible to your eye is completely bound to the laws of causality. its only in the real of theoretical physics that its hypotheisized that that law can break down.  being that neither you or I or anyone else for that matter has ever observed anything happen without a significant cause behidn it, it is completely empirical to assume that the universe has a cause as well.  and there is only one possible cause  

[Growth NOOB]

lol @  Proof. And what proof do you have  

Ok I give you some good explanations, you can start from here for so called "proof" about spiritual realms, big name scientists coming to a conclusion that these supernatural "ufo" light phenoms can only be spiritual phenoms because they defy physics.

Very impartial explanations, giving you t he facts, no speculation and you can make up your own mind. To me it makes sense that these are spirits in work, nothing more.

Is that a serious reply?

A poorly made youtube video about UFOs with some no name "scientist" is proof of the spirit realm.


Why are your standards of evidence so mind bogglingly low?

[tbombz]

I'm an empiricist. Prove it.   

refer to my last post..   god is a possible explanation. and no other explanation is logically possible. BUT as ive said many times before.. it is completely possible there is no explanation.  

if you wish to refute this, either prove that God is in no way possible, or prove the logical possibility of some other explanation.  

[dr.chimps]

you have observed thing on a quantum level ?   my, what an expensive labratory set up you must have..  

hypothetically speaking, lets say you acually did observe a vitual particle pop into existence. the cause of that was a "wuantum fluctuation" ..    and what was the cause of that quantum fluctuation ??     we dont know, and if we find out, we still have to ask , what was the cause of that cause ?  

moreover, the idea that something can happen without an observable cause is teological in of itself.  why did ancient man believe in God? because there was all this phenomena, all this life, and absolutely no cause to be found   must have been done by somebody  


however , all that is just to address where you mind is currently at, first of all you have never observed something happening without cause. everything visible to your eye is completely bound to the laws of causality. its only in the real of theoretical physics that its hypotheisized that that law can break down.  being that neither you or I or anyone else for that matter has ever observed anything happen without a significant cause behidn it, it is completely empirical to assume that the universe has a cause as well.  and there is only one possible cause  

Blah. Blah. Blah. All day to get 'smart,' and no time to get a degree.  

[Growth NOOB]

you have observed thing on a quantum level ?   my, what an expensive labratory set up you must have..  

hypothetically speaking, lets say you acually did observe a vitual particle pop into existence. the cause of that was a "wuantum fluctuation" ..    and what was the cause of that quantum fluctuation ??     we dont know, and if we find out, we still have to ask , what was the cause of that cause ?  

moreover, the idea that something can happen without an observable cause is teological in of itself.  why did ancient man believe in God? because there was all this phenomena, all this life, and absolutely no cause to be found   must have been done by somebody  


however , all that is just to address where you mind is currently at, first of all you have never observed something happening without cause. everything visible to your eye is completely bound to the laws of causality. its only in the real of theoretical physics that its hypotheisized that that law can break down.  being that neither you or I or anyone else for that matter has ever observed anything happen without a significant cause behidn it, it is completely empirical to assume that the universe has a cause as well.  and there is only one possible cause  

You aren't even disagreeing with me.  You are just making assertions about quantum physics.

Again I ask, how is god the only possible cause?  Where is your evidence to support this?  Which god is it?

[johnnynoname]

Uh oh

Someone just said "bible"


This thread is gonna be a long one



And I know you all hate when I say that but you all know I'm right

I LOVE being right

[devilsmile]

lol growth noob  

like I said, even if I give you explanations... you refuse to look at them because you have allready made up your mind.
 It's like I'm playing with ps3, you play with xbox Live and we can't play.

I am willing to give explanations, and that is actually a very WELL MADE youtube documentary and easy to follow video to people who "refuse to read all that shit".

But you're a typical atheist, you refuse to even look at things.

Oh and you have only proven that you are thick headed... you're definetely not right. You demand proof, but refuse to look at them and bring your own proofs

[tbombz]

How the fuck do you know science will never know? Honestly, what an arrogant and moronic thing to claim.

And please explain how the only possible answer is god.  And which god out of the thousands is it?  

ill explain once more..  what caused 1? 2. what caused 2? 3. What caused 3? 4. What caused 4? and so on.

you find a cause for the big bang, add it to the end of the list, and then ask what caused that. find the answer to that question, throw it on the end of the list, and now we must ask what caused it. it never ends. empiricism can never find THE cause, because all empirical findings are subject to questions of causality.

that being said, if there actually is an "explanation", and by that i mean.. if the universe didnt "just happen" for no reason at all... then that explanation has to be "God".

by "God" i do not mean the christian god, the muslim god, the jewish god, the mormon god, or any other man made conception of what a diety might be. i just simply mean "God".  

[Growth NOOB]

refer to my last post..   god is a possible explanation. and no other explanation is logically possible. BUT as ive said many times before.. it is completely possible there is no explanation.  

if you wish to refute this, either prove that God is in no way possible, or prove the logical possibility of some other explanation.  

You have zero understanding on how reason works.  You are the one making the positive assertion.  It is you who must provide evidence to support your claim.  How backwards and dishonest of you is it to tell us we need to prove god doesn't exist or provide another explanation.  The burden of proof is on you.  

[dr.chimps]

refer to my last post..   god is a possible explanation. and no other explanation is logically possible. BUT as ive said many times before.. it is completely possible there is no explanation.  

if you wish to refute this, either prove that God is in no way possible, or prove the logical possibility of some other explanation.  

Anything posited without logic is dismissed with similar (idiotic) logic...

[tbombz]

You have zero understanding on how reason works.  You are the one making the positive assertion.  It is you who must provide evidence to support your claim.  How backwards and dishonest of you is it to tell us we need to prove god doesn't exist or provide another explanation.  The burden of proof is on you.  

i never said god exists. i never asked you to prove he doesnt exist. i simply said, either prove god is not a possibility, or prove that someother explanation for reality is a logical possibility. if you cant do either, then my statement is irrefutable.  

[Growth NOOB]

lol growth noob  

like I said, even if I give you explanations... you refuse to look at them because you have allready made up your mind.
 It's like I'm playing with ps3, you play with xbox Live and we can't play.

I am willing to give explanations, and that is actually a very WELL MADE youtube documentary and easy to follow video to people who "refuse to read all that shit".

But you're a typical atheist, you refuse to even look at things.

Oh and you have only proven that you are thick headed... you're definetely not right. You demand proof, but refuse to look at them and bring your own proofs

Hahaha...

The old "i can tell you but you won't believe me" excuse.  


You are going to have to do better than that  

[tbombz]

Anything posited without logic is dismissed with similar (idiotic) logic...

lmao, i already gave you logic chimps. the burden is now on you. either prove god is not possible, or prove some other explanation is possible. if neither can be done, then my statement stands true.

[Growth NOOB]

ill explain once more..  what caused 1? 2. what caused 2? 3. What caused 3? 4. What caused 4? and so on.

you find a cause for the big bang, add it to the end of the list, and then ask what caused that. find the answer to that question, throw it on the end of the list, and now we must ask what caused it. it never ends. empiricism can never find THE cause, because all empirical findings are subject to questions of causality.

that being said, if there actually is an "explanation", and by that i mean.. if the universe didnt "just happen" for no reason at all... then that explanation has to be "God".

by "God" i do not mean the christian god, the muslim god, the jewish god, the mormon god, or any other man made conception of what a diety might be. i just simply mean "God".  

How the fuck does it have to be god?  

What is "god"?  What are its properties and how do you know it exists?

[devilsmile]

Hahaha...

The old "i can tell you but you won't believe me" excuse.  


You are going to have to do better than that  

lol I just gave you an easy way to see my point of view in the video, easy  to follow. Would you rather have me type you two pages so that you can ignore reading too; "hahaha, nice try to make me waste time reading your garbage, ima go with what the cool guys say"  

Listen, you think you're right, I think I'm right. I allready said that this type of debate is useless between us.

I am clearly wiser so I won't try to debate or talk with you about this- Sokrates

 

[dr.chimps]

lmao, i already gave you logic chimps. the burden is now on you. either prove god is not possible, or prove some other explanation is possible. if neither can be done, then my statement stands true.

No. Plebe. The burden is on you to 'prove' to all of us that 'God' exists. Take your time. And for full marks, please show your work.  

[che]

i never said god exists.

''Maybe God didn't always exist. I actually think that he created himself. which implies that there was a period of non-existence, and then god created himself... got lonely, and created existence.''

                                                                                                                      TBOMBZ

[johnnynoname]

Apparently, "pretentiousness" doesn't take the weekends off

[tbombz]

How the fuck does it have to be god?  

What is "god"?  What are its properties and how do you know it exists?

now your finally starting to come around..


ok

"god"  is simply the supernatural creator and cause of the universe.  i dont mean anything more or less than that. i dont mean god is biblical, i dont mean god is knowable, i dont mean god is human in any way whatsoever, and i dont mean that there is life after death.  the only thing i mean is that there is an entity responsible for creating the universe.

what are gods properties? if god exists, then god would inherently have the power to create, god would be a thinking being, and god would be eternal. outside of these properties, one can not say. nor can one say god actually exists.



why does it have to be god?  because if it wasnt god, then it wasnt anything at all. and thats completely possible. everything just happened to happen. sure, why not. theres no proof god did it, so im not denying that it all might have been complete chance with absolutely no real cause.  but, if there was a cause.. then it HAD TO BE "GOD" (as defined in the above two paragraphs)

[Growth NOOB]

i never said god exists. i never asked you to prove he doesnt exist. i simply said, either prove god is not a possibility, or prove that someother explanation for reality is a logical possibility. if you cant do either, then my statement is irrefutable.  

Wow.

So didn't comprehend at all what I said.  The person making the positive claim must provide the evidence.  How do you not understand that?  

If we can't provide another explanation your statement is irrefutable?  LOL

It's almost as if you looked up the most ridiculous cliche arguments and logical fallacies and are posting them.  What you just said is literally a text book definition of "god of the gaps".  We can;t yet figure this out, so it must be god.  When man didn't understand earthquakes, must be god.    When people got sick and we didn't know about germs yet, must be god.  

Do you see why your argument is absolutely absurd?  

[tbombz]

No. Plebe. The burden is on you to 'prove' to all of us that 'God' exists. Take your time. And for full marks, please show your work.  

im sorry, have you been reading this thread? i never once said god existed.  charlatan...

[johnnynoname]

I like how God's spokesperson is some 23 year old knob polisher from the suburbs


Oh brother

[dr.chimps]

now your finally starting to come around..


ok

"god"  is simply the supernatural creator and cause of the universe.  i dont mean anything more or less than that. i dont mean god is biblical, i dont mean god is knowable, i dont mean god is human in any way whatsoever, and i dont mean that there is life after death.  the only thing i mean is that there is an entity responsible for creating the universe.

what are gods properties? if god exists, then god would inherently have the power to create, god would be a thinking being, and god would be eternal. outside of these properties, one can not say. nor can one say god actually exists.



why does it have to be god?  because if it wasnt god, then it wasnt anything at all. and thats completely possible. everything just happened to happen. sure, why not. theres no proof god did it, so im not denying that it all might have been complete chance with absolutely no real cause.  but, if there was a cause.. then it HAD TO BE "GOD" (as defined in the above two paragraphs)

Utter nonsense.