Pictures of Zimmerman's bloody head.

[Option D]

Yeah - I am the guy that came and pissed and took a big dump on your Hope and Change parade and media driven narratives. 

i have zero clue on what the fuck youre talking about

[The True Adonis]

You want me to play this stupid ass game with you.. The semantics game.. and im not... because when i trip you up.. you just say "ohhh i was was just bustin balls" or some other kind of lame excuse. You know what the fuck you are.

You have to admit though, you and some of the others got absolutely PWNED with this Zimmerman thing.  In fact, the lot of you still want to cling to a sinking ship rather than simply admit that you were easily fooled and misled.

[Option D]

You have to admit though, you and some of the others got absolutely PWNED with this Zimmerman thing.  In fact, the lot of you still want to cling to a sinking ship rather than simply admit that you were easily fooled and misled.

Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.

My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.

[The True Adonis]

Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.

My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.

I`d rather live in a country that doesn`t arrest for trumped up charges.

[Soul Crusher]

Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.

My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.

Stick to dissecting frogs doc.   There were no grounds whatsoever 2nd degree then or now! 

[Option D]

I`d rather live in a country that doesn`t arrest for trumped up charges.

Well i wouldnt actually describe this situation as "trumped up"

Guy standing over dead body...police come...."hey what happened here"...Guy replies "hey.. he came at me bro..had to down him"
Police respond... "oh ok.. youre cool"..

[Straw Man]

Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.

My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.

especially considering the dead guy was unarmed and not commiting any crime

[Fury]

Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.

My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.

Arrested for committing what crime at the time of the event?

I find it funny how quickly the lynch mob is willing to throw out the rule of law when something happens that they don't like. Shit, why not arrest everyone in the country and then we can determine if they committed crimes so then we can hold them.  

People, even those who are quite intelligent, can be such sheeple.

[tonymctones]

Well i wouldnt actually describe this situation as "trumped up"

Guy standing over dead body...police come...."hey what happened here"...Guy replies "hey.. he came at me bro..had to down him"
Police respond... "oh ok.. youre cool"..

except there was an eye witness that saw trayvon on top of zimmerman fighting seconds before the shooting....

You cant arrest someone simply b/c you want to, you need evidence...

what evidence is there at all that zimmerman commited a crime?

not that he made a shitty decision, that he commited a CRIME?

[240 is Back]

except there was an eye witness that saw trayvon on top of zimmerman fighting seconds before the shooting....

You cant arrest someone simply b/c you want to, you need evidence...

what evidence is there at all that zimmerman commited a crime?

not that he made a shitty decision, that he commited a CRIME?

the eyewitness only tells us that zimmerman was losing a fight.

not who started the fight. 

And there are a Lot of times when a person is convicted of a crime even when there isn't a 'witness who saw the whole damn thing'.

[Shockwave]

the eyewitness only tells us that zimmerman was losing a fight.

not who started the fight. 

And there are a Lot of times when a person is convicted of a crime even when there isn't a 'witness who saw the whole damn thing'.

You keep saying this, not once have you been able to back it up.
Especially when the defendant has some evidence to corroborate his story and the prosecution has nothing to prove his story wrong.
I maintain you cant be this stupid - no one can be this ignorant of the legal system.

Innocent until proven guilty means his story is automatically 100% truth unless the prosecution can prove it wrong. Deal with it.

[Straw Man]

You keep saying this, not once have you been able to back it up.Especially when the defendant has some evidence to corroborate his story and the prosecution has nothing to prove his story wrong.
I maintain you cant be this stupid - no one can be this ignorant of the legal system.

Innocent until proven guilty means his story is automatically 100% truth unless the prosecution can prove it wrong. Deal with it.

there are plenty of cases where people are convicted without any eyewitness

Here's a case where there was an eyewitness who saw the event and corroborated the shooters story and he was still convicted.  This case seems unbelievable since the shooter was defending himself and family on his own
property from an armed assailant who kept advancing even when given a warning shot.  If this doesn't count as self defence much less "stand your ground" then what the heck does?

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/

[tonymctones]

the eyewitness only tells us that zimmerman was losing a fight.

not who started the fight.  

And there are a Lot of times when a person is convicted of a crime even when there isn't a 'witness who saw the whole damn thing'.

never said it did, what it does do though is help corroberate part of zimmermans story which is more than can be said for any of the assinine speculation you have.

You dont arrest someone b/c you feel they are lying, you need EVIDENCE!!!

what evidence do you have that he commited a crime?

[tonymctones]

there are plenty of cases where people are convicted without any eyewitness

Here's a case where there was an eyewitness who saw the event and corroborated the shooters story and he was still convicted.  This case seems unbelievable since the shooter was defending himself and family on his own
property from an armed assailant who kept advancing even when given a warning shot.  If this doesn't count as self defence much less "stand your ground" then what the heck does?

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/

not quite the same bro, in this case there was no physical altercation. He didnt have his head beat into the concrete or a supposed broken nose.

This guy was coming towards him with nothing in his hands(although he did have a pocket knife in his pocket) and he got shot.

Im not saying I think what this guy did was right or wrong, I dont think he should be serving a life sentence. If somebody pointed a knife at me or a friend let alone a child or my child I would probably have reacted the same way.

but to compare the two instances isnt right, in one instance you have a proven altercation in which the person who shot was losing and feared for his life. In the other you have no altercation and a guy coming towards him with no weapon in hand.

[Straw Man]

not quite the same bro, in this case there was no physical altercation. He didnt have his head beat into the concrete or a supposed broken nose.

This guy was coming towards him with nothing in his hands(although he did have a pocket knife in his pocket) and he got shot.

Im not saying I think what this guy did was right or wrong, I dont think he should be serving a life sentence. If somebody pointed a knife at me or a friend let alone a child or my child I would probably have reacted the same way.

but to compare the two instances isnt right, in one instance you have a proven altercation in which the person who shot was losing and feared for his life. In the other you have no altercation and a guy coming towards him with no weapon in hand.

I presented this is response to Shockwaves question to 240

In regard to your comments the dead guy in this case had a history of threatening behavior, was previously warned was on the guys property and was armed (albeit with a pocket knife but that's more than Zimmerman had) and advancing toward him and didn't stop when given a warning shot.  Also, the shooter was not arrested until a year after the event

btw -I don't buy Zimmermans claim that he was in mortal danger and needed to use deadly force. I know it's his "story" but I don't buy it and I don't think his injuries support it.

[tonymctones]

I presented this is response to Shockwaves question to 240

In regard to your comments the dead guy in this case had a history of threatening behavior, was previously warned was on the guys property and was armed (albeit with a pocket knife but that's more than Zimmerman had) and advancing toward him and didn't stop when given a warning shot.  Also, the shooter was not arrested until a year after the event

btw -I don't buy Zimmermans claim that he was in mortal danger and needed to use deadly force. I know it's his "story" but I don't buy it and I don't think his injuries support it.

He knew the guy had a knife at one time, he didnt know the guy had a knife in his pocket. If you use that logic then zimmerman could say he thought trayvon had something as he saw him put something in his pocket while walking around.

I know you dont buy it but then again, youve never really been in a physical altercation going off of any of your posts. Let alone one that you feel your life could have been in jeopardy.

You think that just b/c the wounds werent life threatening means he isnt justfied in using that as a defense.

At the time you dont know whats going on or how bad your injuries are. Do you know how to tell the difference between a life threatening head wound and one that may just need stiches when your heads being bounced off the concrete?

[The True Adonis]

He knew the guy had a knife at one time, he didnt know the guy had a knife in his pocket. If you use that logic then zimmerman could say he thought trayvon had something as he saw him put something in his pocket while walking around.

I know you dont buy it but then again, youve never really been in a physical altercation going off of any of your posts. Let alone one that you feel your life could have been in jeopardy.

You think that just b/c the wounds werent life threatening means he isnt justfied in using that as a defense.

At the time you dont know whats going on or how bad your injuries are. Do you know how to tell the difference between a life threatening head wound and one that may just need stiches when your heads being bounced off the concrete?

Exactly.  Liam Neeson`s wife dropped dead as a result of a light head injury and she did not seek medical attention as it was not serious from the outset, but surely proved fatal.

[The True Adonis]

I presented this is response to Shockwaves question to 240

In regard to your comments the dead guy in this case had a history of threatening behavior, was previously warned was on the guys property and was armed (albeit with a pocket knife but that's more than Zimmerman had) and advancing toward him and didn't stop when given a warning shot.  Also, the shooter was not arrested until a year after the event

btw -I don't buy Zimmermans claim that he was in mortal danger and needed to use deadly force. I know it's his "story" but I don't buy it and I don't think his injuries support it.

On 16 March 2009, Richardson sustained a head injury when she fell while taking a beginner skiing lesson at the Mont Tremblant Resort in Quebec, Canada about 80 miles (130 km) from Montreal. The injury was followed by a lucid interval, when Richardson seemed to be fine and was able to talk and act normally. Paramedics and an ambulance which initially responded to the accident were told they were not needed and left.[18] Refusing medical attention twice, she returned to her hotel room and about three hours later was taken to a local hospital in Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts after complaining of a headache.[19][20] She was transferred from there by ambulance to Hôpital du Sacré-Cœur, Montreal, in critical condition and was admitted about seven hours after the fall.[21][22] The following day she was flown to Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, where she died on 18 March.[1][23] An autopsy conducted by the New York City Medical Examiners Office on 19 March revealed the cause of death was an "epidural hematoma due to blunt impact to the head", and her death was ruled an accident.[

[Soul Crusher]

TA is getting wiser as he ages.   

[Straw Man]

He knew the guy had a knife at one time, he didnt know the guy had a knife in his pocket. If you use that logic then zimmerman could say he thought trayvon had something as he saw him put something in his pocket while walking around.

I know you dont buy it but then again, youve never really been in a physical altercation going off of any of your posts. Let alone one that you feel your life could have been in jeopardy.

You think that just b/c the wounds werent life threatening means he isnt justfied in using that as a defense.

At the time you dont know whats going on or how bad your injuries are. Do you know how to tell the difference between a life threatening head wound and one that may just need stiches when your heads being bounced off the concrete?

first of all let's be clear.  I don't agree with John McNeil being charged with murder or serving a life sentence

second, I'm 45 years old and I'm a big guy and I have been since about 16 years old.   The last time I was in any kind of a fight was maybe late teens early twenties but I went to a public high school in Texas and got in fights, clearly none that were life threatening.  Usually I was the one starting it because I was bigger and felt confident.   Eventually you grow up and mature and learn how to avoid fighting.

let's compare the two dead people

Martin - not threatening anyone, not carrying a weapon, not known to the person who killed him or having any prior contact where he threatened his killer, not on his killers property, etc...

Epp - prior aggressive behaviour and arguments with McNeil,  according to the story "Epp pointed a folding utility knife at McNeil's childs face and said "why don't you make me leave",   Epp then turns around and goes to his truck and puts something in his pocket, then approaches McNeil in an aggressive manner and doesn't stop when given a warning shot

those are the two set ups

do you see any differences?

[tonymctones]

first of all let's be clear.  I don't agree with John McNeil being charged with murder or serving a life sentence

second, I'm 45 years old and I'm a big guy and I have been since about 16 years old.   The last time I was in any kind of a fight was maybe late teens early twenties but I went to a public high school in Texas and got in fights, clearly none that were life threatening.  Usually I was the one starting it because I was bigger and felt confident.   Eventually you grow up and mature and learn how to avoid fighting.

let's compare the two dead people

Martin - not threatening anyone, not carrying a weapon, not known to the person who killed him or having any prior contact where he threatened his killer, not on his killers property, etc...

Epp - prior aggressive behaviour and arguments with McNeil,  according to the story "Epp pointed a folding utility knife at McNeil's childs face and said "why don't you make me leave",   Epp then turns around and goes to his truck and puts something in his pocket, then approaches McNeil in an aggressive manner and doesn't stop when given a warning shot

those are the two set ups

do you see any differences?

and I bet all those fights were probably simple little fist fights where everyone goes home at the end of the day maybe you get a fat lip or black eye but thats about it?

shit doesnt happen like that anymore bro, ppl die for looking at ppl wrong or saying the wrong thing even if it wasnt meant in the way it was taken.

Ive seen ppl shot/stabbed for trivial ass shit, trust me these days in a fight your life is in danger much much more than it was when you were growing up.

LMFAO so you think bashing someones head into the concrete while on top of them isnt threatening anyone?

no the story is the guy pointed a knife at his sone while he was on the phone with his dad. The guy who shot wasnt at home when that took place he got home and they guy was in a neighbors drive way or something. He got home exchanged words, grabbed his gun and they guy started at him, he shot a warning shot, they guy didnt stop and then shot him in the head.

not two stories that can be compared if you ask me.

You conviently leave out the fact that trayvon was assualting zimmerman, why?

[Straw Man]

Exactly.  Liam Neeson`s wife dropped dead as a result of a light head injury and she did not seek medical attention as it was not serious from the outset, but surely proved fatal.

yep and that's why I expect the ambulance to take Zimmerman to the hospital if he had any kind of potential serious head injury

if he had a broken nose that should be known my now too

let's be perfectly clear, I have no doubt that Zimmerman THOUGHT he was in mortal danger but from what we know from the info the public domain that clearly does not appear to be the case

[Soul Crusher]

yep and that's why I expect the ambulance to take Zimmerman to the hospital if he had any kind of potential serious head injury

if he had a broken nose that should be known my now too

let's be perfectly clear, I have no doubt that Zimmerman THOUGHT he was in mortal danger but from what we know from the info the public domain that clearly does not appear to be the case

That.  Is what the whole case will boil down to under the "reasonable person" standard. 

Usually if the reasonable person felt his life was in danger under those circumstances Zimm will walk.   If the reasonable person should not felt his life was in danger, Zimm has problems, but not for second degree murder, which is a bogus charge. 

[Straw Man]

LMFAO so you think bashing someones head into the concrete while on top of them isnt threatening anyone?
no the story is the guy pointed a knife at his sone while he was on the phone with his dad. The guy who shot wasnt at home when that took place he got home and they guy was in a neighbors drive way or something. He got home exchanged words, grabbed his gun and they guy started at him, he shot a warning shot, they guy didnt stop and then shot him in the head.

not to stories that can be compared if you ask me.

You conviently leave out the fact that trayvon was assualting zimmerman, why?

I leave it out because there is no proof

Zimmerman could have assaulted Martin and scraped his head in the process

I haven't seen any proof of that his head was bashed into the concrete one time, much less for a minute as he claims

I don't see any proof, at this point, for the need of deadly force

I think Zimmerman fucked up and killed this guy unnecessarily and without a justifiable cause

I'm aware that is solely my  opinion and I'm open to new information

[tonymctones]

yep and that's why I expect the ambulance to take Zimmerman to the hospital if he had any kind of potential serious head injury

if he had a broken nose that should be known my now too

let's be perfectly clear, I have no doubt that Zimmerman THOUGHT he was in mortal danger but from what we know from the info the public domain that clearly does not appear to be the case

do you know what the EMT's report was?

I bet you they told zimmerman that he should go to the hospital but he decided against it.

I agree on the broken nose but then again that isnt something you have to go to the doctor for either. Ive had dislocated fingers, probably a broken toe and I didnt go to the doctor.

Know why?

My mom told me that the doctor wouldnt be able to do much if anything for me anyway...LOL

my point is some ppl dont go to the doctor unless they HAVE TO...