The Atheist Thread

[avxo]

You don't?

Certainly not by Noah.

[Man of Steel]

Certainly not by Noah.

I simply don't know what is meant by "kinds of animals" in the Genesis.  I doubt it means species as we define it, so the population of animals must've been much smaller than we realize.  Again, I simply don't know.

[garebear]

.

[avxo]

I simply don't know what is meant by "kinds of animals" in the Genesis.  I doubt it means species as we define it, so the population of animals must've been much smaller than we realize.  Again, I simply don't know.

So then, after the flood, new animals - the ones we observe today - were created by God?

[OTHstrong]

So then, after the flood, new animals - the ones we observe today - were created by God?

Bro there is not that many different types of animals, remember we are talking about 1 kind of animal, so all apes fit under one animal, the zebra, the donkey, and the horse is one animal. The big cats like Lions and tigers are one animal, you see, I bet you can not name 100 different mammals and they are the only ones taking up space and not that much cause they would have been Babies, obviously not full grown.

[avxo]

Bro there is not that many different types of animals

*blink* you're kidding, right? I mean really... take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal when you get a chance.

remember we are talking about 1 kind of animal, so all apes fit under one animal

While an orangutan and a chimpanzee may both belong in the hominidae family, I doubt that's what you refer to since they are in that family along with humans. Each, of course, is a distinct genus.  

the zebra, the donkey, and the horse is one animal

They aren't one animal. They are three distinct genera.

The big cats like Lions and tigers are one animal

They aren't one animal. The are two distinct species.


I have to ask Onetimehard: do you have any scientific education? I mean, bare minimum stuff. Your posts suggest a complete and utter cluelessness and the fact is that you're obviously talking out of your ass, making shit up as you go and taking words and using them in whatever way you want and meanings be damned. That's not how it works.


Ignoring the fact that you make this ridiculous assertion without even the typical and flimsy "biblical basis" that is usually employed in such cases, let assume for a second - just for a second - that you are right. How do you account for these distinct animals today. I mean, you have orangutans and chimpanzees and gorillas, all very clearly distinct. They're all supposed to be the same animal? You have tigers and lions and very clearly distinct. They're  supposed to be the same animal? How do you account for the horses, zebras and donkeys, all very clearly distinct? They are supposed to be the same animal?

you see, I bet you can not name 100 different mammals

I'm fairly certain that there's well over 5,000 different species of mammals recognized by science today, so 100 shouldn't be a problem... but then again, those crazy scientists don't use your "grouping" scheme that classifies horses, donkeys and zebras as "one animal". But let's try to play along and use your ridiculous "pulled out of your ass" definition by trying to avoid enumerating the over 100 different bats that exist in the world today. Are you ready asshole? Let's go.

aardvark, agouta, alpaca, anteater, antelope, armadillo
badger, bandicoot, banteng, bat, bear, beaver, bilbies, bison, boar
camel, capybara, caribou, chamois, chinchilla, civet, cuscus
deer, desmana, dibbler, dolphin, dugong
echidna, elephant
ferret
galago, gazelle, gerbil, gibbon, giraffe, goat
hare, hedgehog, hippopotamus, human, hyena, hyrax
jackal
kaluta, kangaroo, koala
lemur, lion, llama, lynx
manatee, meerkat, mink, mole, mongoose, monkey, moose, mouse
narwhal, numbat
ocarro, ocelot, opossum, orca, otter, ox
panda, pangolin, pig, pika, platypus, porcupine, porpoise
quoll
rabbit, raccoon, rhinoceros
saola, sea lion, seal, sengi, sheep, shrew, skunk, sloth, slow loris, squirrel, stoat
tamaraw, tapir, Tasmanian devil, tenrec
vole
wallaby, walrus, wambengers, weasel, wombat
zebra

and they are the only ones taking up space and not that much cause they would have been Babies, obviously not full grown.

Oh well... obviously they would have been babies! Clearly they don't take up much space. Ignore the smallest of issues: the fact that mammal "babies" require suckling from their mother.

 

[tbombz]

This... I could go for a 500 or 1000 year lifespan: imagine what you could learn, what you could do. But at some point, eternity would get boring. What good is living if you've done everything there is to do and learned everything there is to learn. And it would only take a finite amount of time to do those things.

^^^ LOL !!!!!

YOUR ASSUMING THAT KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE, AND HAPPINESS ARE ALL FINITE IN NATURE, YOU FOOL.

I don't buy this answer. To date no one has been able to formulate a cogent argument explaining why god would create us, only to put us through a test and judge us, punishing us if we fail. And it gets even worse when you throw omniscience into the mix.

 STOP THINKING IN TERMS OF WHAT "THE BIBLE" TELLS YOU. OPEN UP YOUR MIND, JACKASS!!!      YOU CANT THINK OF ANY REASON WHY AN ETERNAL BEING MIGHT WANT SOME COMPANY ??  

You're right. It's all fun and games... just fun and games. Eight-year olds begging to die to end the suffering from cancer?? It's fun and games... Children dying of hunger or malnutrition by the dozen? It's fun and games... Women attacked and horribly burned with acid? It's fun and games... Children sold, branded soldiers and used as cannon fodder? It's fun and games...

YOU DISGUST AND OFFEND ME.

THE FUNNY THING IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SPIRITUAL OPTIMISM OFTEN TIMES COMES FROM THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SUFFERED THROUGH SUCH ATROCITIES 

First of all, why judge at all? Second, the "accordingly" is nonsense. Sin is sin, and the wages of sin is death.

 OH LOOK!!!  AVXO KNOWS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!!! THAT MEANS HE MUST BE A GOOD PERSON TO GO TO FOR YOUR ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE EXISTENCE OF GOD!!!   LOL!!!!     HEY, JACKASSS!!!!! WAKE UP!!!!  BIBLE WAS CREATED BY MAN!!! NOT GOD!!!! WHY YOU TALK ABOUT MANS CREATION IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT GOD IS FUCKING STUPID AS SHIT!!!!!  

[OTHstrong]

*blink* you're kidding, right? I mean really... take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal when you get a chance.


While an orangutan and a chimpanzee may both belong in the hominidae family, I doubt that's what you refer to since they are in that family along with humans. Each, of course, is a distinct genus. 


They aren't one animal. They are three distinct genera.


They aren't one animal. The are two distinct species.


I have to ask Onetimehard: do you have any scientific education? I mean, bare minimum stuff. Your posts suggest a complete and utter cluelessness and the fact is that you're obviously talking out of your ass, making shit up as you go and taking words and using them in whatever way you want and meanings be damned. That's not how it works.


Ignoring the fact that you make this ridiculous assertion without even the typical and flimsy "biblical basis" that is usually employed in such cases, let assume for a second - just for a second - that you are right. How do you account for these distinct animals today. I mean, you have orangutans and chimpanzees and gorillas, all very clearly distinct. They're all supposed to be the same animal? You have tigers and lions and very clearly distinct. They're  supposed to be the same animal? How do you account for the horses, zebras and donkeys, all very clearly distinct? They are supposed to be the same animal?


I'm fairly certain that there's well over 5,000 different species of mammals recognized by science today, so 100 shouldn't be a problem... but then again, those crazy scientists don't use your "grouping" scheme that classifies horses, donkeys and zebras as "one animal". But let's try to play along and use your ridiculous "pulled out of your ass" definition by trying to avoid enumerating the over 100 different bats that exist in the world today. Are you ready asshole? Let's go.

aardvark, agouta, alpaca, anteater, antelope, armadillo
badger, bandicoot, banteng, bat, bear, beaver, bilbies, bison, boar
camel, capybara, caribou, chamois, chinchilla, civet, cuscus
deer, desmana, dibbler, dolphin, dugong
echidna, elephant
ferret
galago, gazelle, gerbil, gibbon, giraffe, goat
hare, hedgehog, hippopotamus, human, hyena, hyrax
jackal
kaluta, kangaroo, koala
lemur, lion, llama, lynx
manatee, meerkat, mink, mole, mongoose, monkey, moose, mouse
narwhal, numbat
ocarro, ocelot, opossum, orca, otter, ox
panda, pangolin, pig, pika, platypus, porcupine, porpoise
quoll
rabbit, raccoon, rhinoceros
saola, sea lion, seal, sengi, sheep, shrew, skunk, sloth, slow loris, squirrel, stoat
tamaraw, tapir, Tasmanian devil, tenrec
vole
wallaby, walrus, wambengers, weasel, wombat
zebra




Oh well... obviously they would have been babies! Clearly they don't take up much space. Ignore the smallest of issues: the fact that mammal "babies" require suckling from their mother.

 

Well as soon as you get it through your thick skull that the terms you classify those animals under are what you believe the interpretation of the Bible is, I am telling you right now that this is not what the Bible means, you can not apply your 20th century terminology on what you think Noah brought into the Arké

So listen up, Bible lesson 101, there was no zebra, donkey and horse in the Ark, there was only one, and who gives a rats ass on you classifying them as different species, the Bible DOES NOT, GET OVER IT.

[OTHstrong]

aardvark, agouta, alpaca, anteater, antelope, armadillo
badger, bandicoot, banteng, bat, bear, beaver, bilbies, bison, boar
camel, capybara, caribou, chamois, chinchilla, civet, cuscus
deer, desmana, dibbler, dolphin, dugong
echidna, elephant
ferret
galago, gazelle, gerbil, gibbon, giraffe, goat
hare, hedgehog, hippopotamus, human, hyena, hyrax
jackal
kaluta, kangaroo, koala
lemur, lion, llama, lynx
manatee, meerkat, mink, mole, mongoose, monkey, moose, mouse
narwhal, numbat
ocarro, ocelot, opossum, orca, otter, ox
panda, pangolin, pig, pika, platypus, porcupine, porpoise
quoll
rabbit, raccoon, rhinoceros
saola, sea lion, seal, sengi, sheep, shrew, skunk, sloth, slow loris, squirrel, stoat
tamaraw, tapir, Tasmanian devil, tenrec
vole
wallaby, walrus, wambengers, weasel, wombat
zebra
 

see what I mean you struggled making that list the size it was and that only fills up a small room considering the animals on the ark where all babies.  Thanks for proving my point.

[avxo]

Well as soon as you get it through your thick skull that the terms you classify those animals under are what you believe the interpretation of the Bible is, I am telling you right now that this is not what the Bible means, you can not apply your 20th century terminology on what you think Noah brought into the Arké

So listen up, Bible lesson 101, there was no zebra, donkey and horse in the Ark, there was only one, and who gives a rats ass on you classifying them as different species, the Bible DOES NOT, GET OVER IT.

No you assert that there were no zebras, donkeys, and horses in the ark, but provide no proof. You assert that the Bible doesn't mean what it says: that two of every animal were in the ark, but only some species but you, again, provide no evidence for it. There's a difference between what you assert but can't prove and what is actually said in the text.

Besides, if, say, zebras weren't in the arc, where did zebras come from? And if they were, actually, babies (so as to "not take up much space") who suckled them? Mammalian babies require suckling. Did you know that?

And let's not forget that there are animals other than mammals - like reptiles and insects and even birds! Don't conveniently forget those when you're making shit up.

aardvark, agouta, alpaca, anteater, antelope, armadillo
badger, bandicoot, banteng, bat, bear, beaver, bilbies, bison, boar
camel, capybara, caribou, chamois, chinchilla, civet, cuscus
deer, desmana, dibbler, dolphin, dugong
echidna, elephant
ferret
galago, gazelle, gerbil, gibbon, giraffe, goat
hare, hedgehog, hippopotamus, human, hyena, hyrax
jackal
kaluta, kangaroo, koala
lemur, lion, llama, lynx
manatee, meerkat, mink, mole, mongoose, monkey, moose, mouse
narwhal, numbat
ocarro, ocelot, opossum, orca, otter, ox
panda, pangolin, pig, pika, platypus, porcupine, porpoise
quoll
rabbit, raccoon, rhinoceros
saola, sea lion, seal, sengi, sheep, shrew, skunk, sloth, slow loris, squirrel, stoat
tamaraw, tapir, Tasmanian devil, tenrec
vole
wallaby, walrus, wambengers, weasel, wombat
zebra
 

see what I mean you struggled making that list the size it was and that only fills up a small room considering the animals on the ark where all babies.  Thanks for proving my point.

The only struggle was sorting it. I don't see how this list proves your "point" (and I use the term loosely). Allot proves is that you lost the bet that you made by challenging me to name 100 different mammals


Of course, it was a stupid bet to begin with and you had already lost when you hit "Post" since as I said, there's over 5000 different mammals, so 100 is less than 2% of mammals.

[garebear]

Bro there is not that many different types of animals, remember we are talking about 1 kind of animal, so all apes fit under one animal, the zebra, the donkey, and the horse is one animal. The big cats like Lions and tigers are one animal, you see, I bet you can not name 100 different mammals and they are the only ones taking up space and not that much cause they would have been Babies, obviously not full grown.

this made me laugh

[OTHstrong]

this made me laugh

Why? please explain 

[Necrosis]

Why? please explain 

Dude, how did noah get the grizzly bear? did he travel across the oceans? What did the carnivores eat? jesus, I can't believe I'm responding to this

what is happening to my life when I take the time to point out how retarded something like this is.

[OTHstrong]

Dude, how did noah get the grizzly bear? did he travel across the oceans? What did the carnivores eat? jesus, I can't believe I'm responding to this

what is happening to my life when I take the time to point out how retarded something like this is.

So you know where Noah lived?, funny cause I do not and I have read more Bible then you, you know where the animals lived?. Where they lived today does not mean they lived there before the flood, wow you must have some super powers to know all this. 

[avxo]

So you know where Noah lived?, funny cause I do not and I have read more Bible then you, you know where the animals lived?. Where they lived today does not mean they lived there before the flood, wow you must have some super powers to know all this. 

But you know that zebras, horses and donkeys are one animal for ark purposes; that lions and tigers and other big cars are one animal for ark purposes. You know that despite the Bible never saying anything to that effect.

But you know that the male and female zebra-donkey-horses were "babies" to not take up a lot of space; that the lion-tiger-bigcats were "babies" to not take a lot of space. You know that despite the Bible never saying anything to that effect.

Why superpowers do you have to know all this? To pull nonsense out of your ass to explain a nonsense story while pretending that it's all perfectly rational and sensible?

[Necrosis]

So you know where Noah lived?, funny cause I do not and I have read more Bible then you, you know where the animals lived?. Where they lived today does not mean they lived there before the flood, wow you must have some super powers to know all this. 

avxo's response is lulz but I am using logic. Certain animals as you know require unique climates, say the polar bear. This fact alone would allow me to deduce that they would have to be in a northern region such as the baffin islands, the artic etc. Now Noah is but one man so I would assume that he lived in a relatively small geographical region, unless of course, he can multiply himself. Now based off those simply truths he would have to travel amazing distances to obtain said animals, or animals would have to venture towards him.

Polar bears is just one example,Kangaroos? did they hop across the ocean?

Granted all animals were within distance, the climates would have to be dramatically different for them to survive as it is not their habitat. My view takes little to no contortion, while your's requires great leaps to supply your story.

[tbombz]

This... I could go for a 500 or 1000 year lifespan: imagine what you could learn, what you could do. But at some point, eternity would get boring. What good is living if you've done everything there is to do and learned everything there is to learn. And it would only take a finite amount of time to do those things.

^^^ LOL !!!!!

YOUR ASSUMING THAT KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE, AND HAPPINESS ARE ALL FINITE IN NATURE, YOU FOOL.

I don't buy this answer. To date no one has been able to formulate a cogent argument explaining why god would create us, only to put us through a test and judge us, punishing us if we fail. And it gets even worse when you throw omniscience into the mix.

 STOP THINKING IN TERMS OF WHAT "THE BIBLE" TELLS YOU. OPEN UP YOUR MIND, JACKASS!!!      YOU CANT THINK OF ANY REASON WHY AN ETERNAL BEING MIGHT WANT SOME COMPANY ?? 

You're right. It's all fun and games... just fun and games. Eight-year olds begging to die to end the suffering from cancer?? It's fun and games... Children dying of hunger or malnutrition by the dozen? It's fun and games... Women attacked and horribly burned with acid? It's fun and games... Children sold, branded soldiers and used as cannon fodder? It's fun and games...

YOU DISGUST AND OFFEND ME.

THE FUNNY THING IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SPIRITUAL OPTIMISM OFTEN TIMES COMES FROM THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SUFFERED THROUGH SUCH ATROCITIES 

First of all, why judge at all? Second, the "accordingly" is nonsense. Sin is sin, and the wages of sin is death.

  OH LOOK!!!  AVXO KNOWS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!!! THAT MEANS HE MUST BE A GOOD PERSON TO GO TO FOR YOUR ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE EXISTENCE OF GOD!!!   LOL!!!!      HEY, JACKASSS!!!!! WAKE UP!!!!  BIBLE WAS CREATED BY MAN!!! NOT GOD!!!! WHY YOU TALK ABOUT MANS CREATION IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT GOD IS FUCKING STUPID AS SHIT!!!!!   

[Necrosis]

 



 STOP THINKING IN TERMS OF WHAT "THE BIBLE" TELLS YOU. OPEN UP YOUR MIND, JACKASS!!!      YOU CANT THINK OF ANY REASON WHY AN ETERNAL BEING MIGHT WANT SOME COMPANY ?? 

thinking as we know it is a temporal thing, not sure how an eternal being would think.

[garebear]

this made me laugh

Sorry, I was on my Kindle Fire and had trouble highlighting the part about there not being many types of animals.

Were you being serious about that?

[OTHstrong]

But you know that zebras, horses and donkeys are one animal for ark purposes; that lions and tigers and other big cars are one animal for ark purposes. You know that despite the Bible never saying anything to that effect.

But you know that the male and female zebra-donkey-horses were "babies" to not take up a lot of space; that the lion-tiger-bigcats were "babies" to not take a lot of space. You know that despite the Bible never saying anything to that effect.

Why superpowers do you have to know all this? To pull nonsense out of your ass to explain a nonsense story while pretending that it's all perfectly rational and sensible?

Bro you are like the smartest one here and now you decide to play dumb, really? I expected a lot more from you  ... So someone wants to bring animals into the Ark for over 1 year to preserve them and you some how think it is more logical to bring in a 10 000lb elephant then a 300lb elephant, really bro? WOW, JUST WOW

The Bible uses the term ''after their kind" so yes it is indicating that the Zebra, donkey and horse are "one kind", bro I have studied the Bible a lot more then you and have read it front to back every single year, you really want to challange me on what the Bible says?

Are you familiar with Jacob and how he took care of Laben's cattle?... Well this is a fascinating story cause it clearly states that the cattle that pro-created had speckled and stripe off-springs, weird right? So yes the Bible considers the Zebra and the horse one species. Furthermore the Bible is clear the term "kind" is referring to pro-creating, if they are capable of having off-spring the Bible classifies this as "one kind" and yes the Lion and the Tiger can procreate but I do not think a Lion and a big car can pro-create  could be wrong though

Go read your Bible before making false statements about it please 

[OTHstrong]

avxo's response is lulz but I am using logic. Certain animals as you know require unique climates, say the polar bear. This fact alone would allow me to deduce that they would have to be in a northern region such as the baffin islands, the artic etc. Now Noah is but one man so I would assume that he lived in a relatively small geographical region, unless of course, he can multiply himself. Now based off those simply truths he would have to travel amazing distances to obtain said animals, or animals would have to venture towards him.

Polar bears is just one example,Kangaroos? did they hop across the ocean?

Granted all animals were within distance, the climates would have to be dramatically different for them to survive as it is not their habitat. My view takes little to no contortion, while your's requires great leaps to supply your story.

Valid point, see is that so hard for you to do? bring a valid point and we will discuss it instead of always mocking and insulting.

OK a few things that you need to know about the Biblical Narrative. 1. is the pre-flood world was globally tropical, the Bible states the four seasons started after the flood and there is evidence to back this up since we know that the glaciers once had a tropical environment. Some theologians believe that the world wide catastrophe of flood was precisely related to the 23 degree tilting of the earth and there is evidence of the tilt not being there in the past as well. Also it did not rain before the flood so the climate was completely different then the climate we have today.

[OTHstrong]

Oh I almost forgot LOL at avxo putting Dolphins on the list of 100 he provided, lmao        

[Necrosis]

Valid point, see is that so hard for you to do? bring a valid point and we will discuss it instead of always mocking and insulting.

OK a few things that you need to know about the Biblical Narrative. 1. is the pre-flood world was globally tropical, the Bible states the four seasons started after the flood and there is evidence to back this up since we know that the glaciers once had a tropical environment. Some theologians believe that the world wide catastrophe of flood was precisely related to the 23 degree tilting of the earth and there is evidence of the tilt not being there in the past as well. Also it did not rain before the flood so the climate was completely different then the climate we have today.

Let's concede that the earth had no tilt ( a dubious claim) and was generally tropical. The vast geological distances still rebuke your story. Seriously, what you wrote is pure screed.

Let's look at some other problems:

what did that carnivores eat?
what did the herbivores eat? (would have to be quite a large supply of various vegetations to sustain such a massive population
did all the freshwater fish/creatures die? Obviously the worlds water would be salinated, or desalinated which as you know causes a huge problem for marine life.
the size of the ark? an old man made such a craft?
why is there no account of this flood from the ancient babylonians, chinese, Mesopatamians? we have documents during this supposed flood, surely they were killed though?
what of the agreed upon 300 foot rule for wooden craft, it has been attempted and never broken, even today. Noah apparently made a craft much bigger by himself, he was a genius seafarer.


please do your best to answer, thanks.

[OTHstrong]

Let's concede that the earth had no tilt ( a dubious claim) and was generally tropical. The vast geological distances still rebuke your story. Seriously, what you wrote is pure screed.

Let's look at some other problems:

what did that carnivores eat?
what did the herbivores eat? (would have to be quite a large supply of various vegetations to sustain such a massive population
did all the freshwater fish/creatures die? Obviously the worlds water would be salinated, or desalinated which as you know causes a huge problem for marine life.
the size of the ark? an old man made such a craft?
why is there no account of this flood from the ancient babylonians, chinese, Mesopatamians? we have documents during this supposed flood, surely they were killed though?
what of the agreed upon 300 foot rule for wooden craft, it has been attempted and never broken, even today. Noah apparently made a craft much bigger by himself, he was a genius seafarer.


please do your best to answer, thanks.

OK more valid points.

First of all the Bible never said, no not once that Noah built the Ark by himself, he could have had 2000 people working on it for 30 years and could have paid them well, never does the Bible say he did it by himself where people get this idea is beyond me.

 Now about ....why there is no accounts of a flood in other cultures, Mesopotamia China etc, you are sadly mistaken there are flood stories in both cultures mentioned in fact every single culture on the planet has a flood story and the precise equivalency to the Noah story is in 200 cultures of antiquity and the story is always the same. A man, his family, all the animal, a boat and a world wide flood, yes over 200 flood stories.

Now your other point about Carnivores, again you guys really need to read the Bible before you talk about it. The Bible is clear that their where no Carnivores before the flood, in fact men did not eat meat. Remember I said in a previous post that it never rained, well a giant mist every morning would spring up and provide nutrients and water to the plants in a different manner giving the plant food different biological value and an amino acid profile sufficient enough so that we need not eat meat and the atmospheric pressure was also different contributing to this as well. Now I understand that just cause the Bible says this does not make it so but at least you know that the Bible is not contradicting itself in these matters you stated.

[avxo]

Oh I almost forgot LOL at avxo putting Dolphins on the list of 100 he provided, lmao        

Why? They are mammals after all. Or did you not know that?