Author Topic: Ron Paul thinks Social Security is Unconstitutional......... but he's on it.  (Read 9965 times)

andreisdaman

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Dude, I'm responding to what YOU wrote...

No one does so voluntarily... people are FORCED to do it... and if everyone "accepted" the premise, then why is there such a ruckus over our spending every year?

Obviously people understand taxes are a necessary evil, but that in and of itself shows that people would much rather not pay them and every year people spend as much money as possible to have to pay as little as possible.

vol·un·tar·y  (vln-tr)
adj.
1. Done or undertaken of one's own free will: a voluntary decision to leave the job.
2. Acting or done willingly and without constraint or expectation of reward: a voluntary host

WRONG.

We do not do it of our own free will, we are forced to do it and we certainly expect some contraint.

okay...I'll give you the last word....lets move on..this is pointless

Soul Crusher

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sigh.......lets move on

Let's not.   See, I get you.   You, like the other welfarists dread the notion that one day your forced redistribution schemes like the income tax will end since most welfarists and leftists look at social assistance and welfare and govt programs as the reperations they never got.  

Give the choice -most of us would not give anyone but all the most helpness and needy anything at all.    

Most of us are sick of paying for this shit. 

tu_holmes

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Let's not.   See, I get you.   You, like the other welfarists dread the notion that one day your forced redistribution schemes like the income tax will end since most welfarists and leftists look at social assistance and welfare and govt programs as the reperations they never got. 

Give the choice -most of us would not give anyone but all the most helpness and needy anything at all.     

Most of us are sick of paying for this shit. 

I believe in a hand up, not a hand out.

I am all about helping people better themselves so they can provide for themselves and their families and in turn, help others.

That's not just giving people a blank check every year.

Skip8282

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When people are sent to prison due to "Tax Evasion", how the hell is that not done at the barrel of a gun?

That's crazy talk man... CRAZY.

You absolutely have ALWAYS paid your taxes in your lifetime at the end of a gun barrel... ALWAYS.



Exactly.  The man with the gun shows up when you fail to comply.  Not before.



That said, I think we need certain taxation, but Social Security is not one.

avxo

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Exactly.  The man with the gun shows up when you fail to comply.  Not before.

The proverbial gun is aimed at your head always. "Pay, or else..." That someone doesn't show up to arrest you until after you've failed to comply with an order or a requirement doesn't alter the calculus here.


That said, I think we need certain taxation, but Social Security is not one.

Right. We do - there are certain appropriate functions of government that we should fund.

Soul Crusher

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The proverbial gun is aimed at your head always. "Pay, or else..." That someone doesn't show up to arrest you until after you've failed to comply with an order or a requirement doesn't alter the calculus here.


Right. We do - there are certain appropriate functions of government that we should fund.

I favor a national sales tax and nothing else.

howardroark

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Are you unfamiliar with Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan?

No.

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You are a part of a nation so that people do not exist in  a state of constant war.

First of all, that isn't even Hobbes's argument. You're conflating the term "nation" with the term "state"

Secondly, Hobbes's claim is a completely unsubstantiated; it is nothing more than a baseless assertion made by Hobbes and all of his circle-jerking faux political philosopher followers.

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This means that certain concessions must be made. In return, you are living in a system that benefits you in many ways. For instance, you have the rule of law to protect your property. How is that enforcement to be paid?

Let's think about that for a second. How does McDonald's pay you for the services they provide you? Surely, they wouldn't be able to cook burgers and fries and all the other jolly shit they do without forcefully extracting money from someone?

Every business operating in a free market pays for the goods it provides via user fees and other voluntary arrangements. There is no reason why government wouldn't be able to do the same. For example, a user fee on contracts would net more than enough money for the proper functions of government.

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If we were to base it on your half-baked rant, it is only because the government is "stealing" your money to pay for it.

Do you know how I know my rant wasn't half-baked? Because you had no argument against it besides calling it "half-baked." Go back to the drawing board.

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Hey, if you are so anti-government, why are you even living in a nation-state as you write this? Why not go off in the woods somewhere, make a fortune(with no one around to do business with) and then you can keep one hundred percent of everything?

You do realize that I am the one arguing that society has benefits because of its voluntary aspects whereas you are not, correct? You do realize that you are the one arguing that society only has benefits when everyone is having their rights violated by an unconstrained and thus all-powerful government, right?

And the fact that you equate three very different terms with each other - "government," "nation-state," and society - is so ignorant that it's literally laughable.

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Of course, that could never happen because you have to be integrated, at least to some extent, with rules and laws and order.

I've been arguing for "rules and laws and order" this entire time, while you have been attacking it. Civilized society can only exist when everyone's rights are being enforced. You are arguing for an institution (all-powerful government) that legitimizes the initiation of aggression and thus the violation of everyone's rights.

Roger Bacon

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Checkmate? ???

whork

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Let's not.   See, I get you.   You, like the other welfarists dread the notion that one day your forced redistribution schemes like the income tax will end since most welfarists and leftists look at social assistance and welfare and govt programs as the reperations they never got.  

Give the choice -most of us would not give anyone but all the most helpness and needy anything at all.    

Most of us are sick of paying for this shit. 

Calling Andre a welfarist? I have no idea if he is but its pretty funny coming from a guy who lives on this board.

And the Keneysian/leftist is you 333... You use most of your life to complain about the government and wanting them to fix everything yet you call yourself conservative LOL Ron Paul would cry if he heard you called yourself a RP supporter
You are irony personified

loco

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avxo and I disagree on most of the Religion board threads.

But in this thread, I agree with avxo.

?      ???

loco

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no it should NOT be this way....do you actually think these guys under 25 are going to actually SAVE THEIR MONEY?????...they will spend it all on drinking and whoring...I know I would.......and then we will be stuck with the bill anyway of supporting them in their old age

they actually aren't......any time people are left to regulate themselves, trouble happens

The government's job is to protect you from others.  It is NOT the government's job to protect you from yourself.

dario73

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Ron Paul is destroying the SCOTUS decision.

andreisdaman

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Let's not.   See, I get you.   You, like the other welfarists dread the notion that one day your forced redistribution schemes like the income tax will end since most welfarists and leftists look at social assistance and welfare and govt programs as the reperations they never got.  

Give the choice -most of us would not give anyone but all the most helpness and needy anything at all.    

Most of us are sick of paying for this shit. 


we are already caught in a massive re-distribution scheme..the siphoning of monies form the middle class to the very rich...funny that you guys totally ignore that and want to concentrate on the  (black) guy who gets $22.50  and some food stamps every two weeks from welfare

Soul Crusher

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we are already caught in a massive re-distribution scheme..the siphoning of monies form the middle class to the very rich...funny that you guys totally ignore that and want to concentrate on the  (black) guy who gets $22.50  and some food stamps every two weeks from welfare

Andre - seek help. 

andreisdaman

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Andre - seek help. 

sigh..,admit it for a change...its true and you know it

avxo

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we are already caught in a massive re-distribution scheme..the siphoning of monies form the middle class to the very rich...

How, exactly, does this "massive re-distribution scheme..the siphoning of monies from the middle class to the very rich" operate?


funny that you guys totally ignore that and want to concentrate on the  (black) guy who gets $22.50  and some food stamps every two weeks from welfare

I don't concentrate on anything specific - I want to audit all programs that the government has, to ensure that they're appropriate for the government to run and that they're being run properly.

whork

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we are already caught in a massive re-distribution scheme..the siphoning of monies form the middle class to the very rich...funny that you guys totally ignore that and want to concentrate on the  (black) guy who gets $22.50  and some food stamps every two weeks from welfare

+1

Everything to get focus away from the income disparity we share with 3rd world countries

tu_holmes

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Ron Paul is destroying the SCOTUS decision.

Too bad his own people don't even like him.

Let's make sure we understand this... The Republicans who voted in Romey... A guy who built almost an identical healthcare bill in Massachusetts, who hate Ron Paul, who is the only one who is actually walking the walk on his issues.

What a disaster.

whork

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Too bad his own people don't even like him.

Let's make sure we understand this... The Republicans who voted in Romey... A guy who built almost an identical healthcare bill in Massachusetts, who hate Ron Paul, who is the only one who is actually walking the walk on his issues.

What a disaster.

Repub voters does what FOX tells them too. They are sheeps