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Author Topic: Who Never Had a Bad Match??  (Read 3066 times)
littleguns
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« on: July 01, 2012, 04:49:12 AM »

SO who never had a bad match?? I will go off the cusp and say Edge....

After watching his most recent DVD "You think you know me", made me realize how hard he went.....
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gmflex
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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 09:30:07 AM »

Would say mr.perfect
or benoit...
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Montague
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 04:54:05 PM »

IMO, it's the guys who made the fewest mistakes, covered the most mistakes, and could work around the most shortcomings of their opponents:
Hennig
Benoit
Bret
Shawn
Steamers
Macho
Dynamite
Muraco
Taker
...off the top of my head.
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 05:20:30 PM »

Taker?

He has like 7 moves... it's hard to fuck up 7 moves.
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Montague
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 06:47:23 PM »

Taker?

He has like 7 moves... it's hard to fuck up 7 moves.



He carried Giant Gonzalez through a couple of matches, which was no easy feat.

As for the "limited" repertoire, he gives those moves meaning. That's the art of story-telling during a match. There are and have been plenty of guys to pull stunts a lot more high-risk than Taker's dive over the top rope (for instance), but he gets as much - oftentimes more - mileage out of it; not to mention these days he does it about once per year.

It's not always what you do, but how you do it and what it accomplishes in the eyes of the audience.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 07:47:20 PM »

Taker?

He has like 7 moves... it's hard to fuck up 7 moves.


'Taker has a lot more than 7 moves. Every so often, he add a new wrinkle. As of late, it's been submission moves: The Dragon Sleeper (Takin' Care of Business), The Triangle Choke, The Gogoplata (aka "That Deadly Submission Move" aka "Hell's Gate").

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leonp1981
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 08:42:15 PM »

I think Monty's covered most of them, the only other ones I'd add would be Eddie, and Dean Malenko.  I've not seen a lot of Malenko, but the stuff I have seen was solid.
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Montague
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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2012, 03:37:05 PM »

I think Monty's covered most of them, the only other ones I'd add would be Eddie, and Dean Malenko.  I've not seen a lot of Malenko, but the stuff I have seen was solid.


Oh, thanks; how the hell did I forget about Eddie!?!? He was one of the smoothest workers in the ring AND on the stick!
As for Malenko, check out some of his Japan footage for a treat, sometime.
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The Showstoppa
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« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2012, 04:16:33 PM »

Flair pre-done days.
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« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2012, 06:22:52 PM »

Flair pre-done days.


You know, I originally included Flair on my list. The only reason I fussed a bit and removed him was that two men who I consider excellent ring generals (Bret & Scott Steiner) have both claimed that Flair stunk up the ring with each of them. In fact, both men have gone so far as to speculate deliberate sabotage on Ric's part in their respective encounters.

A while back, I posted the Steiner/Flair match in question. I think you'd even asked me for my input on it. IMHO, I really didn't think it was that bad. Flair looked like he maybe went up heavy for one or two of Scott's big power moves, but according to Scott's account, Flair was slow for some spots, missed other entirely, sandbagged for most of the match, etc. If he truly did, nothing was overly obvious to me. I suspect that Scott was maybe comparing an "off" night to Nature Boy's "usual."

As for Bret, I usually take what he says with a grain of salt. Everything is everyone else's fault and he is always the victim - a "wrestling tragedy."

Two things worth mentioning are that, 1.) I suspect a bit of biased, ego-driven jealousy may be at work here. And, 2.) These matches took place at a time in which Flair was going through a divorce and some other nasty dealings. It's possible he wasn't on his A-game, but I don't know that his work during that time deserves the type of harsh criticism that two particular individuals insist on dishing out.
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2012, 11:29:39 AM »

'Taker has a lot more than 7 moves. Every so often, he add a new wrinkle. As of late, it's been submission moves: The Dragon Sleeper (Takin' Care of Business), The Triangle Choke, The Gogoplata (aka "That Deadly Submission Move" aka "Hell's Gate").



Ok.. 10 moves?

I just don't think he's that great of a worker... big... came along at the right time... Had a great gimmick.

That's all there is to him.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2012, 12:10:16 PM »

Ok.. 10 moves?

I just don't think he's that great of a worker... big... came along at the right time... Had a great gimmick.

That's all there is to him.

I beg to differ. He tends to do the best with medium-sized wrestlers (Michaels, Orton, Angle).

There are few great matches where the Deadman faced guy his size or bigger (Batista, Diesel).
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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2012, 01:16:15 PM »

dusty rhodes was always smooth,a class act all the way.
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2012, 02:12:46 PM »

dusty rhodes was always smooth,a class act all the way.


 Cool
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2012, 04:09:46 PM »


You know, I originally included Flair on my list. The only reason I fussed a bit and removed him was that two men who I consider excellent ring generals (Bret & Scott Steiner) have both claimed that Flair stunk up the ring with each of them. In fact, both men have gone so far as to speculate deliberate sabotage on Ric's part in their respective encounters.

A while back, I posted the Steiner/Flair match in question. I think you'd even asked me for my input on it. IMHO, I really didn't think it was that bad. Flair looked like he maybe went up heavy for one or two of Scott's big power moves, but according to Scott's account, Flair was slow for some spots, missed other entirely, sandbagged for most of the match, etc. If he truly did, nothing was overly obvious to me. I suspect that Scott was maybe comparing an "off" night to Nature Boy's "usual."

As for Bret, I usually take what he says with a grain of salt. Everything is everyone else's fault and he is always the victim - a "wrestling tragedy."

Two things worth mentioning are that, 1.) I suspect a bit of biased, ego-driven jealousy may be at work here. And, 2.) These matches took place at a time in which Flair was going through a divorce and some other nasty dealings. It's possible he wasn't on his A-game, but I don't know that his work during that time deserves the type of harsh criticism that two particular individuals insist on dishing out.

Honestly, that might be the only two i have heard of in Flair's whole career and both have/had an ax to grind with Ric, so I wouldn't put any stock in them for giving a fair assessment of Flair.  Countless others have never complained, perhaps those two need to look in the mirror.
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2012, 05:09:35 PM »

I beg to differ. He tends to do the best with medium-sized wrestlers (Michaels, Orton, Angle).

There are few great matches where the Deadman faced guy his size or bigger (Batista, Diesel).

Those matches are all the other guy... The Deadman is shit.

He was shit in WCW... He's shit now.

He had a great gimmick and was fortunate to have people make him look good... Foley... Michaels... Everyone makes him LOOK good.

He sucks.
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2012, 05:40:11 PM »

Honestly, that might be the only two i have heard of in Flair's whole career and both have/had an ax to grind with Ric, so I wouldn't put any stock in them for giving a fair assessment of Flair.  Countless others have never complained, perhaps those two need to look in the mirror.


Bingo!!

Flair's got Steamboat's endorsement as a great worker, and that's all I need to know.
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2012, 05:52:17 PM »

Those matches are all the other guy... The Deadman is shit.

He was shit in WCW... He's shit now.

He had a great gimmick and was fortunate to have people make him look good... Foley... Michaels... Everyone makes him LOOK good.

He sucks.

You don't have a two-decade career in WWE, without having the skills in the ring.

As for those matches, they are HARDLY just the other guy, especially the feuds between Michaels and 'Taker. Both men put on a BLOCKBUSTER match, at WrestleMania 25.

Mark Callaway has long had the ability. WCW was too brain-dead to market him. WWE found the magic formula.

But, a gimmick will only take you so far. You have to have the ability and the charisma to take it to new levels.  Callaway has done with with the Undertaker character for decades. Even doing the biker thing (which was more his being himself, as opposed to a literal undertaker, an urn-controlled zombie, a superhero from the 'dark side', or a demonic priest), the Deadman has been a hit.
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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2012, 07:04:27 AM »

Charlie Fulton never had a bad match.  He carried everyone he got in the ring with.

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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2012, 11:00:24 AM »


Bingo!!

Flair's got Steamboat's endorsement as a great worker, and that's all I need to know.


I am SOOOOOO lucky to not only have seen the WCW Flair/Steamboat stuff, but the earlier Mid-Atlantic stuff that helped launch both of them to superstars.  I watched them wrestle in hs gyms all over WNC.....and NEVER a bad match.  Two of the greatest workers, hot fued, small venue and the "mark" in me was alive and well.  Never forget it.  You can have your 60,0000 seat stadium with entrances that last longer than matches, I'll take 300 hardcore fans where you could actually chat to all the faces before/after matches.......brother !!!!!  Grin
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ritch
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« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2012, 11:17:46 AM »

Val Venus
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Andy Griffin
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« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2012, 04:00:23 PM »

I am SOOOOOO lucky to not only have seen the WCW Flair/Steamboat stuff, but the earlier Mid-Atlantic stuff that helped launch both of them to superstars.  I watched them wrestle in hs gyms all over WNC.....and NEVER a bad match.  Two of the greatest workers, hot fued, small venue and the "mark" in me was alive and well.  Never forget it.  You can have your 60,0000 seat stadium with entrances that last longer than matches, I'll take 300 hardcore fans where you could actually chat to all the faces before/after matches.......brother !!!!!  Grin


Same here brother, even though living in VA I never got to one of the WRAL tapings.
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« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2012, 08:21:11 PM »


He carried Giant Gonzalez through a couple of matches, which was no easy feat.

As for the "limited" repertoire, he gives those moves meaning. That's the art of story-telling during a match. There are and have been plenty of guys to pull stunts a lot more high-risk than Taker's dive over the top rope (for instance), but he gets as much - oftentimes more - mileage out of it; not to mention these days he does it about once per year.

It's not always what you do, but how you do it and what it accomplishes in the eyes of the audience.

Plus, those stunts are usually done by smaller/medium-sized men. Having a guy over 300 pounds to it (and look awesome, to boot) makes the Deadman unique.

Bret Hart often complains that working with the larger guys is a bit challenging, because they tend to be stiff or get gassed easily. But, he notes one of the few exceptions to that is the Undertaker.
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Akeelsolid
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2012, 10:59:47 PM »

Top of my head:
Bobby Eaton (Alabama jam is an impressive high risk move)
Ted Dibiase
Jumping Jim Brunzell (awesome text book drop kick)
Jake the Snake roberts
Ravishing Rick Rude
Bob Backlund
Booker T (singles)
The Great Muta
Magnum TA

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tu_holmes
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« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2012, 11:05:47 PM »

You don't have a two-decade career in WWE, without having the skills in the ring.

As for those matches, they are HARDLY just the other guy, especially the feuds between Michaels and 'Taker. Both men put on a BLOCKBUSTER match, at WrestleMania 25.

Mark Callaway has long had the ability. WCW was too brain-dead to market him. WWE found the magic formula.

But, a gimmick will only take you so far. You have to have the ability and the charisma to take it to new levels.  Callaway has done with with the Undertaker character for decades. Even doing the biker thing (which was more his being himself, as opposed to a literal undertaker, an urn-controlled zombie, a superhero from the 'dark side', or a demonic priest), the Deadman has been a hit.

A hit based on gimmick... nothing more.

That's my opinion and I am sticking to it... Dude has never had more than 10 moves... Never will.
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