Low carbs when on the gear?

[War-Horse]

Alright looking at ric drasin videos and he talks openly about training with arnold, zane, draper etc.   Well he list their diet of pre-contest as mostly hamburger, salad, eggs, cottage cheese, protien drinks.  Also as most of you know zane, arnold etc would gear up for a show and actually gain weight to it. Then they would cycle off gear and rest up and have a life for awhile.  Im not here to talk dosages or wether they went off gear tho.

My question is this: In my experiance it takes carbs to get a pump in the gym and feel strong. But when i cut carbs i get flat and strung out. The muscles wont pop.

Now that ive got some gear....does this offset the need for heavy carbs for you guys to get a pump?  I need to cut more than gain size. But like all of us I want both.   I dont want to waste this cycle and want to get your opinions and what works for you.

My ultimate goal is to have a physique like in the 70-80's.  As i will only be using lowdose steroids....no insulin no hgh no peptides...etc,
BTW im on test enth 250mg with tren enth 150mg. 1 shot per week.

[ritch]

gonna need more gear to get that type of size. Probably need more fats if you get real flat...

[Borracho]

X2 on the no refeed like galeniko said above...listen to him he knows what he's talking about.

I've been back dieting for almost a month now and just when I began to notice daily changes I went and fucked it up with a huge carb day. It set me back HUGE...cause after two days of being super good on the diet I'm still not where I was pre carb up. Remember how I said being on is like starting all over wrt how to train and diet? this is one of the things we can get away with now....no carbs!

[War-Horse]

Excellant info!!        Ima drop carbs right now and hit the protiens and salads to see if it works for me.  Galeniko, wow dude that musrt be a rush! Good pics.
Ill post some pics here. Ive stayed the same for about 10 yrs as i maxed out my natural genetics.  Most guys know me from years ago and my pics went around and i got slammed...lol. Thats getbig!  Ive won some shows at state levels 10-20yrs ago...did not use gear...no one believes tho
I just need to get my shit together and get ripped. Being a permabulker is old.

5'10"    240lbs  54 chest relaxed   20" arms cold.....you know all the standard getbig measurements...except a 38" stomach

[War-Horse]

fatbastard should rip itup

[War-Horse]

Thanks man!   Alot of good info from ya.  And yes until now ive been a natural permabulker. Like you said i dont want to waste this cycle so i should get leaner for real!!     Im a big dude anyway so i can do that without juice. But keeping the muscle while i lean out is my main objective.      So its settled, ill keep all posted on my rants/updates page.

This board rocks!

[Borracho]

dont worry, even after a 10k calorie slip up where you go and eat creal, sausage icecream and everything "bad", not much will get worse.
after i stop the binge attack, i just wait until im hungry again, doesnt matter if it takes 24 hours.
i swear this is the most important thing  to reduce damage after a slip up.
eating even "clean" couple hourse after slip up will destroy the appearance further imo.
and another thing, when waiting till hungry, its important to tell the difference from real hunger to feeling like there might fit some food again.
after such eating attack, the bloodsugar and insulin go out of whack and give fake feeling of hunger, knows as appetite.

then, usualy the day after you will look full and thick and vascular and get huge pumps.so far so good.but the 2 days after that you gonna look worse than before.it usualy takes me 3-4days(sometimes up to 7) to get back to where i was before the eating attack..

i dont know how its possible, but i can down 15k calories easy on such a day.gives me epic palumbo gut too
i thought about filming it once when it happens, even very big bodybuilder friends cant believe it when they see it happening.
dont know if its normal, but after initial first cheat meals, i get diarrhea very soon after and can down same amount again, rinse repeat.

i can get away with alot of icecream it seems, due to body flushing it out straight after, maybe i have this milk intolerance thingie

I did the damage control that you've mentioned in the past and just waited till I was hungry the next day. My stomach was still hurting from all the food anyway lol . I'm not really a junk food kind of guy and ended up stuffing my self with corn flakes and raw oats in milk and I might have lactose intolerance too cause I get the runs and crazy bloated and gassy from it.  

Stomach looked like it was gonna explode too but actually felt even worse.  

My consumption of vegetables like celery, green peppers and cucumbers has nearly quadrupled this week to keep the hunger at bay. Other than that its proteins with the little fat that tags along with it and a lot of water, coffee, tea and lemonade sweetened with equal.

[Borracho]

fatbastard should rip itup

ahhaha You're a fucking animal dude. You got a shit ton of mass you're gonna look amazing when you lean out.

[Borracho]

yeah, hes big guy, will look very good at single digits.

ha, btw, yeah i keep away the hunger with huge amounts of veggies too, and loads of sweetened water.

damn, this sweeteners stuff makes more adictive than sugar

oh and the sweetener dont cause any insulin release, i teste with keto sticks and diabetic uncles diabetes stick thingie, i know some ppl believe sweeteners cause insulin release, they dont

oh cool...I was wondering about the insulin thing thanks.

I wanted to ask you what exactly it is that you do when you get to the level of conditioning that you're after?

you've mentioned using gear mostly just to cut up and you're pretty sliced already so I imagine you will focus more on maintaining pretty soon. What's the length you usually stay on and how do you play around with your diet during that time?   

[Borracho]

ha, i stay on until the conditioning i want is there, then i slowly start to add bit junkfood to the diet.
makes the muscle blow up like crazy, then after 1or2 months of that state,i just go off.
so yeah, maintaing as good as possible while eating some bad food even daily, when very lean this wont make you fat realy.

usualy thats 4to6 months.then i go off until the body starts crashing badly, which is usualy some 4-6months later.

but this time i might try to stay on for a year and see how that goes, i firmly believe staying permanently on even on low dosages leads to best gains, the longer, the better.ofc low doses only go so far, so when i feel its maxed out,i stop,instead of upping the dose.

I'm gonna try this stuff on myself  

Don't disappear!

[akers1021]

listen, forget that bullshit about you need carbs to get pump or energy, ESPECIALY one gear.

i had no carbs in 3 weeks and train every day very hard and always brutal pumps, on nothing but some test e.

my best pumps have actualy all been on low or no carbs.

try it and see for yourself.but dont be a pussy and give up after 3 days, it takes some days for the body to get used to it.
 
besides, carbs will make you bloat on gear easy.

if youre on gear theres absolutely no need for carbs.no carb diet will get you lean very very fast.

the gear will make the muscle pop,dont worry.



eat only protein and some bit fats and almost zero carbs and youll get cut in no time , and dont worry wont lose any muscle, just have plenty of protein and train as hard as you can.heavy, none of this "im on diet ill train less weight more reps".train heavy and intense, do all rep ranges.

it depends how fat or lean you are and want to become.if you plan to go below 8%, you will have to say goodbye to carbs temporarly.

so, how lean are you?

i do exactly that and started out at natty 13% and within 3 weeks on similiar cycle to you,im much leaner already,id even say very lean.can check pics here

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=397164.1750

and no, dont do socalled refeed days, if you cant hold through no carbs no more, have one cheat meal, then wait till hungry again and return to no carbs.

enjoy the diet, it wont be too bad,man

but tell how big you are and whats your bodyfat.or best post a pic.i never flame people for posting pics btw, only if they very fat and in denial thereoff

THIS X 10

[kevinf]

very nice informative posts galeniko!! 

Can you share what foods a day in your diet consists of? whats your daily macro breakdown? daily caloric intake?     

[Psychopath]

i'll give you guys one tip that'll go a very long way during low carb dieting.

Supplement with the essential electrolytes.

1g potassium (you can get this cheap via salt substitutes which are either a mixture of sodium/potassium or just pure potassium eg. "half-salt", "no-salt" etc..)
4-600mg sodium (in addition to your normal salting habits)
250-500mg magnesium

500mg Calcium also, but you can skip this depending on your food selection.



This will help you with training, over all energy, muscle size/fullness, and constipation.

[irishdave]

i'll give you guys one tip that'll go a very long way during low carb dieting.

Supplement with the essential electrolytes.

1g potassium (you can get this cheap via salt substitutes which are either a mixture of sodium/potassium or just pure potassium eg. "half-salt", "no-salt" etc..)
4-600mg sodium (in addition to your normal salting habits)
250-500mg magnesium

500mg Calcium also, but you can skip this depending on your food selection.



This will help you with training, over all energy, muscle size/fullness, and constipation.

Is that not a lot of salt? Sodium bloats me to hell, since I lowered my french fries and burgers intake my face is holding less water and it's only been a little over a week

[Borracho]

Is that not a lot of salt? Sodium bloats me to hell, since I lowered my french fries and burgers intake my face is holding less water and it's only been a little over a week

I get away with a lot more salt in my diet when I'm on low/no carbs. The thing is that for every gram of glycogen (sugar via carbs) stored in the muscle at least 3 grams of water will be stored along with it. But when you're on pure vegatables, protein and training hard this carb storage in the muscle gets depleted.

Steroids increase sodium retention so you may not need an extra amount but looking at psychopath's I'm certain I need an extra amount of the other things he mentioned cause I do cramp up sometimes and I'm sure this is due to the electrolyte imbalance.

[irishdave]

I get away with a lot more salt in my diet when I'm on low/no carbs. The thing is that for every gram of glycogen (sugar via carbs) stored in the muscle at least 3 grams of water will be stored along with it. But when you're on pure vegatables, protein and training hard this carb storage in the muscle gets depleted.

Steroids increase sodium retention so you may not need an extra amount but looking at psychopath's I'm certain I need an extra amount of the other things he mentioned cause I do cramp up sometimes and I'm sure this is due to the electrolyte imbalance.

gotcha

[notsureifsrs]

btw the above will work until slightly under 8% bf, after that its either time to end the diet or to be prepared to enter hell

as in drop calories even further or increase the cardio on same calories.

and again, for fastest results, no socalled refeed days.

just be strong in the mind, learn to look forward to brokoli with dry chicken breast by thinking how many ppl in world starve and eat dirt bc of hunger

wow you seem to suffer a lot
what your cals intake (or macros if you don't count cals) looks like under 8%?