another bicep/trciep training question

[triple_h]

guys back into training heavy after a long time. and was wondering if bi+ tris can be done on the same day?  should i alternate it or its better to 1st do triceps then biceps.

or

 its is better to do chest n tris and back n biceps??

( i only train 3 alternate days in the week)

[triple_h]

somebody??

[chaos]

Either way you'd like. I'll train chest/tris back/bis for a few weeks then skip tris/bis and give them their own workout. When I do I always hit tris first.

[triple_h]

Either way you'd like. I'll train chest/tris back/bis for a few weeks then skip tris/bis and give them their own workout. When I do I always hit tris first.

ok thanks
what is my triceps are well developed  but biceps not having the bump yet. is it advisable  2 train biceps 1st then?

[wild willie]

yes.......in my humble opinion.....training the bis and tris together is the only way to go.


never ever had a good triceps workout after delts or chest.......and same goes with back and biceps.....


arms together is the route to go!

[chaos]

HHH I always train tris first, something about the pump of the biceps stopping full contraction of the tris if you train bis first.

[wild willie]

HHH I always train tris first, something about the pump of the biceps stopping full contraction of the tris if you train bis first.

absolutely agree with your post!

always work bis after tris!

[kimo]

superset both sometimes . its good .

[wes]

yes.......in my humble opinion.....training the bis and tris together is the only way to go.


never ever had a good triceps workout after delts or chest.......and same goes with back and biceps.....


arms together is the route to go!

^THIS^

[Donny]

Agreed Triceps first then Biceps. I can not train Triceps after heavy chest training. Itīs better to train them on their own Day and you can really get some weight in their in close grip Benches which of course will hit your chest as well.

[funk51]

Agreed Triceps first then Biceps. I can not train Triceps after heavy chest training. Itīs better to train them on their own Day and you can really get some weight in their in close grip Benches which of course will hit your chest as well.

[ritch]

unless you have insane bicep genetics, don't do back and biceps together. Looks good on paper but when done in real life, it's not so good....

[dj181]

unless you have insane bicep genetics, don't do back and biceps together. Looks good on paper but when done in real life, it's not so good....

why's that?

and on a side note, it seems to me that bis aren't as involved in back work as tris are in chest work

benches, dips, and push-ups all heavily involve the tris, but rows, pulldowns, pullups don't involve the bis so heavily, with the exception of underhand grip chins or pulldowns

[jpm101]

Hmmmmmm...maybe I'm not understanding this right:

   Back day training is not proper bicep training because "the BICEPS will be too EXHAUSTED" to train them the fullest. Thought the whole idea of training was to "exhaust" (with-in reason) a muscle part, biceps in this case. Right after the back, doing biceps would be the perfect timing to take advantage and extend the biceps to  their FULLEST work potential. The result being growth and the muscle mass so often sought.  

Might try adding incline DB curls & close grip Scott curls, directly after that back training. Taking complete advantage of the biceps being worked hard doing the back/lat work.Tthey should be primed to go beyond the normal range of training, to a higher level. Actually pick any two good bicep movements you wish. Try keeping the total set, for direct bicep work, to 4 to 6 sets max. If thinking you need more than 6 sets of any direct bicep work, after a well planned back/lat workout, you may wish to rethink again.

Might also apply this concept to chest/delt/tricep training. Might also suggest do not do close grip benches, dips or whatever for the triceps after chest/delts. Want extension exercises or such, which give a more direct influence on the triceps. Overhead/lying DB/BB extensions, push offs, tricep press downs, skull crushers to the forehead or chin, etc.

There is a different version, where guy's will train the biceps after chest/delts and triceps after back/lats. Successful for some. The point being that the bicep, for example, is worked & pumped from the back workout (with out any direct bicep work; curls). Doing biceps on the chest/delts day gives the biceps even more direct focus,

Just a personal view, whatever: Having a individual day where only bicep/triceps are paid attention to  seems overkill. Going to get a outstanding pump, be  pump is no suggestion that advance muscle growth will follow. But you will look great in the mirror after the workout, if that is your main goal.  Good Luck.

[jpm101]

Galeniko;  we all respond differently, to reach different level of development. There is no one way to obtain ultimate muscle mass, for anyone.  Even drugs work very little or don't work at all on some people. With regards to training, can never say don't do this or that. Or this way is the only way.

Sorry I missed  the obvious main point of your thread....maybe if I reread it slower..maybe......s-l-o-w-e-r.....Naw, pretty sure I got the jest of your tome. Sticking to what I wrote below.

And congrats to you and your very excellent good set of arms. Say Hi to them for me.
                                                               Good Luck.

[ritch]

why's that?

and on a side note, it seems to me that bis aren't as involved in back work as tris are in chest work

benches, dips, and push-ups all heavily involve the tris, but rows, pulldowns, pullups don't involve the bis so heavily, with the exception of underhand grip chins or pulldowns

If you train back the way you should, no way in hell should you have enough gas to train biceps. I even do back thickness and width seperate to really train the back properly.

[dj181]

what i'm saying is that if you train your back with either pronated or neutral grip exercises then the biceps won't be as taxed, coz the biceps are most strongly involved when the hand is supinated

[ritch]

what i'm saying is that if you train your back with either pronated or neutral grip exercises then the biceps won't be as taxed, coz the biceps are most strongly involved when the hand is supinated

So cross out the supinated (one of the most effective ways) to train back in order to do bicep training in the same workout? Not good.

And the chest/shoulder/tri example is even worse! That's good for regular folks who just want to get a bit of tone. Not for bodybuilders who seek to develop each muscle head to it's fullest. You can't do that while trying to do these "all in one workouts"

Bottom line, you gotta hit the muscle through various movements and on days to themselves...

[dj181]

so i assume you're doing something like this..

chest

back

legs

delts

arms

am i right? if so, and if you are doing overhead pressing and up right rowing on delt day then you're hitting arms 3 times a week (tris on presses and bis on up rows)

push/pull/legs seems to be ideal on paper, but maybe it is just too much for one day... meaning the push and pull days

[Donny]

have to admit though guys a 3 day split also works for me... Chest+back
                                                                                        off
                                                                                        shoulders+arms
                                                                                        off
                                                                                        legs
                                                                                        weekenfd off or just sat and start again

Training shoulders and arms is not as bad as say with chest or back. I like a 3 or 5 day split but i do not like a 4 day split. end of the day if it gets results thatīs all that matters. Training back and chest is too much for some but i like it sometimes gets a great sweat on and i like to superset benches and rows. it Gets my little ól heart pumpin

[jpm101]

If having a one body part per day training workout, than training arm's on their own day, would be the only exception for an individual arm day. This one day/one body part has been around for quite a while. Usually  15 sets on any one body part (3 exercises of 5 sets each). Though this system can be done 6 training a week, with the  calves and abs on the same day.

Like:

Chest
arms
legs
delts
back
calves/abs..optional workout day

Putting the legs, the heaviest  compound movement, in the middle  puts some space between the chest and back work, also heavy compound exercises. Better so if you include DL's in the back work.

Can't take the biceps out of any pulling exercise, not matter the grip. The bicep has a main  pulling function, even the common BB curl is a pulling movement (biceps=pulling a weight towards the body.  Triceps=pushing a weight away from the body). If injecting a nerve/muscle numbing compound into the bicep, any rows, chins, clean, etc would be very, very hard to accomplish..if at all. Even triceps work,with that numb bicep, would be demanding. The bicep and Tricep counter balance/support each other in any function.

The weakest link to hitting the lats/back, and building it to it's full potential, are the biceps and grip, with pulling exercises. They give out before the extremely powerful back can be properly taxed. In any event, keep the focus on the elbows and pull with them, rather having the attention on the position of the grip, when doing rows, chins, etc..Lead with the elbows.

A pullover type machine, with the elbows resting on pads, give a direct  work curve to the lats/back, with the biceps (for the most part) taken out of the exercise. Main reason a Nautilus pullover(and some other type machines) machine is so effected for building the lats.  The closest, where the elbows lead the exercise, is the bent arm or straight arm BB/DB pullover. Allowing for a full stretch at the bottom of he movement. There are elbow slings/webs, which some attach for a sitting cable row or even overhead pulley's and chins....though not too functional or easy to get adjusted.  Good Luck.

[dj181]

the thing about the one bodypart per day gig is delts

delts are heavily worked on back day and chest day, and even on arm day (depending on which exercises you do)

and then when you have delt day, arms are getting worked putting good from the up rows and presses

so from that split legs and back are getting a pretty good amount of rest, and chest somewhat (unless your doing dips and close-grip bench on arm day), but arms and delts are getting a shitload of work

[Donny]

well i had more trouble doing an upper/lower split training each muscle 2x aweek killed my shoulders. I seem to be fine with a 3 day split as above or a 5. For me on a 5 day split worked=

Chest
back
legs
shoulders
arms
weekend off

[Mr Nobody]

the thing about the one bodypart per day gig is delts

delts are heavily worked on back day and chest day, and even on arm day (depending on which exercises you do)

and then when you have delt day, arms are getting worked putting good from the up rows and presses

so from that split legs and back are getting a pretty good amount of rest, and chest somewhat (unless your doing dips and close-grip bench on arm day), but arms and delts are getting a shitload of work

Delts get hit by almost every upper body exercise my suggestion to minimize delt work just maybe db laterals maybe even every other workout.

[dj181]

Delts get hit by almost every upper body exercise my suggestion to minimize delt work just maybe db laterals maybe even every other workout.

2 of the biggest and widest delt fellas that i knew didn't do hardly any delt work at all, and they claimed that they got their big delts from benches and rows, so you could have a pretty valid point man