Author Topic: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head  (Read 34413 times)

Krankenstein

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #175 on: August 07, 2012, 06:35:21 AM »
I got to 5 pages in, and it all seemed to be about chiropractors, so if it has steered back to the original conversation of bullshitters, please forgive me. I have used a chiropractor before, and stroked out in the office. Ambulance had to come get me and rush me to the hospital. All of this was from a neck adjustment. Now, I will say that when I was going weekly, it did help my lower back, but once I was going once a month, it didn't help as much. I have 2 blown discs in my lower back btw. Anyway, this dude was a bit of a snake. He was the type that would tell you he could cure cancer with spinal adjustments and what not. Now, I will not pretend that we know everything about medicine, and that holistic healing doesn't work, but I found that hard to believe. Anyway, haven't been since and that was 5 years ago. It was funny, I got a bill for that visit, and called him and told him unless he wanted a problem, he needed to eat that invoice.

Truly sorry for your experience.  I really am.  I can not speak for that guy, but why suddenly did he want to adjust your neck?  The fact he gave you a bill absolutely sickens me.  Was the guy daring you to sue him?  FFS  While not on the same level, one doctor visit I was at the guy wanted to draw some blood.  He had the nurse come in and do it.  She tried a few times and on the last one it felt funny.  As she was drawing the (what seemed like) 500th bottle, I felt my arm get cold, then really warm.  I told her to pull the fucking needle out (exact words) she refused saying that she had just a little more to go.  I was pissed.  Afterwards I couldn't straighten or bend my arm and the next day I had a bruise that extended from my forearm to almost my underarm.  I called the guy and said that a slight refund would be in order as I couldn't practice with my arm being immobile.  I got the "no my problem" type of thing and all he would do is talk to the nurse.  I refused to pay the bill, and six months later a new office manager called me asking about it.  I told the story and she wrote off the whole thing.  Again, NOT comparing..just saying we go to these people to get helped and end up getting shit on at times.

Kwon_2

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Re: Bullshitters....
« Reply #176 on: August 07, 2012, 06:41:58 AM »
My best friends brother is like this. I never heard so many tall tales in one convo. in my life. This guy churns out lies like they are for sale. My friend said just to ignore him, he doesnt know why he does it. LOL

It's a disease.

Irongrip400

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #177 on: August 07, 2012, 06:44:08 AM »
Yeah, he told me the bills were automatically generated, and that he would take care of it. I actually have a letter still from my doctor, stating that him and my neurologist both thought it was the direct reult of that adjustment. As for why he adjusted my neck, I think I told him my head was hurting or something. He had done it a few times, and it always scared me. It's crazy though, the anesthesiologist that worked for the heart doctor that did my endoscopy(can't remember if that's what it was called, but they knocked me out and put a camera down my throat to check for a PFO) said her husband was a chiropractor and had heard about my experience. I guess he served on some sort of board and my chiro had to report the ncident to them. I was also telling a chiro in my gym about it (he overheard me talking about it and his radar went off I guess) and he told me that's why he doesn't do above the shoulder manipulations because of that risk. I wouldn't call your profession quackery, there are hacks in every field.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #178 on: August 07, 2012, 07:10:48 AM »
Yeah, he told me the bills were automatically generated, and that he would take care of it. I actually have a letter still from my doctor, stating that him and my neurologist both thought it was the direct reult of that adjustment. As for why he adjusted my neck, I think I told him my head was hurting or something. He had done it a few times, and it always scared me. It's crazy though, the anesthesiologist that worked for the heart doctor that did my endoscopy(can't remember if that's what it was called, but they knocked me out and put a camera down my throat to check for a PFO) said her husband was a chiropractor and had heard about my experience. I guess he served on some sort of board and my chiro had to report the ncident to them. I was also telling a chiro in my gym about it (he overheard me talking about it and his radar went off I guess) and he told me that's why he doesn't do above the shoulder manipulations because of that risk. I wouldn't call your profession quackery, there are hacks in every field.
That really does suck that you had a negative experience bro, sorry to hear that. And I agree with there being shitty docs in every arena. Chiropractic is a science, philosophy, and ART....some people are just bad adjusters, they are not good at the art of adjustment.  Just like some dentists are shitty at what they do.

Regarding the chance of cerebral vascular accident (stroke) via upper cervical adjustments:
I actually stumbled upon this last night while studying some notes...

"clinically, there is an incidence of about 0.0002% (2 cases per 1 million adjustments) of vertebral artery injury. Compare with the risk rate for paralysis following neurosurgery for neck pain which is 1.5% (15,000 patients per 1 million surgeries. Although commonly, chiropractors are the ones performing upper cervical manipulation, careful review of the literature involving vertebral artery injury reveals the groups involved in the study include: medical practitioners, medical specialists, osteopaths, physiotherapists, naturopaths, a kung fu practitioner, a blind masseur (lol), a barber from India,....".         (pm me for works cited)


Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #179 on: August 07, 2012, 07:12:44 AM »
I have yet to see that someone adding that former Mr. O Franco Columbu is a Chiro, which thus ends this trivial exchange.
Damn, I shoulda mentioned that! Nice work :D

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #180 on: August 07, 2012, 07:14:28 AM »
You may want to rephrase that ol' buddy.  We do practice medicine.  Unfortunately, people associate that term only with pills and surgery.  Earlier in the thread there is a definition of medicine.  Do I think chiropractic can cure stage 4 cancer?  Nope.  Otherwise my dad would be around today.  Do I think it has a tremendous effect on a lot of conditions?  Yep.

Chiropractic care and the immune response...there is some interesting stuff out there:

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articles/PMC2945351//reload=0;jsessionid=UYXw43y0YqqzB7SaYxIl.20

Spinal manipulative treatment does not increase interleukin-2 -dependent polyclonal immunoglobulin synthesis by mitogen-activated B cells. However, antibody synthesis induced by interleukin-2 alone can be, at least temporarily, augmented following spinal manipulation. Thus, under certain physiological conditions spinal manipulative treatment might influence interleukin-2 -regulated biological responses.

So, who knows what else can be affected by the adjustment.  Again, DO NOT take from this that I am advocating that the adjustment will replace medications.  Medications have their time and place.  Just interesting that we haven't scratched the surface on some stuff.

How is not mentioning Franco an ending to this trivial exchange?  What has he contributed to my profession?  Other than being a 'famous name'...not a whole hell of a lot.  Please try again.
You're right you're right, I misspoke. 4 exams in 3 days is making me dumber I think

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #181 on: August 07, 2012, 07:18:19 AM »
I got to 5 pages in, and it all seemed to be about chiropractors, so if it has steered back to the original conversation of bullshitters, please forgive me. I have used a chiropractor before, and stroked out in the office. Ambulance had to come get me and rush me to the hospital. All of this was from a neck adjustment. Now, I will say that when I was going weekly, it did help my lower back, but once I was going once a month, it didn't help as much. I have 2 blown discs in my lower back btw. Anyway, this dude was a bit of a snake. He was the type that would tell you he could cure cancer with spinal adjustments and what not. Now, I will not pretend that we know everything about medicine, and that holistic healing doesn't work, but I found that hard to believe. Anyway, haven't been since and that was 5 years ago. It was funny, I got a bill for that visit, and called him and told him unless he wanted a problem, he needed to eat that invoice.
That is bullshit regarding your bill, obviously a doctor who doesn't give a shit about people. Should have thrown fisticuffs with this clown

Samourai Pizzacat

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #182 on: August 07, 2012, 07:49:08 AM »
Innate intelligence simply is what made the body will heal the body.  The way I explain it is this.  Its your body, it knows what to do.  Perfect example of innate is this...what heals a cut on your hand?  The bandaid?  The anti-bacterial cream?  Nope.  Nothing.  Cut the hand of a corpse, does it heal if a bandaid is thrown on it?  Nope.  Its that 'life force' we have.  That may all seem like voodoo weird bullshit, but stop and think about it.  I am not talking about God or religion here, just something that all living creatures have.  Once that 'thing' is gone, you are dead.  

It's a new-wavy term for a normal functioning body.


chaos

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #183 on: August 07, 2012, 08:02:07 AM »
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

bigmc

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #184 on: August 07, 2012, 08:30:10 AM »
I mean no disrespect when I ask this...but how did it fuck you up? 

he was doing what i would call violent adjustments on me trying to crack everything

i could hardly walk after a few treatments and was getting headaches

he said i would get worse before i got better but i couldnt take it anymore went to a physio who identified alot of misaligment issues and damage
T

Hulkotron

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #185 on: August 07, 2012, 08:57:54 AM »
I know what she is saying.  Its the same old rhetoric that I have heard for many, many years.  The whole "I know a shitload" comment is complete bullshit.  A shitload would imply a lot, yes?  Also, its not merely the GPA that gets you into the med school.  You must have an acceptable MCAT score.  Most med students have a 3.5GPA or higher prior to entering MED school.  Wait a sec, I had a 3.68 in undergrad.  Shit, looks like I missed out on med school not because my GPA was too low, but because I was stupid to realize I had a good enough GPA to get into Med School!   ::)

That's great that you had an above average GPA but it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that entrance criteria are a lot tougher for medical school than they are for chiropractic school, which was "her" (I'm not actually sure BikiniSlut is a woman) original point.  The MCAT is not even taken for chiro school so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

You are both very defensive about even the smallest criticism leveled at chiropractic.  The problems with the field are real and valid and are not just a function of the mean old M.D. establishment picking on it unfairly, and would be better addressed by acknowledging them rather than digging in your heels and shouting about how everybody else is wrong and doesn't understand with your ears covered.

chaos

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #186 on: August 07, 2012, 09:24:31 AM »
Chiropractors..... gayer than massage "therapists". ::)
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #187 on: August 07, 2012, 09:24:56 AM »
That's great that you had an above average GPA but it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that entrance criteria are a lot tougher for medical school than they are for chiropractic school, which was "her" (I'm not actually sure BikiniSlut is a woman) original point.  The MCAT is not even taken for chiro school so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

You are both very defensive about even the smallest criticism leveled at chiropractic.  The problems with the field are real and valid and are not just a function of the mean old M.D. establishment picking on it unfairly, and would be better addressed by acknowledging them rather than digging in your heels and shouting about how everybody else is wrong and doesn't understand with your ears covered.
I'm not "defensive", I didn't feel Krank was either? It's our field, we are offering our opinions cuz there is a lot of misinformation floating around, such as the example I provided of 2 cases/1million. I felt this was a good, positive, informative exchange of opinions?

You seem like an intelligent cat, I'm sure you're very good at what it is you do professionally. I'm sure if you saw others talking about your profession and you felt you could weigh in to better explain what it is you do, you would. Feel me?

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #188 on: August 07, 2012, 09:31:25 AM »
Chiropractors..... gayer than massage "therapists". ::)
What's your occupation, skipper?

Krankenstein

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2012, 09:34:36 AM »
It's a new-wavy term for a normal functioning body.



Please try again.

BikiniSlut

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2012, 09:42:00 AM »
One of my good friends went to a chiropracter for years because of back/spine problems. She even worked a second job 15 hours a week cooking in a Zellers restaurant to pay for the treatments. She loved the guy and his treatment made her feel better.

Her family doctor told her to stop immediately as he was not curing the problem at all. He referred her to a physiotherapist....I'm not sure how long for...but within 6 months the problem was completely gone and she never needed treatment again. Her family doctor asked her if she was considering legal action which shocked the shit out of her....but he told her he was convinced the chiropracter knew exactly what was wrong but instead of fixing it knew how to keep the bucks rolling in.

Obviously not all chiropracters are like this but I don't hear stories like this about massage therapists or homeopaths.


Krankenstein

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2012, 09:49:34 AM »
Yeah, he told me the bills were automatically generated, and that he would take care of it. I actually have a letter still from my doctor, stating that him and my neurologist both thought it was the direct reult of that adjustment. As for why he adjusted my neck, I think I told him my head was hurting or something. He had done it a few times, and it always scared me. It's crazy though, the anesthesiologist that worked for the heart doctor that did my endoscopy(can't remember if that's what it was called, but they knocked me out and put a camera down my throat to check for a PFO) said her husband was a chiropractor and had heard about my experience. I guess he served on some sort of board and my chiro had to report the ncident to them. I was also telling a chiro in my gym about it (he overheard me talking about it and his radar went off I guess) and he told me that's why he doesn't do above the shoulder manipulations because of that risk. I wouldn't call your profession quackery, there are hacks in every field.

EVERY patient I adjust in the cervical region gets what is called a George's Test fairly regularly.  I also no use the amount lateral flexion and rotation that a lot of guys use.  That (in my opinion) leads to too much stretching of that vertebral artery.  I had one guy that adjusted my neck one direction and I stopped him from 'doing the other side'.  I got up and asked him how much of a running start he took to when he did that.  Fucker was offended.  I told the guy (who had been practicing for 30yrs) that I was good and that all he needed to do was do the low back adjustment I asked for and be done with it.

You are right, the guy who fucked you up SHOULD have reported it and SHOULD have kissed your ass when it came to any bill or anything.  I will say this, the only thing I have ever done was this.  A 65yo woman came to me adn started treating.  I was only doing low back adjustments and she then said her old chiro used to do the mid back as well.  I did take some films (thankfully as I saw two segments fused and the obvious appearance of osteoporosis) and told her I would use an adjusting tool if she wanted me to work on the mid back.  She declined and said that the guy adjusted her with his hands for MANY years and she would be fine.  Against my better judgement I gave a slight push on the area above the fusion.  Sure enough, I heard the pop.  There went a rib.  I felt like shit for a week.  Never again, do I let myself get talked into something like that again.  Before anyone criticizes me for that, I have heard of WAY more ribs being broken during MMA training as well as during personal training on the leg press.

Re: the legal action on the chiro above.  Good luck proving the guy knew what was wrong and didn't address it.  Its funny though, your story also is a great example of something.  An MD TELLING a patient to stop going to the chiropractor.  You are not allowed to tell a patient to stop doing anything unless you yourself are directly involved in that care.  Its called malpractice.  Practicing out of your scope.  I can not tell a patient to stop taking medication.  I can advice them of the risks and present them with information.  But in ALL CASES I tell them to discuss it with their MD.  While I do not agree with treating someone for years for a problem, I do hold the patient responsible if they let it go on.  I also will say that just because chiropractic didn't help her (say she only went six months to the chiro and not years) doesn't mean that a physiotherapist (dont you mean physical therapist?) is any better than a chiro.  Here is my philosophy : chiropractic can benefit everyone, but not everyone will benefit from chiropractic care.

chaos

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2012, 10:32:05 AM »
What's your occupation, skipper?
Professional mom doer. 8)
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Hulkotron

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #193 on: August 07, 2012, 10:35:20 AM »
Chaos typically gets to jephrius's fat sow of a mother before I can get my "foot in the door" and she's usually pretty worn out.

Raymondo

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2012, 10:35:38 AM »
EVERY patient I adjust in the cervical region gets what is called a George's Test fairly regularly.  I also no use the amount lateral flexion and rotation that a lot of guys use.  That (in my opinion) leads to too much stretching of that vertebral artery.  I had one guy that adjusted my neck one direction and I stopped him from 'doing the other side'.  I got up and asked him how much of a running start he took to when he did that.  Fucker was offended.  I told the guy (who had been practicing for 30yrs) that I was good and that all he needed to do was do the low back adjustment I asked for and be done with it.

You are right, the guy who fucked you up SHOULD have reported it and SHOULD have kissed your ass when it came to any bill or anything.  I will say this, the only thing I have ever done was this.  A 65yo woman came to me adn started treating.  I was only doing low back adjustments and she then said her old chiro used to do the mid back as well.  I did take some films (thankfully as I saw two segments fused and the obvious appearance of osteoporosis) and told her I would use an adjusting tool if she wanted me to work on the mid back.  She declined and said that the guy adjusted her with his hands for MANY years and she would be fine.  Against my better judgement I gave a slight push on the area above the fusion.  Sure enough, I heard the pop.  There went a rib.  I felt like shit for a week.  Never again, do I let myself get talked into something like that again.  Before anyone criticizes me for that, I have heard of WAY more ribs being broken during MMA training as well as during personal training on the leg press.

Re: the legal action on the chiro above.  Good luck proving the guy knew what was wrong and didn't address it.  Its funny though, your story also is a great example of something.  An MD TELLING a patient to stop going to the chiropractor.  You are not allowed to tell a patient to stop doing anything unless you yourself are directly involved in that care.  Its called malpractice.  Practicing out of your scope.  I can not tell a patient to stop taking medication.  I can advice them of the risks and present them with information.  But in ALL CASES I tell them to discuss it with their MD.  While I do not agree with treating someone for years for a problem, I do hold the patient responsible if they let it go on.  I also will say that just because chiropractic didn't help her (say she only went six months to the chiro and not years) doesn't mean that a physiotherapist (dont you mean physical therapist?) is any better than a chiro. 

You broke someone's rib, I'm surprised you didn't get hit with lawsuit.

Here is my philosophy : chiropractic can benefit everyone, but not everyone will benefit from chiropractic care.

This sounds like paradoxical thinking, it won't get you far. Don't repeat it in front of others.

Krankenstein

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #195 on: August 07, 2012, 11:41:46 AM »
You broke someone's rib, I'm surprised you didn't get hit with lawsuit.

This sounds like paradoxical thinking, it won't get you far. Don't repeat it in front of others.

Then be surprised.  When a Doctor prescribes something that has a bad side effect, not everyone sues.  Deal with it.

I said it in a deposition and explained it rather well, thanks.  Before you start drumming up stories about why I was in a deposition, it was for a personal injury case.  I actually was complimented by the plaintiffs side for how well my notes were and how the bill was by far one of the most reasonable she had seen.  Listen, just because ChiroFlex wont return your calls after that night of passion, doesn't mean you have to take it out on me.

Raymondo

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #196 on: August 07, 2012, 11:47:45 AM »
Then be surprised.  When a Doctor prescribes something that has a bad side effect, not everyone sues.  Deal with it.

I said it in a deposition and explained it rather well, thanks.  Before you start drumming up stories about why I was in a deposition, it was for a personal injury case.  I actually was complimented by the plaintiffs side for how well my notes were and how the bill was by far one of the most reasonable she had seen.  Listen, just because ChiroFlex wont return your calls after that night of passion, doesn't mean you have to take it out on me.

So you were taken to court after all?

Raymondo

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #197 on: August 07, 2012, 11:49:43 AM »
Listen, just because ChiroFlex wont return your calls after that night of passion, doesn't mean you have to take it out on me.

It's true, he won't return my calls and I can't get over his hairless bubblebutt. Perhaps I was too "forceful" with him, but it was all in the heat of the moment.

CalvinH

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #198 on: August 07, 2012, 11:57:43 AM »
Is suckymuscle listed as a bullshitter in this thread?

Irongrip400

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #199 on: August 07, 2012, 12:01:29 PM »
Is suckymuscle listed as a bullshitter in this thread?

No, and neither were you. Another list you won't make.  ;D