Author Topic: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head  (Read 34187 times)

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #225 on: August 07, 2012, 06:29:27 PM »
I lifted weights. Does that count?
Yes, sweetheart.

chaos

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #226 on: August 07, 2012, 06:31:29 PM »
Yes, sweetheart.
While you rubbed old mens backs, I was lifting heavy shit. :D
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #227 on: August 07, 2012, 06:42:55 PM »
It's not realistic to expect chiropractic research to be done by non-chiros (it wouldn't be "chiropractic research" then), but the acceptance of the field by the medical community at large is always going to be limited at best if the research (i) isn't presented to or reviewed by the community at large and (ii) doesn't conform to the standard rigors of high-quality science.
I think this is a very good post. And I agree. And from a students perspective, I am witnessing a huge shift in culture to a more evidence based model. The biggest issue is quanitifing all of our findings/results. Chiropractic helps a lot of people in a tremendous way. Since our primary goal is to influence the nervous system, we see, sometimes accidentally, extensive benefits that may not have even been the primary goal of alleviating pain and returning proper motion to fixatated joints.

Ex: today I saw a case of BP dropping 8% after an upper cervical adjustment. The patient has held the new lowered systolic BP for several weeks since his first adjustment.

Also saw a patient who received a full spineadjustment. His resting blood glucose levels dropped 200 points over his course of treatment with NO change in dietary or exercise habits.

Also saw a patient a few months ago who came in congested, with flu like symptoms. After the first adjustment, sinuses instantly opened up in a matter of seconds and literally had snot pouring out if their nose (gross), within a day their sinus infection was almost completely gone.

Also, add about a thousand migraine/otitis media cases I've seen first hand get resolved with spectacular results.

DC's see this stuff all the time, we aren't surprised by it. The researchers in our corner are finally starting to pick up the pace and put more time/money into showing this stuff and getting cases published. It hasn't been a priority, which the are trying to improve currently.

I've been the biggest skeptic of them all, I've pissed off a lot of teachers with some tough questions. At the end of the day, this works though. And people are getting better. I've spent countless hours following other successful (good) docs in the field and seeing this stuff on a daily basis. It would take more of a leap for me to doubt this than to believe in its efficacy. I've simply seen too much real world results in favor of it.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #228 on: August 07, 2012, 06:50:35 PM »
While you rubbed old mens backs, I was lifting heavy shit. :D
Good boy!!!
(scratches Chaos behind the ears and pats his head)


 :D

booty

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #229 on: August 07, 2012, 06:52:08 PM »
You stop flirting with me before we end up in an online romance.
It's those big manly arms of yours to blame.   ;D

chaos

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #230 on: August 07, 2012, 06:52:15 PM »
Good boy!!!
(scratches Chaos behind the ears and pats his head)


 :D
That's it? :-\

Don't fucking PM me begging for attention anymore, we're through! >:(
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Moen

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #231 on: August 07, 2012, 06:53:22 PM »
Moen, no disrespect, but are you a career student? And who pays for all of this? And why not get a Phd in a field. And, over here in the US, you can't do anything with a Masters in Philosophy...
Is it just a ego thing, "I have three Masters"?

I'm in Belgium. But 3 Masters is idd completely redundant, you only use one most of the time. I do plan on going into politics (which requires no degree) but I could use every one of them there (Communication Sciences, Sociology and Philosophy). My parents pay for everything and I'm also on a scholarship.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #232 on: August 07, 2012, 06:54:23 PM »
That's it? :-\

Don't fucking PM me begging for attention anymore, we're through! >:(
Lol you know you're my favorite here bro

orangeman

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #233 on: August 07, 2012, 06:55:09 PM »
lots of ghfourteen board type ass kissing going in these days

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #234 on: August 07, 2012, 06:55:57 PM »
It's those big manly arms of yours to blame.   ;D
I just had a medium sized amount of blood rush into my penis.

Does this mean we're "official"?

booty

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #235 on: August 07, 2012, 07:37:50 PM »
I just had a medium sized amount of blood rush into my penis.

Does this mean we're "official"?
No that doesn't count.   8)

viking1

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #236 on: August 07, 2012, 08:03:04 PM »

booty

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #237 on: August 07, 2012, 09:04:38 PM »

Does apply85 know that you have his childhood pic?   ;D

syntaxmachine

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #238 on: August 08, 2012, 01:18:38 AM »

Perfect example of innate is this...what heals a cut on your hand?  The bandaid?  The anti-bacterial cream?  Nope.  Nothing.  Cut the hand of a corpse, does it heal if a bandaid is thrown on it?  Nope.  Its that 'life force' we have.  That may all seem like voodoo weird bullshit, but stop and think about it.  I am not talking about God or religion here, just something that all living creatures have.  Once that 'thing' is gone, you are dead.


Your words only reinforce my point, which is that certain aspects of chiropractic amount to metaphysically extravagant doctrines with no basis in science. The tandem of functional and molecular biology is more than sufficient for explaining the mechanisms that produce anything and everything the body does, from its ability to self repair to its possessing the simple property of 'being alive'. No magical life force need be posited; in fact, to do is bad philosophy, let alone bad science. This sort of high school-level philosophizing is a major liability for your craft.

Quote

Prominent MD's are saying it.


Many more prominent MD's are saying it is not. Therefore, whether your claim is an appeal to popularity or to authority, it doesn't work. It seems to me that we shouldn't rely on either of these methods to assess chiropractic's efficacy anyway.

Quote

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2050630/


You already pointed out why this study does nothing to demonstrate that SMT in particular is effective in treating migraines: literally any treatment usually succeeds in reducing migraine frequency. In addition, the study is uncontrolled, meaning it does nothing to account for the placebo effect.

Why are you posting research that does nothing to advance your argument?

Quote

Lastly, you keep talking about the placebo effect.  No matter if you talk chiropractic or allopathic medicine, there is a placebo effect.  Anything from anti-depressants, meds for chronic fatigue, arthritis pain, and even cancer have individuals that respond to a placebo.  You can not throw chiropractic in there with a negative light and not look at the facts surrounding medications as well.


Again, fixing upon specific features of the medical industry does nothing to vindicate chiropractic. Imagine a possible world where the medical industry's treatments are complete crap. You would be able to point this out all you like and it would do precisely nothing to demonstrate the efficacy of chiropractic. Only positive research can do that.

Finally, while the placebo effect is certainly real in a variety of treatments -- including in those embraced by the medical industry -- the difference here is that there is plenty of medical research that accounts for it and demonstrates the efficacy of a given treatment above and beyond it. Think of drug trials that consistently evince A amount of improvement in symptoms in X% of patients in treatment groups versus only Y% in control groups (those taking sugar pills). I've seen nothing similar when it comes to demonstrating the efficacy of specific chiropractic treatments, and nothing that parses the effects of chiropractic treatments versus other variables like the so-called 'power of touch'.

Moen

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #239 on: August 08, 2012, 02:54:42 AM »
"Why are you posting research that does nothing to advance your argument?"

That's a no-brainer syntaxmachine  :D

Krankenstein

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #240 on: August 08, 2012, 05:21:38 AM »
Your words only reinforce my point, which is that certain aspects of chiropractic amount to metaphysically extravagant doctrines with no basis in science. The tandem of functional and molecular biology is more than sufficient for explaining the mechanisms that produce anything and everything the body does, from its ability to self repair to its possessing the simple property of 'being alive'. No magical life force need be posited; in fact, to do is bad philosophy, let alone bad science. This sort of high school-level philosophizing is a major liability for your craft.

I couldn't agree more that they are the ones in my profession that have created a 'mystique' about what they do, almost to the point where it would not surprise me that they claim they were 'given this gift of healing by god'.  The offices I have seen where I am half expecting a crystal ball and incense to be burning.  There are two basic scientific theories with chiropractic, the "biomechanics hypothesis," and the "nerve compression hypothesis."  Will there ever be a 100% irrefutable study either pro or con for chiropractic.  Nope.  As we all know, someone will find a flaw with something that was done in the study no matter what.  I would hope you can agree with me on this one.  

All I ask is for you to explain this to me.  What is it that separates a living creature, from a dead one?  What does the live one possess that the dead one does not.  Using my example of the cut, what allows the cut to be healed in the live creature, and not the dead one?  What would you consider that force/ability/etc?  You say that the tandem of functional and molecular biology is more than sufficient?  I would enjoy reading an expanded explanation on this seeing as you appear to have all the necessary knowledge to do so.  It would interesting to relay that explanation to my patients then rather than come across as being so 'metaphysical' as you claim I am.

I pointed out a study showing that there is efficacy to what I do.  Was a simple search that took seconds.  Are there others?  Yes.  Do I want to continue to sit here and pull study after study out?  Nope.  Are there contradictory studies to Chiropractic care?  Yes.  Bottom line: Do I care?  Not too much anymore.  I get pulled into these kinds of things because I am passionate about what I do.  I never claim to heal someone.  I say that what I do helps people, that's all.  The mere fact that my profession is becoming more and more accepted on a daily basis is enough to encourage me to keep doing what I am doing.  I won't be able to help everyone.  No one profession can claim that.  Yet, people like Moener-boy likes to keep chiming in with this rhetoric, but has yet to provide anything else to the discussion other than "I am only relaying what I am told by this group of people".  I at least respect what you have to say because you actually form intelligent and educated responses.

chaos

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #241 on: August 08, 2012, 06:52:52 AM »
Couple of over explanation, self defensive, meltdowny kinda posters in this thread.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head
« Reply #242 on: August 08, 2012, 07:02:34 AM »
Couple of over explanation, self defensive, meltdowny kinda posters in this thread.
State your occupation and your location and the hours when you are usually home. Also, the last 4 of your social. Thanks.