Bullshitters.... someone that makes up shit so often you shake your head

[ritch]

I predict a lot of bs here...

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=435468.0

[BikiniSlut]

I've never met somebody who actually wanted to be a chiropracter unless other family members were involved.

It seems to me most are just people that couldn't do med or dental school so they ended up choosing chiropractic. In university I knew a shitload of students that turned to chiro because they couldn't get the GPA needed for pharmacy, med or dental.

[viking1]

A shame?  When I hear that a medical 'doctor' has sent a patient for test, after test, after test, and prescribed pill, after pill, after pill....only to have the patient NOT get better.  I think its a shame they are called a 'doctor'
[/quote]

Sometimes, I view them as professional drug peddlers. Chasing the symptom cycles with meds, then chasing the side effects of the meds with more meds, and so on.

Just keep on pulling out that pad and writing scripts to chase symptoms and don't give a shit about what the cause is. Instant gratification to the patient and send them on their way.

[Hulkotron]

Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't take good care of themselves and don't take responsibility for their own health, then expect the doctor to be a miracle worker.

Most people aren't as physically inclined (i.e. enjoy exercise) as the posters on this forum.  Only a terrible doctor will see someone with high blood pressure and put them on meds and send them on their way, they might put them on meds but they'll also be like "okay you need to stop getting 10 times the RDA of sodium every day and start exercising more" but most of America is lazy and will fuck off the diet and exercise and expect the pills to solve the problem.

Likewise most people think "diet" is something you do for eight weeks that fixes everything permanently then you go back to your usual disgusting lifestyle.

[Shockwave]

Sometimes, I view them as professional drug peddlers. Chasing the symptom cycles with meds, then chasing the side effects of the meds with more meds, and so on.

Just keep on pulling out that pad and writing scripts to chase symptoms and don't give a shit about what the cause is. Instant gratification to the patient and send them on their way.

I mostly agree with this - most general practitioners seem to be walking script dispensaries. But they wont prescribe you things that work, that could be addictive if abused, they'd rather prescribe you whatever new wonder drug that the Pharm companies are peddling that will cause a laundry list of side effects without really treating anything.

Whats hilarious is that they may refuse to prescribe you with something like Vicodin or Percoset due to its addictive qualities, but they'll prescribe you with a drug they know nothing about that will come out later to be 10x as addictive or harmful as the "bad" stuff.
Or they'll try and fix everything with SSRI's that may cause you to go psychotic or suicidal.

[Krankenstein]

I've never met somebody who actually wanted to be a chiropracter unless other family members were involved.

It seems to me most are just people that couldn't do med or dental school so they ended up choosing chiropractic. In university I knew a shitload of students that turned to chiro because they couldn't get the GPA needed for pharmacy, med or dental.

Couldnt do?  How about had no desire to do it because I found something I was passionate about.  Wow, the ignorance continues.  My GPA in undergrad was 3.68, coming out of chiro was 3.89

Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't take good care of themselves and don't take responsibility for their own health, then expect the doctor to be a miracle worker.

No matter what the doctor....that is the truth has been spoken right there. 

I mostly agree with this - most general practitioners seem to be walking script dispensaries. But they wont prescribe you things that work, that could be addictive if abused, they'd rather prescribe you whatever new wonder drug that the Pharm companies are peddling that will cause a laundry list of side effects without really treating anything.

Whats hilarious is that they may refuse to prescribe you with something like Vicodin or Percoset due to its addictive qualities, but they'll prescribe you with a drug they know nothing about that will come out later to be 10x as addictive or harmful as the "bad" stuff.
Or they'll try and fix everything with SSRI's that may cause you to go psychotic or suicidal.

I wish I could remember where I saw it, but there was a report that came out on the kickbacks a doctor got for prescribing one drug over another.  Think about the movie "Love and other drugs".  From what I am told, thats EXACTLY how it is.





Yep, chiropractors sure are not 'real doctors'.  Where are my kickbacks like 'real doctors' get??

[viking1]

 

[Princess L]

I wish I could remember where I saw it, but there was a report that came out on the kickbacks a doctor got for prescribing one drug over another.  Think about the movie "Love and other drugs".  From what I am told, thats EXACTLY how it is.

And guess where doctors get their "education" on pharmacologicals?

[Big Chiro Flex]

I had a friend who was married to a DC (R.I.P).  He had a very successful practice, I think in part because he didn't have any competition.  I wouldn't let him touch me with a ten foot pole!  They were in another state anyway.  I saw a DC for years who had VERY DIFFERENT methods and I thought he was helping me.  I thought because he was personable and we had a good rapport and I felt better momentarily that he was doing the right thing.  It wasn't until I started seeing a massage therapist and doing corrective exercises that I realized he was just milking my insurance.

Years later, I met a DC again, with very different methods (all of them out of Palmer).  I've seen him a few times over the years, but 99.9% of the time, he refers me to a massage therapist and recommends specific exercises.  His approach is to help the patient help themselves as much as possible.

My point is that there are good and bad in any profession.  Just because someone is educated in a particular field doesn't mean they're any good.  Hey ~ someone has to be at the bottom of the class!  Professionals need to realize their limitations and check their egos at the door.  Just because they have a shingle hanging on their wall doesn't mean squat!

Should this thread be split into 2 topics?

I agree with the last part. Any doctor in the health care field has to undergoe hell to get through school, ill hear anybody out who has done this. There are good and bad people in every field.

[Big Chiro Flex]

I've never met somebody who actually wanted to be a chiropracter unless other family members were involved.

It seems to me most are just people that couldn't do med or dental school so they ended up choosing chiropractic. In university I knew a shitload of students that turned to chiro because they couldn't get the GPA needed for pharmacy, med or dental.

My current class, or 129 students, which I spend 9 hours in the same room with, 5 days a week, along with road trips to seminars on weekends, extracurricular technique/speciality clubs after class, and socializing with whenever we get a second of free time, has NONE that I know of that have attempted any other program and failed/dropped out. I suppose someone could have hid this dirty secret from me, but we are a tit knit group, anyone who has gone through a rigorous post grad program can attest to the bond you build with your class. It's certainly not common what you are referring to, def not in my class of 129, and I'm in the biggest/most reputable Chiro school in THE WORLD.

[Hulkotron]

NONE that I know of that have attempted any other program and failed/dropped out.

That's not what she's saying, she's saying her perception is that people go to chiropractic school because they don't have the grades to get into more selective professional schools in medicine.

[chaos]

Weak backs.

[Big Chiro Flex]

That's not what she's saying, she's saying her perception is that people go to chiropractic school because they don't have the grades to get into more selective professional schools in medicine.

We had a bunch fail out during the 1st year cuz they couldn't hack the rigorous program. My post still applies, right?

If not, I am a strong man and am ready to fight.

 

[da_vinci]

I know one fella like that. Makes shit up VERY often, and sometimes to a highly rediculous degree, a grown man, and I have no idea why he does that. ALl the "bigger than life" persona, etc.. At the begining I used to get an urge to punch him in the face to get him back to the "reality", but after some time I just don't listen anymore most of the time.. Dude loves to brag and tell stories, real and imagined for anyone who'll listen, and he's VERY serious about that.. Awkward.

[Krankenstein]

That's not what she's saying, she's saying her perception is that people go to chiropractic school because they don't have the grades to get into more selective professional schools in medicine.

I know what she is saying.  Its the same old rhetoric that I have heard for many, many years.  The whole "I know a shitload" comment is complete bullshit.  A shitload would imply a lot, yes?  Also, its not merely the GPA that gets you into the med school.  You must have an acceptable MCAT score.  Most med students have a 3.5GPA or higher prior to entering MED school.  Wait a sec, I had a 3.68 in undergrad.  Shit, looks like I missed out on med school not because my GPA was too low, but because I was stupid to realize I had a good enough GPA to get into Med School!   

[cephissus]

all jabs aside, i would love to get some of these subluxations out...

[Big Chiro Flex]

all jabs aside, i would love to get some of these subluxations out...

I'll "adjust" you anyday, stud

[syntaxmachine]

Pointing out the flaws of the medical industry (e.g., the excessive influence of pharmaceutical companies) is a worthy activity, but doing so doesn't thereby vindicate chiropractic. It is entirely possible that both industries have serious flaws. All of the talk here is non-demonstrative until somebody refers to quality research demonstrating the efficacy of chiropractic treatments above and beyond the placebo effect.

Also, those chiros that uphold metaphysical bullshit and anti-scientific concepts like vitalism and innate intelligence make the whole lot of you look absolutely terrible.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Pointing out the flaws of the medical industry (e.g., the excessive influence of pharmaceutical companies) is a worthy activity, but doing so doesn't thereby vindicate chiropractic. It is entirely possible that both industries have serious flaws. All of the talk here is non-demonstrative until somebody refers to quality research demonstrating the efficacy of chiropractic treatments above and beyond the placebo effect.

Also, those chiros that uphold metaphysical bullshit and anti-scientific concepts like vitalism and innate intelligence make the whole lot of you look absolutely terrible.

There are studies showing benefits of "spinal manipulation" though?

I'm not bashing medicine either, I'm friends with some very good GPs and ortho-surgeons. I think much of what you're mentioning was in response to some in this thread comparing chiropractic to medicine, as if that is the "benchmark/gold standard".

[cephissus]

I'll "adjust" you anyday, stud

Once I get the money, I'm flying out to your "exact location" posthaste.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Once I get the money, I'm flying out to your "exact location" posthaste.

Lol   

[Krankenstein]

Pointing out the flaws of the medical industry (e.g., the excessive influence of pharmaceutical companies) is a worthy activity, but doing so doesn't thereby vindicate chiropractic. It is entirely possible that both industries have serious flaws. All of the talk here is non-demonstrative until somebody refers to quality research demonstrating the efficacy of chiropractic treatments above and beyond the placebo effect.

Also, those chiros that uphold metaphysical bullshit and anti-scientific concepts like vitalism and innate intelligence make the whole lot of you look absolutely terrible.

Innate intelligence simply is what made the body will heal the body.  The way I explain it is this.  Its your body, it knows what to do.  Perfect example of innate is this...what heals a cut on your hand?  The bandaid?  The anti-bacterial cream?  Nope.  Nothing.  Cut the hand of a corpse, does it heal if a bandaid is thrown on it?  Nope.  Its that 'life force' we have.  That may all seem like voodoo weird bullshit, but stop and think about it.  I am not talking about God or religion here, just something that all living creatures have.  Once that 'thing' is gone, you are dead.  

Whats funny is that its not just Chiros that talk about the efficacy of getting adjusted.  Prominent MD's are saying it.

Please define 'quality research'.  No matter what study anyone will produce, serious flaws are bound to be found by the opposing party.  For example a simple search of 'research efficacy chiropractic' would reveal this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2050630/

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that Chiropractic SMT is an effective treatment for migraine with aura. However, due to the cyclical nature of migraine with aura, and the finding that episodes usually reduce following any intervention, further research is required. A prospective randomised controlled trial utilising detuned EPT (interferential), a sham manipulation group and an SMT group is nearing conclusion. It is anticipated this trial will provide further information of the efficacy of Chiropractic SMT in the treatment of migraine with aura.

Don't think that I didn't read the following line about any intervention.  Point I would make is that so many of my patients with migraines are tired of the meds.  Tired of coming into their MD's office, waiting 45 mins, for them to be seen for 10 mins, get a script, then pay their co-pay, then wait in line at the pharmacy, get their meds, then get home.  They can simply walk into my office, and be back in a treatment room with me in 10 mins.  I have 'urgent' protocols with patients.  Meaning, that if someone like that comes in, they generally are seen faster.  Not ONE patient has ever abused that.

Lastly, you keep talking about the placebo effect.  No matter if you talk chiropractic or allopathic medicine, there is a placebo effect.  Anything from anti-depressants, meds for chronic fatigue, arthritis pain, and even cancer have individuals that respond to a placebo.  You can not throw chiropractic in there with a negative light and not look at the facts surrounding medications as well.

[Parker]

I have yet to see that someone adding that former Mr. O Franco Columbu is a Chiro, which thus ends this trivial exchange.

[Krankenstein]

There are studies showing benefits of "spinal manipulation" though?

I'm not bashing medicine either, I'm friends with some very good GPs and ortho-surgeons. I think much of what you're mentioning was in response to some in this thread comparing chiropractic to medicine, as if that is the "benchmark/gold standard".

You may want to rephrase that ol' buddy.  We do practice medicine.  Unfortunately, people associate that term only with pills and surgery.  Earlier in the thread there is a definition of medicine.  Do I think chiropractic can cure stage 4 cancer?  Nope.  Otherwise my dad would be around today.  Do I think it has a tremendous effect on a lot of conditions?  Yep.

Chiropractic care and the immune response...there is some interesting stuff out there:

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articles/PMC2945351//reload=0;jsessionid=UYXw43y0YqqzB7SaYxIl.20

Spinal manipulative treatment does not increase interleukin-2 -dependent polyclonal immunoglobulin synthesis by mitogen-activated B cells. However, antibody synthesis induced by interleukin-2 alone can be, at least temporarily, augmented following spinal manipulation. Thus, under certain physiological conditions spinal manipulative treatment might influence interleukin-2 -regulated biological responses.

So, who knows what else can be affected by the adjustment.  Again, DO NOT take from this that I am advocating that the adjustment will replace medications.  Medications have their time and place.  Just interesting that we haven't scratched the surface on some stuff.

How is not mentioning Franco an ending to this trivial exchange?  What has he contributed to my profession?  Other than being a 'famous name'...not a whole hell of a lot.  Please try again.

[Irongrip400]

I got to 5 pages in, and it all seemed to be about chiropractors, so if it has steered back to the original conversation of bullshitters, please forgive me. I have used a chiropractor before, and stroked out in the office. Ambulance had to come get me and rush me to the hospital. All of this was from a neck adjustment. Now, I will say that when I was going weekly, it did help my lower back, but once I was going once a month, it didn't help as much. I have 2 blown discs in my lower back btw. Anyway, this dude was a bit of a snake. He was the type that would tell you he could cure cancer with spinal adjustments and what not. Now, I will not pretend that we know everything about medicine, and that holistic healing doesn't work, but I found that hard to believe. Anyway, haven't been since and that was 5 years ago. It was funny, I got a bill for that visit, and called him and told him unless he wanted a problem, he needed to eat that invoice.