Phil Heath Exclusive Interview with VNM-TV: Coleman or Yates? GH15??

[TRock99]

In this shot Shawn looks way better. As a personal preference I think Shawn's physique was better, more aesthetic, better arms and legs.
But looking at the entire contest, not just one pic, it is clear to see why Dorian won. His advantage in size, condition and structure were too much for Shawn or Kevin.

One dude looks like a real bodybuilder (Shawn) and the other like a Huge gym rat (Dorian), Dorian had great conditioning, but his structure sucked and he was the main reason for the decline of real bodybuilding.
Sorry dudes true  

[NarcissisticDeity]

Pose is decieving. Do the pose the Dorian is doing, you must bring your shoulders out, and flare out your elbows. This is diff than what Ronnie is doing--just standing.
Go to the mirror and do both and see the difference. you can change your illusion of width.

I only posted that one because it's them side-by-side and neither hit the shot at the exact same time but someone did get both of them doing separately and placed it side-by-side , the results are the same. Ronnie is slightly twisted but not enough to make a difference .

Ronnie wasn't Wolf in the clavicle department , he wasn't Heath either.

[El Diablo Blanco]

I only posted that one because it's them side-by-side and neither hit the shot at the exact same time but someone did get both of them doing separately and placed it side-by-side , the results are the same. Ronnie is slightly twisted but not enough to make a difference .

Ronnie wasn't Wolf in the clavicle department , he wasn't Heath either.

Completely irrelevant.  It was at this time that Ronnie started some new drug or routine of drugs and turned into something crazy.  Ronnie never turned into the freak until after this show.  it's like comparing Dorian before he won the Mr. Olympia to a Ronnie who was winning it.

[G_Thang]

I only posted that one because it's them side-by-side and neither hit the shot at the exact same time but someone did get both of them doing separately and placed it side-by-side , the results are the same. Ronnie is slightly twisted but not enough to make a difference .

Ronnie wasn't Wolf in the clavicle department , he wasn't Heath either.

it still doesn't work because ronnie was taller than yates and you have compressed him to the same size. i'll go with yates on this one, that ronnie was better over the long haul.  there's no debate because that came from the man himself.

[NarcissisticDeity]

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Same contest Ronnie doesn't compare

[NarcissisticDeity]

it still doesn't work because ronnie was taller than yates and you have compressed him to the same size. i'll go with yates on this one, that ronnie was better over the long haul.  there's no debate because that came from the man himself.

Ronnie was 1/2" an inch taller that's squabbling.

[jprc10]

One dude looks like a real bodybuilder (Shawn) and the other like a Huge gym rat (Dorian), Dorian had great conditioning, but his structure sucked and he was the main reason for the decline of real bodybuilding.
Sorry dudes true  

Shawn was more aesthetic and I agree he had a better 'look', but he was not a better bodybuilder in terms of the judging and what wins contests.
It is completely mistaken to say Dorian's structure sucked, he actually had one of the best structures in bodybuilding. Do you know what a good structure is? A good structure isn't only having a taper or a small waist. Dorian actually had a much better structure than Shawn, he was much wider/wider clavicles, taller, better limb/torso length ratio. Shawn's only advantage was a smaller waist. The fact that Dorian ruined his aesthetics becoming a mass monster is another story.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Completely irrelevant.  It was at this time that Ronnie started some new drug or routine of drugs and turned into something crazy.  Ronnie never turned into the freak until after this show.  it's like comparing Dorian before he won the Mr. Olympia to a Ronnie who was winning it.

Actually not true because what did Ronnie improve on from this contest to his Olympia win? conditioning. did he get bigger? NO he was already 250lbs here and 255lbs in 1997 and he weighed a completely peeled 249lbs in 1998

We're not talking Ronnie here compared to 2003 and no matter how dry Ronnie became his structure , muscle length , clavicle width and balance & proportions would NOT ever change , these you can't change

[NarcissisticDeity]

Shawn was more aesthetic and I agree he had better 'look', but he was not a better bodybuilder in terms of the judging and what wins contests.
It is completely mistaken to say Dorian's structured sucked, he actually had one of the best structures in bodybuilding. Do you know what a good structure is? A good structure isn't only having a taper or a small waist. Dorian actually had a much better structure than Shawn, he was much wider/wider clavicles, taller, better limb/torso length ratio. Shawn's only advantage was a smaller waist. The fact that Dorian ruined his aesthetics becoming a mass monster is another story.

Shawn had better ' symmetry ' than Dorian and aesthetics but so did Flex doesn't mean much never did. Dorian did have a good structure and great balance & proportion but he was never aesthetic in the traditional sense.

people can't separate what they like from what wins , I bitched and moaned that Flex was screwed over back in 1993 and contests were fixed because I preferred Flex to Dorian then I realized I was wrong.

[NarcissisticDeity]

lots of opinions with racist undertones in this thread

Yeah every black guy in it scoffs at the idea a white guy might be better. I don't think it has so much to do with race as it does preference.

[RocketSwitch625]

It's all starting to fall apart for the Coleman nut-huggers especially with pics like this being posted.

[mesmorph78]

Gentlemen, for the sake of my time and sanity, I'll no longer argue this point. We'll have to agree to disagree...lol

Exactly maybe if Ronnie was white they could see Is the only answer I could come up with in any event to my eyes Coleman looks better there better back better taper
That was 96 and Coleman was nowhere near his peak or even 98
Peak Coleman Dorian is not close sorry
That's my final statement in regards to this debate

[mesmorph78]

Epic backfire on posting that pic lol

Any bodybuilding judge on the planet will give the nod to Yates in that pic

All opinion that's like you saying that lobster looks good and posting a pic
Of it then me saying no it looks gross
Does that mean the lobster isnt good... ?
Because I said so???
 
When they talk about  the greatest mainly 2 names come up


Arnold and KING Coleman ... 
Debating this further is pointless I'll leave it where it is now

[jprc10]

Shawn had better ' symmetry ' than Dorian and aesthetics but so did Flex doesn't mean much never did. Dorian did have a good structure and great balance & proportion but he was never aesthetic in the traditional sense.

people can't separate what they like from what wins , I bitched and moaned that Flex was screwed over back in 1993 and contests were fixed because I preferred Flex to Dorian then I realized I was wrong.

It's true, I couldn't separate them either, but then I learned what wins contests and understood how guys like Dorian dominated the way they did.
I think most Ronnie fans here do the same, they like Ronnie better for whatever reason and think he'd win, but when asked why they can't explain.

[jprc10]

All opinion that's like you saying that lobster looks good and posting a pic
Of it then me saying no it looks gross
Does that mean the lobster isnt good... ?
Because I said so???
 
When they talk about  the greatest mainly 2 names come up


Arnold and KING Coleman ... 
Debating this further is pointless I'll leave it where it is now

Opinion is fine, but it is not the same as what would win a contest based on an objective criteria.
If you think Ronnie looks better in the pic you posted fine, but it doesn't mean he wins the shot as he clearly doesn't

[mesmorph78]

That's YOUR opinion so it's all based on opinion
In any event I still thing Ronnie looks better in that shot And I don't care who says different this "sport is based on opinion ....
Ronnie looks better and that's small Ronnie 96
Coleman 98 Dorian no chance not close no comparison

[NarcissisticDeity]

That's YOUR opinion so it's all based on opinion
In any event I still thing Ronnie looks better in that shot And I don't care who says different this "sport is based on opinion ....
Ronnie looks better and that's small Ronnie 96
Coleman 98 Dorian no chance not close no comparison

One I thought you were done with this topic , twice now? two small Ronnie? funny Ronnie weighed 250lbs in 96 and 249 in 98 three the side-by-side Dorian is making him look SMALL and he's only 7 lbs heavier

[NarcissisticDeity]

Exactly maybe if Ronnie was white they could see Is the only answer I could come up with in any event to my eyes Coleman looks better there better back better taper
That was 96 and Coleman was nowhere near his peak or even 98
Peak Coleman Dorian is not close sorry
That's my final statement in regards to this debate

The only thing Ronnie had better than Dorian in 1996 was biceps and taper everywhere else he gets blown off the stage and the closest he ever came to Dorian was a very distant sixth place

fact is Ronnie was never in Dorian's league faced him 9 times and lost every time and even after Yates retired and Ronnie started to win he still said Dorian would hand him his ass. 

Dorian was a winning machine , statistically he wouldn't lose , Dorian would be the odds on favorite

[mesmorph78]

The only thing Ronnie had better than Dorian in 1996 was biceps and taper everywhere else he gets blown off the stage and the closest he ever came to Dorian was a very distant sixth place

fact is Ronnie was never in Dorian's league faced him 9 times and lost every time and even after Yates retired and Ronnie started to win he still said Dorian would hand him his ass. 

Dorian was a winning machine , statistically he wouldn't lose , Dorian would be the odds on favorite

All your opinion ... Which is fine you aren't gonna change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours
Like I said you have arnold and KING COLEMAN Yates was not impressive nor have great shape he just had a good back.... He is the branch of yesteryear in my eyes .... Paul kevin shawn flex all
Better physiques... Imo

[NarcissisticDeity]

All your opinion ... Which is fine you aren't gonna change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours
Like I said you have arnold and KING COLEMAN Yates was not impressive nor have great shape he just had a good back.... He is the branch of yesteryear in my eyes .... Paul kevin shawn flex all
Better physiques... Imo

Actually NO it's not all my opinion. lot of facts in there and they aren't open for discussion. I know your  opinion quite well doesn't change the facts though.

Meso you're just gonna have to face facts Ronnie was never in Dorian's league 

[jprc10]

mesmorph, it's not only our opinion, it's also based on a judging criteria. That's why we say that Dorian would win or that he wins that 96 shot. You just say you think Ronnie is better, which is ok, but doesn't change the facts.
Do you even know the criteria? Do you know how contests are judged?

Also ND is right, a lot of facts he posted show Dorian had the advantage.

[mesmorph78]

Actually NO it's not all my opinion. lot of facts in there and they aren't open for discussion. I know your  opinion quite well doesn't change the facts though.

Meso you're just gonna have to face facts Ronnie was never in Dorian's league 

Facts are a world record a lap time etc bbibg is nothing more than a glorified beauty contest.... To be fair so there a no facts to face my friend.... I would gamble on the following "fact" more of the bbibg community recognises ronni as superior by far .... Hence why you will oft hear "Ronnie was from another planet" and he still has not being surpassed at peak .... It's been quited in flex md and other bbibg magazines Ronnie to the "sport to another level" so that would imply Dorians level has long being surpassed just you and a small faction holds onto the grains (pun intended)
Around 15 on this whole site I'd estimate concurs with you... Nameless you one hard , iceman , England 1 ( no surprise there) rocket etc...
Majority holds ... Coleman as the greatest and that my friend is fact...
So we're gonna have to respectfully disagree on this topic
Meso
 

I'll leave it hulkser and you to trash it out
 

[jprc10]

Facts are a world record a lap time etc bbibg is nothing more than a glorified beauty contest.... To be fair so there a no facts to face my friend.... I would gamble on the following "fact" more of the bbibg community recognises ronni as superior by far .... Hence why you will oft hear "Ronnie was from another planet" and he still has not being surpassed at peak .... It's been quited in flex md and other bbibg magazines Ronnie to the "sport to another level" so that would imply Dorians level has long being surpassed just you and a small faction holds onto the grains (pun intended)
Around 15 on this whole site I'd estimate concurs with you... Nameless you one hard , iceman , England 1 ( no surprise there) rocket etc...
Majority holds ... Coleman as the greatest and that my friend is fact...
So we're gonna have to respectfully disagree on this topic
Meso
 

I'll leave it hulkser and you to trash it out
 

I've read the quote game before and I'll just say that just as many people in the 'bbing community' have said Dorian is better than Ronnie as the people that have said Ronnie is better than Dorian.
And I know this one hurts you and all Ronnie fans, but.......Ronnie himself said Dorian would beat him!  lol

[Parker]

I've read the quote game before and I'll just say that just as many people in the 'bbing community' have said Dorian is better than Ronnie as the people that have said Ronnie is better than Dorian.
And I know this one hurts you and all Ronnie fans, but.......Ronnie himself said Dorian would beat him!  lol

Dorian only beat Ronnie to torn/effed up body parts. And Ronnie has beaten Dorian in deteriorating the quickest. I say, it's a draw.

[OTHstrong]

Dorian only beat Ronnie to torn/effed up body parts. And Ronnie has beaten Dorian in deteriorating the quickest. I say, it's a draw.

The truth is this debate will go on for ions.

But consider this, the whole bodybuilding community, and I mean everyone is always talking about how LEGENDARY the 90`s bodybuilding is and how shitty the 2000`s era is and was. Ronnie struggled against a shitty era and Dorian dominated and slaughtered a legendary era. And if you say `Well Coleman won in the 90`s as well, fine but struggled and barely won.