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Author Topic: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain  (Read 19426 times)
pj braun
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« Reply #200 on: October 14, 2012, 01:25:05 PM »

translation:

I'm just going from the top to bottom  Grin  Grin  Grin

Gay fantasizing... You must be one of my subscribers on FB. No, I will not wrestle you... No, you can't buy my underwear.
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #201 on: October 14, 2012, 01:35:02 PM »

Why is it so hard to believe that with 30 years of dedication someone can attain an 185lbs stage ready physique.

Because it doesn't work like that, 185 is not his peak muscular weight after 30 years of training. You don't put on muscle slowly at an even rate. John is just maintaining, trying to hold on to muscle he used to have. Even druggies experience this after a certain age, when you have to throw everything at it just to maintain (and ultimately fail).

If bodyweight and years training were the determining factor in whether someone is on drugs then Gaspari and Labrada would be natural today, but they are not. But by your logic they could easily claim this, and I'm sure they would.

John has had a drugged look, to different degrees, in many of his competitive years (after 1991 when he says he got off permanently).

There is no drug testing in "natural bodybuilding", not anything worth calling drug testing anyway.
And "athletes" will do anything they can get away with, otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing as drug testing in the first place (in any sport). There is no "honor" with regards to this issue. They will not obey rules if they think they can get away with cheating - and cheating is easy because the rules cannot be enforced... there is no one who would want to enforce them anyway. As 'tommywishbone' said, no one watches true natural bodybuilding.

NO WAY TO ENFORCE THE RULES = ZERO INCENTIVE TO COMPLY WITH THE SILLY RULES

Therefore there is no natural bodybuilding really.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #202 on: October 14, 2012, 01:42:00 PM »

Because it doesn't work like that, 185 is not his peak muscular weight after 30 years of training. You don't put on muscle slowly at an even rate. John is just maintaining, trying to hold on to muscle he used to have. Even druggies experience this after a certain age, when you have to throw everything at it just to maintain (and ultimately fail).

If bodyweight and years training were the determining factor in whether someone is on drugs then Gaspari and Labrada would be natural today, but they are not. But by your logic they could easily claim this, and I'm sure they would.

John has had a drugged look, to different degrees, in many of his competitive years (after 1991 when he says he got off permanently).

There is no drug testing in "natural bodybuilding", not anything worth calling drug testing anyway.
And "athletes" will do anything they can get away with, otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing as drug testing in the first place (in any sport). There is no "honor" with regards to this issue. They will not obey rules if they think they can get away with cheating - and cheating is easy because the rules cannot be enforced... there is no one who would want to enforce them anyway. As 'tommywishbone' said, no one watches true natural bodybuilding.

NO WAY TO ENFORCE THE RULES = ZERO INCENTIVE TO COMPLY WITH THE SILLY RULES

Therefore there is no natural bodybuilding really.

And what is "true natural bodybuilding"?

You guys can't make up your mind. Anyone who looks good with reasonably attainable physique, who claims to be natural, you swear that he's lying.

Yet, you turn around and accuse anyone of using steroids as being "all drugs".

It sounds like a case of sour grapes.
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« Reply #203 on: October 14, 2012, 01:45:49 PM »

Because it doesn't work like that, 185 is not his peak muscular weight after 30 years of training. You don't put on muscle slowly at an even rate. John is just maintaining, trying to hold on to muscle he used to have. Even druggies experience this after a certain age, when you have to throw everything at it just to maintain (and ultimately fail).

If bodyweight and years training were the determining factor in whether someone is on drugs then Gaspari and Labrada would be natural today, but they are not. But by your logic they could easily claim this, and I'm sure they would.

John has had a drugged look, to different degrees, in many of his competitive years (after 1991 when he says he got off permanently).

There is no drug testing in "natural bodybuilding", not anything worth calling drug testing anyway.
And "athletes" will do anything they can get away with, otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing as drug testing in the first place (in any sport). There is no "honor" with regards to this issue. They will not obey rules if they think they can get away with cheating - and cheating is easy because the rules cannot be enforced... there is no one who would want to enforce them anyway. As 'tommywishbone' said, no one watches true natural bodybuilding.

NO WAY TO ENFORCE THE RULES = ZERO INCENTIVE TO COMPLY WITH THE SILLY RULES

Therefore there is no natural bodybuilding really.

Van, pointing out that one doesn't continue to improve and put on muscle endlessly into old age isn't necessary. Even I know that! Lol.

John isn't a large man. i have met him in real life, and I 100% believe he is natural. But then again, what do I know. I have only spent my entire adult life getting people inshape for shows, attending show, competing myself, or speaking with people at the highest levels of the sport of bodybuilding.
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #204 on: October 14, 2012, 01:50:06 PM »

And what is "true natural bodybuilding"?

You guys can't make up your mind. Anyone who looks good with reasonably attainable physique, who claims to be natural, you swear that he's lying.

Yet, you turn around and accuse anyone of using steroids as being "all drugs".

It sounds like a case of sour grapes.

There are some natural trainees, I know quite a few of them. But when someones whole identity is built around looking muscular things change. This is without even taking into account the look I was talking about.

I'm really not one of those who cries about "all drugs" putting down all boddybuilders all the time.
I actually think bodybuilders should take pride in how dedicated they are with their drug intake, just as they would be with their diet or training regimen. I don't look down on drugs or drug users.
I look down on people who are ashamed of doing drugs. If you really feel ashamed of it, then get the fuck off them and have some pride.
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« Reply #205 on: October 14, 2012, 01:52:55 PM »

  Will H. and Kai G. have super gay posing.
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #206 on: October 14, 2012, 01:54:20 PM »

But then again, what do I know. I have only spent my entire adult life getting people inshape for shows, attending show, competing myself, or speaking with people at the highest levels of the sport of bodybuilding.

Then you know the pathological psychology of most bodybuilders.

Even if I were to acknowledge that John in particular could be natural, you and I both know that the large majority of the so-called natural bodybuilders are anything but. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me you believe all the naturals that have come through Getbig like Moody, Faildo, etc, are lifetime natural as they claim.
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« Reply #207 on: October 14, 2012, 01:56:54 PM »



Will Brink looks like the lead singer to Judas Priest and probably swings the same way.
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« Reply #208 on: October 14, 2012, 01:57:52 PM »

John Hansen is natural. Why is it so hard to believe that with 30 years of dedication someone can attain an 185lbs stage ready physique. You guys will say that anyone who looks better than you is on juice.

I'm on juice. John Hansen is not.

TJ welcome back to GB

you must be pretty lonely there in FL to post here where you know you are loved. I understand, a cry for help .Your (boy)friend and provider -erin singerman- left you behind while traveling to europe

poor lonely TJ

cheer up, look at your favorite subject



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« Reply #209 on: October 14, 2012, 02:31:04 PM »

There are some natural trainees, I know quite a few of them. But when someones whole identity is built around looking muscular things change. This is without even taking into account the look I was talking about.

I'm really not one of those who cries about "all drugs" putting down all boddybuilders all the time.
I actually think bodybuilders should take pride in how dedicated they are with their drug intake, just as they would be with their diet or training regimen. I don't look down on drugs or drug users.
I look down on people who are ashamed of doing drugs. If you really feel ashamed of it, then get the fuck off them and have some pride.

Then, I apologize for lumping you into the "all drugs" criers.

Hansen claims he stopped using roids in 1990 and hasn't taken them, since then.

Moody claimed he's natural for life? I must have missed that one.
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #210 on: October 14, 2012, 02:46:28 PM »



Moody claimed he's natural for life? I must have missed that one.

Sure did. And as far as the gyno you said could be from natural causes, well, it's rare some
lean bodybuilder develops it in his 30's. He never actually acknowledged the surgery, I saw the faint outlines of scars in pics and when I mentioned it I got a PM from someone who said his gyno surgeon showed him before and afters of Moody's surgery results. Gyno was just one sign.
Moody is a guy who claims to put on 20lbs of muscle during each prep, going from 175-185 to 195-205 on stage. It doesn't quite work like that in naturals.

But for me all that info is not really needed, it's all in the look.
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« Reply #211 on: October 14, 2012, 03:32:28 PM »

That settles it. Anyone who's bigger, stronger, or faster than their precedessors from FOUR OR FIVE DECADES ago must be taking anabolics by the truckload.  Roll Eyes

Bwaaahhhaaahhahaa, aren't you the guy that gleefully runs to GNC every week pulling his dick in anticipation that you might run into some Muscletech or NO supplement on the discount table?

Tell me what has changed in the past 4-6 decades that could make a man leaner, bigger, and probably stronger than the legitimate freaks of of yesteryear at 20 - 25 years their senior? What marvel of short span human evolution?

Training - No. They were training the same as every other pro past or present.

Rest - Noski. Most of those guys lived the easy going life, same as they do now.

Food - Nope. Those fellas were packing away the calories and dieting down same as always.

Supplements - Ok, for all the Snake oil on the shelves, I'll spot you 5- 10 pounds more muscle in a young, modern man, but wait, I'll subtract the same for him being 20 - 25 year older than those guys were in their prime. Oops, back to square one.

What could it be ? Wait let me get my crystal ball, I will conjure up a man who might know the answer?

Sim -sim -sala -bim, I've got him on the line -

.

Oops just asked Ziegler, He told me "Don't be stupid, ya moron. You know know the answer", then he hung up.

And he's right, if you're smart you know the answer. Even if you don't want to offend people by mentioning it.



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« Reply #212 on: October 14, 2012, 03:40:16 PM »

   PED
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jude2
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« Reply #213 on: October 14, 2012, 03:40:29 PM »

Van B has been around long enough to know.
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Kwon_2
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« Reply #214 on: October 14, 2012, 03:48:56 PM »

Apparently, you didn't see Ronnie Coleman's 1994 Olympia presentation.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxwrKt8UvBQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxwrKt8UvBQ</a>

Hey, it beats doing 200 most-musculars to Satan-worshipping metal.

 Grin

What the hell is that shimmy he is doing at 00:22? LOL
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« Reply #215 on: October 14, 2012, 04:10:43 PM »

John Hansen is natural. Why is it so hard to believe that with 30 years of dedication someone can attain an 185lbs stage ready physique. You guys will say that anyone who looks better than you is on juice.

I'm on juice. John Hansen is not.

Give me a break. I've been there and back and seen it all. I can take anyone and have them pass any test, hell I've done it. Most of these guys have had gyno surgery and try to hide it. Hell it's more than the scars it's also the unevenness that the surgery leaves behind. I remember talking to Mike Ashley at an after party years ago. He was talking about how he had done a college paper on steroids. The guy knew a lot about steroids and you gotta wonder why would he be so knowledgeable about something that he never used. LOL Fuck I get so sick of hearing these guys lie to kids making them believe that all they have to do is lift hard eat a ton  Roll Eyes and they will get big.
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« Reply #216 on: October 14, 2012, 04:16:58 PM »

Give me a break. I've been there and back and seen it all. I can take anyone and have them pass any test, hell I've done it. Most of these guys have had gyno surgery and try to hide it. Hell it's more than the scars it's also the unevenness that the surgery leaves behind. I remember talking to Mike Ashley at an after party years ago. He was talking about how he had done a college paper on steroids. The guy knew a lot about steroids and you gotta wonder why would he be so knowledgeable about something that he never used. LOL Fuck I get so sick of hearing these guys lie to kids making them believe that all they have to do is lift hard eat a ton  Roll Eyes and they will get big.

TJ is a scumbag. his word is worth absolutely nothing. he is here defending gay hansen cause his suggar daddy erin singerman has dealings with the man. so just ignore anything he says
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« Reply #217 on: October 14, 2012, 04:22:38 PM »

TJ is a scumbag. his word is worth absolutely nothing. he is here defending gay hansen cause his suggar daddy erin singerman has dealings with the man. so just ignore anything he says

Woops yeah I didn't put the two together thanks. I used to train a natural powerlifter 20 years ago who still holds a record in one of the lifts that would take Dbol up to the day of the show. Like I said it's easy.
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« Reply #218 on: October 14, 2012, 04:44:19 PM »

Because it doesn't work like that, 185 is not his peak muscular weight after 30 years of training. You don't put on muscle slowly at an even rate. John is just maintaining, trying to hold on to muscle he used to have. Even druggies experience this after a certain age, when you have to throw everything at it just to maintain (and ultimately fail).

If bodyweight and years training were the determining factor in whether someone is on drugs then Gaspari and Labrada would be natural today, but they are not. But by your logic they could easily claim this, and I'm sure they would.

John has had a drugged look, to different degrees, in many of his competitive years (after 1991 when he says he got off permanently).



That should be the end of this thread .

WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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« Reply #219 on: October 14, 2012, 07:18:58 PM »

Bwaaahhhaaahhahaa, aren't you the guy that gleefully runs to GNC every week pulling his dick in anticipation that you might run into some Muscletech or NO supplement on the discount table?

Tell me what has changed in the past 4-6 decades that could make a man leaner, bigger, and probably stronger than the legitimate freaks of of yesteryear at 20 - 25 years their senior? What marvel of short span human evolution?

Training - No. They were training the same as every other pro past or present.

Rest - Noski. Most of those guys lived the easy going life, same as they do now.

Food - Nope. Those fellas were packing away the calories and dieting down same as always.

Supplements - Ok, for all the Snake oil on the shelves, I'll spot you 5- 10 pounds more muscle in a young, modern man, but wait, I'll subtract the same for him being 20 - 25 year older than those guys were in their prime. Oops, back to square one.

What could it be ? Wait let me get my crystal ball, I will conjure up a man who might know the answer?

Sim -sim -sala -bim, I've got him on the line -

.

Oops just asked Ziegler, He told me "Don't be stupid, ya moron. You know know the answer", then he hung up.

And he's right, if you're smart you know the answer. Even if you don't want to offend people by mentioning it.





One, who said Hansen was "bigger or stronger"? He competes slightly over or under 200 lbs. By bodybuilding standards, he's hardly a monster.

Two, if you think people train today the way they did 40 to 60 years ago, you're the one who needs drug testing (and it ain't for anabolics).

Three, their diets were the same? PLEASE!! Bodybuilders of yesteryear (as in the 60s and early 70s) didn't so nearly as much cardio as bodybuilders do today. In fact, for the handful who got super-ripped, some were actually penalized for that.

Four, training-wise, many of those old-timers trained with the three-days-a-week routines for years on end. Now, those routines are recommended for beginners. I did that for my first 9 months of training, about 23 years ago.

If you want to be one of those crybabies who think he can't tie his shoe, without a syringe handy, knock yourself out.

And while, NO! I don't go around holding my junk (perhaps, you're projecting here), I am known as "Mr. Clearance Sale" on a couple of boards. Why not? A good deal of these supplements are good and, if you can get them dirt cheap, why not try them?

Oh, let me guess!! You're one of those rebels-without-a-cause/clue, who think there are evil supplement companies, hiding in the shadows, thinking of ways to take your pennies, shaking your fist with tuna can in the air in defiance.
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« Reply #220 on: October 14, 2012, 08:19:01 PM »

What are the drug testing procedures like at these "natural" bodybuilding competitions?

Also there is no drug test that will confirm someone is one year clean or 5 or 7 or lifetime.  Even if every single competitor is given state-of-the-art tests for gh, a variety of steroids, masking agents, diuretics, etc., all "natural" means is that they stop using drugs long enough before the test to beat it.
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« Reply #221 on: October 14, 2012, 08:28:36 PM »

What are the drug testing procedures like at these "natural" bodybuilding competitions?

Also there is no drug test that will confirm someone is one year clean or 5 or 7 or lifetime.  Even if every single competitor is given state-of-the-art tests for gh, a variety of steroids, masking agents, diuretics, etc., all "natural" means is that they stop using drugs long enough before the test to beat it.
Every competitor at my last show had to take a lie detector test the night before. Winners got piss tested. Don't really know how reputable those are but the organization at least puts forth the effort to keep it fair and legit. Anyone willing to go to the lengths of cheating the system is scum and a schmuck for cheating to beat a bunch of scrawny natty Bodybuilders.

I think it's a reasonable approach. Im not sure what else they could do???
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« Reply #222 on: October 14, 2012, 08:32:47 PM »

author=MCWAY link=topic=443425.msg6366469#msg6366469 date=1350267538]
One, who said Hansen was "bigger or stronger"? He competes slightly over or under 200 lbs. By bodybuilding standards, he's hardly a monster.

He did just this year. For most he was well over #200 at 5' 8". At 40 plus years old. And much leaner than the much younger champions of the 40's, 50's.

Two, if you think people train today the way they did 40 to 60 years ago, you're the one who needs drug testing (and it ain't for anabolics).

Bullshit. Look at the the mags from the late 40's - 60's. Go read through the archives at http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/ or similar, they had low volume, high volume. High load, low load. 2x a day splits, etc.....

And even if you were to argue that Hansen, etc..... are using higher volumes, etc..... it works against your theory because Naturals usually get over trained on ultra high volume.


Three, their diets were the same? PLEASE!! Bodybuilders of yesteryear (as in the 60s and early 70s) didn't so nearly as much cardio as bodybuilders do today. In fact, for the handful who got super-ripped, some were actually penalized for that.

Diet is the same. Protein, Carbs, Fat. You can find multiple meal plans, ketogenic meal plans, etc.... in the old magazines.

And here is where you really fuck up.  The natural freaks of the 40's, 50's were relatively much fatter than Hansen, etc...... But Hansen, etc...... are older, bigger, and leaner without help? And on top of that doing cardio? When did doing cardio make you bigger? What type of dark wizardry is afoot here?

Everyone knows that cardio makes naturals much smaller. It's the first thing any natural gripes about when dieting. But these guys are getting bigger and leaner than any other naturals before them by doing it?

Four, training-wise, many of those old-timers trained with the three-days-a-week routines for years on end. Now, those routines are recommended for beginners. I did that for my first 9 months of training, about 23 years ago.

No, again, actually look at the old source materials, they did all types of training. Infact here is an old medical study based on old bodybuilders that shows a bunch of training schemes - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2080112/pdf/brmedj03625-0025.pdf .


If you want to be one of those crybabies who think he can't tie his shoe, without a syringe handy, knock yourself out.

And while, NO! I don't go around holding my junk (perhaps, you're projecting here), I am known as "Mr. Clearance Sale" on a couple of boards. Why not? A good deal of these supplements are good and, if you can get them dirt cheap, why not try them?

Oh, let me guess!! You're one of those rebels-without-a-cause/clue, who think there are evil supplement companies, hiding in the shadows, thinking of ways to take your pennies, shaking your fist with tuna can in the air in defiance.


No, I'm just smart enough to understand that all physical endeavors suffer after a certain a point/age. It happens in most physical hobbies.

And that remark about clearance sales,  GNC, etc...... was a shot mean to show how you are one of these nimrods attached to the notion that some pie in the sky supplement will make you better than superior lifters, half your age from 50 years ago instead of understanding that for the most part everyone ages, and that most(even the elite) do not get better with age after a point unless they hop on the spike.

P.S. You might want to check out HMB on your next GNC visit, I hear it feels like Deca.
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« Reply #223 on: October 14, 2012, 10:02:02 PM »

there needs to be LIFETIME NATURAL BB comps

and let getbiggers decide who is lifetime natural and who is not

there are no tests that can detect whether someone is lifetime natural

the only way is by the look

NATURAL BB IS A FILT LIE
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« Reply #224 on: October 14, 2012, 10:02:46 PM »

author=MCWAY link=topic=443425.msg6366469#msg6366469 date=1350267538]
One, who said Hansen was "bigger or stronger"? He competes slightly over or under 200 lbs. By bodybuilding standards, he's hardly a monster.

He did just this year. For most he was well over #200 at 5' 8". At 40 plus years old. And much leaner than the much younger champions of the 40's, 50's.

There are kids in HIGH SCHOOL, who are leaner than guys in the 40s and 50s. These are men that did next to no cardio and didn't diet to get ripped at all.


Two, if you think people train today the way they did 40 to 60 years ago, you're the one who needs drug testing (and it ain't for anabolics).

Bullshit. Look at the the mags from the late 40's - 60's. Go read through the archives at http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/ or similar, they had low volume, high volume. High load, low load. 2x a day splits, etc.....

And even if you were to argue that Hansen, etc..... are using higher volumes, etc..... it works against your theory because Naturals usually get over trained on ultra high volume.

Listen to what you just said. The old timers, many of them you assume were natural did high volume. Yet, high volume works against naturals of today? Make up your mind here. Volume is something you build up over time. And, if your diet and rest are sufficient, you can recover and grow from high-volume workouts, drugs or no drugs.


Three, their diets were the same? PLEASE!! Bodybuilders of yesteryear (as in the 60s and early 70s) didn't so nearly as much cardio as bodybuilders do today. In fact, for the handful who got super-ripped, some were actually penalized for that.

Diet is the same. Protein, Carbs, Fat. You can find multiple meal plans, ketogenic meal plans, etc.... in the old magazines.

Hardly. Most of these guys simply cut out the starches a few weeks out, which is really all the ketogenic diet is.


And here is where you really fuck up.  The natural freaks of the 40's, 50's were relatively much fatter than Hansen, etc...... But Hansen, etc...... are older, bigger, and leaner without help? And on top of that doing cardio? When did doing cardio make you bigger? What type of dark wizardry is afoot here?

Everyone knows that cardio makes naturals much smaller. It's the first thing any natural gripes about when dieting. But these guys are getting bigger and leaner than any other naturals before them by doing it?

Cardio does no such thing. The only thing that makes naturals (or not-so-naturals) smaller is EATING TOO LITTLE FOOD. Old-school bodybuilders hardly diet for 4 months at a time. And they certainly didn't have the nutritional supplements that are so common today to go along with their diets.


Four, training-wise, many of those old-timers trained with the three-days-a-week routines for years on end. Now, those routines are recommended for beginners. I did that for my first 9 months of training, about 23 years ago.

No, again, actually look at the old source materials, they did all types of training. Infact here is an old medical study based on old bodybuilders that shows a bunch of training schemes - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2080112/pdf/brmedj03625-0025.pdf .

The training scheme compares weightlifters with bodybuilders. In fact, one of the paragraphs even states, Weight-lifters seldom start a work-out with as
many as ten repetitions; eight is usually the maximum, and
a proportion of lifters seldom exceed six repetitions. Generally,
weight-lifters tend to exercise more often than bodybuilders.
Five days a week is not uncommon, and more
rarely six or even seven. The body-builders believe that
alternate days of rest are essential for the anabolism of new
muscle tissue, whereas a weight-lifter can go on increasing
in strength without concomitant increase in bulk.


If the weightlifters are exercising five times a week, then how often are the bodybuilders training? Sounds to me like the typical THREE-TIMES-PER-WEEK training from back in the day.



If you want to be one of those crybabies who think he can't tie his shoe, without a syringe handy, knock yourself out.

And while, NO! I don't go around holding my junk (perhaps, you're projecting here), I am known as "Mr. Clearance Sale" on a couple of boards. Why not? A good deal of these supplements are good and, if you can get them dirt cheap, why not try them?

Oh, let me guess!! You're one of those rebels-without-a-cause/clue, who think there are evil supplement companies, hiding in the shadows, thinking of ways to take your pennies, shaking your fist with tuna can in the air in defiance.


No, I'm just smart enough to understand that all physical endeavors suffer after a certain a point/age. It happens in most physical hobbies.

And that remark about clearance sales,  GNC, etc...... was a shot mean to show how you are one of these nimrods attached to the notion that some pie in the sky supplement will make you better than superior lifters, half your age from 50 years ago instead of understanding that for the most part everyone ages, and that most(even the elite) do not get better with age after a point unless they hop on the spike.

P.S. You might want to check out HMB on your next GNC visit, I hear it feels like Deca.

Wrong again! I see supplements for what their are: SUPPLEMENTS to a sound diet. The only nimrod on here is folks like you, who apparently can't lift the toilet seat to go the bathroom, without a stack of Deca or Winstrol.

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