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Author Topic: muscle pump  (Read 1501 times)
Donny
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« on: October 22, 2012, 12:03:50 PM »

Today in my chest/back workout i really got a very intense pump in my chest. I superseted parallel bar dips with push ups on the floor ( using push up bars). Muscle pump for a lot of people is an indication of growth and others disagree. Vince Gironda said work to the pump then not more...what is the general opinion on this?
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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 12:43:39 PM »

according to AJ muscle pump can be indicative of muscle growth

for example, he said that his arms would usually pump up a half inch or so from a training session, but there were times when his arms pumped up 3/4 of an inch and that was a good indication that muscle growth would occur from that workout
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 06:29:16 PM »

sounds like a good superset to me...

do you alternate with barbell or dumbbell presses?
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 01:23:57 AM »

this superset only works for me with parallel bar dips and push-ups. parallel bar dips i lean slightly forward but not too much, i find my comfortable position. The angle and training effect for Dips is diffrent than a pushing movement like benches. If i was going to replace push-ups i would do Dumbbell press. I find after max Dips i can get about 12-15 push-ups in. which is hard for me after max Dips. I concentrate on what i am doing. concentration is the key... Wink I love supersets and even if i do not do them and Bench max weight i jump rope in between sets...i like to work at a fast pace. This is maybe why i get a great pump. My body is always moving, this then is the key to a pump and muscle growth.
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 09:25:08 AM »

Quad sets seem to produce some very good results.  Can have them done with alternating a muscle group (original concept of the SS) or the same body part.

(Arnold & Columbo were well recorded doing SS's with the bench and BB row, usually had a third guy work in with them, for many sets. and little rest.)

Quad sets for the arm, SS's:

1)   Tricep press down (any way you wish)
2)   BB curl
3)   Skull Crushers
4)   Incline DB curls

No rest between exercises.  Usually 60 to 90 seconds rest between each Quad set.

Quad sets..biceps for example......actually a mini giant set.

1)  BB curl  (EZ bar if you wish)
2)  Reverse BB curl  (a very underestimated exercise...EZ bar if you wish))
3)  Incline DB curl
4)  Preacher curl   (BB or DB)

Superior pump would be running the rack.  Most do it for the biceps, but can also be done for the triceps (overhead extensions) and the delts  (DB presses). Seen most guy's start with the lightest DB, for one rep only, than grab the next heavier DB, all the way up the rack until another rep is impossible. Than come all the way back down to the original DB (usually 10 lbs) for each 1 rep. And of course, no rest between each rep. One cycle and try to work through the burn.....crazy pump. Good Luck.
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Donny
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 09:37:55 AM »

Larry scott loved running the rack with lateral raises .
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 11:34:30 AM »

Might also suggest the Sissy Squat, named so because it can make sissy's out of many of the best heavy squatters.  Super stretch and pump.

 Might want to check out how to do it the most effective way, by doing a search. Do not use any weight on this one, at first. Learn how to do it correctly. Good luck.
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 11:38:33 AM »

Sissy squats rising on your toes and leaning back...knee pains waiting to happen.
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 11:51:27 AM »

I LOVE DIPS WITH FLYES OR CABLE CROSSOVERS WITH DIPS,,,I LIKE HEAVY FLYE THEN WITH SAME DUMBELL CRANK OUT SOME PRESSES WITH SAME WEIGHT AND THEN SOME EXTRA CHEAT FLYES IF POSSIBLE AT THE END.
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 12:00:46 PM »

 
I LOVE DIPS WITH FLYES OR CABLE CROSSOVERS WITH DIPS,,,I LIKE HEAVY FLYE THEN WITH SAME DUMBELL CRANK OUT SOME PRESSES WITH SAME WEIGHT AND THEN SOME EXTRA CHEAT FLYES IF POSSIBLE AT THE END.
Grin
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 08:08:05 AM »

Actually Sissy Squats (and forms of) can, and have, been used by all types of athletes to strengthen the whole knee structure. Plus the advantage of the exceptional  stretch you can receive. Most notable are track and Tri athletes. Both will also include some serious squats in some of their workouts.  Ben Johnson (former Olympic sprinter..who got banned for drug abuse) was reported to work well into the 400lbs range in squatting.

Some will use , for extra weight, a DB/plate(s) held at the chest area or two DB's held down by the sides. Though a weight is not always required. Probably best preformed with the heels on a block, etc, rather than balancing on the toes for most BB'ers. The more athletic types usually use the free form, on toes method.

Reason why the heels raised type of leg work for some BB'ers is because the focus is away from the butt (onto the quads) and some just don't want to build up the butt area too much.  Good Luck
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 08:47:53 AM »

Sissy squats are very rarly used now and for good reason. The sissy squat was really made famous from Vince Gironda but it is a knee wrecker. This is the same as the "old school" raising your heels to hit the quads better. Raising your heels brings your joints out of their natural alignment and will produce negative stress on the ligaments and tendons of the knee, the soft structures such as your cartilage will suffer. End result..knee chondromalacia patella.
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2012, 09:55:25 AM »

If you look at most any leg exercise from the sides, where the heels are raised, you might find a better alinement of the lower back/hip structure. And certainly a better foundation for balance and in return a better functioning of the knees. One of the reasons that Olympic lifter were raised footwear. Understanding the structure of the ankle may also help to explain this.

Even when doing standing BB curls,lateral raises, etc with raised heels, these movement appear better balanced.  Try it for yourself to find the difference.

Sissy squat are still around (personal view:think the name scares some men away from them, who have never tried them...BB'ers usually have very fragile ego's to begin with. ...sometime go by the quad stretchers and similar type names).  See no great correlation between Sissy squats and drastic damage to the knee structure. And with the heels raise, even less potential of severe harm.

As said before, very many athletes do Sissy squats and forms of. Some even as a rehab form of training. Good Luck.
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2012, 10:27:01 AM »

No one Deadlifts with raised Heels and for good reason. Barbell Hacks are good but your reasons for a Raised heel are as old as the Hills. Anyone i knew who did sissy squats over a period received knee pains and cartilage damage. Any type of squat is better performed with a flat heel. THINK ABOUT THE POSITION OF YOUR KNEE JOINT IF YOU SQUAT WITH A RAISED HEEL: you are NOT in your joints natural alignment... therefore the stress is negative for your knee. The knee is not a structure built to take heavy loads at an unnatural angle.
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2012, 10:55:42 AM »

Today in my chest/back workout i really got a very intense pump in my chest. I superseted parallel bar dips with push ups on the floor ( using push up bars). Muscle pump for a lot of people is an indication of growth and others disagree. Vince Gironda said work to the pump then not more...what is the general opinion on this?
A good supplement to your chest super set is this back super set. Do chins and body weight back rows.

Using a smith machine bar or a bar set in a rack for your rows. Put your feet/heels on a bench and lie on the floor facing the ceiling. Grab the bar and pull your body up till it touches your chest. Make sure the bar isn't set to high. You want to be more horizontal than inclined.
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2012, 11:04:08 AM »

no study has said weight lifting shoes give you any advantage JPM..and thank you for the tips Oldtimer
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2012, 06:58:58 AM »

Sissy squats are very rarly used now and for good reason. The sissy squat was really made famous from Vince Gironda but it is a knee wrecker. This is the same as the "old school" raising your heels to hit the quads better. Raising your heels brings your joints out of their natural alignment and will produce negative stress on the ligaments and tendons of the knee, the soft structures such as your cartilage will suffer. End result..knee chondromalacia patella.

no study has said weight lifting shoes give you any advantage JPM..and thank you for the tips Oldtimer


Are there studies that prove the shoes carry risks?
I have a hard time believing that so many current Olympic athletes would use a particular piece of equipment if there was no benefit, and especially if that accessory carried a risk.

I'm not attacking your posts; I am just curious about the source(s) of your claim.
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Donny
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2012, 07:15:55 AM »

it's actually well known that raising the heel is damaging for the knee since about 20 years. I have heard this from advanced trainers over the years and feel it on my own knees. there have been several studies done on this subject and  i am sure in the internet and easy to find. How many Bodybuilders do you see raising the heel in the Gym nowadays? not many, if any and i always have seen Bodybuilders deadlifting flat footed. This thread is about "muscle pump" and not JPM and his Powerlifting ideas. Well i stand by my opinion and my experience and observations in training.
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Donny
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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2012, 07:36:07 AM »

a good link which looks at all sides of the story...make up your own mind.
http://www.exrx.net/Kinesiology/Squats.html
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« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2012, 09:32:24 AM »

most of my set have little rest i go and guy i train with goes and so on,,,but i do tri superset sometimes 3 exercises 10 rep 3x around .monster set,trisets,run the rack,superset's,drop sets all are great for short workout due to time or switch it up.
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« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2012, 10:07:24 AM »

Larry Scott claims that the most and best growth he ever got on his bi's was from the the tri-sets he performed on the preacher bench, and the best shoulder growth he got came from running the rack on presses and lateral raises.

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« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2012, 07:07:56 AM »

Larry Scott claims that the most and best growth he ever got on his bi's was from the the tri-sets he performed on the preacher bench, and the best shoulder growth he got came from running the rack on presses and lateral raises.


Yes Tri-sets and Giant sets are very advanced. You can hit a muscle(s) from every side and really bombs it.
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2012, 01:54:11 PM »

Today in my chest/back workout i really got a very intense pump in my chest. I superseted parallel bar dips with push ups on the floor ( using push up bars). Muscle pump for a lot of people is an indication of growth and others disagree. Vince Gironda said work to the pump then not more...what is the general opinion on this?
donny have you ever entered the alpha zone that's when the body doesn't feel the weight and you can do more than you ever done and not realize it? it's equivallant to the runner's high some runners experience. it's pretty rare.
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2012, 02:56:43 AM »

donny have you ever entered the alpha zone that's when the body doesn't feel the weight and you can do more than you ever done and not realize it? it's equivallant to the runner's high some runners experience. it's pretty rare.
I have felt this with running but with weights, not sure but maybe it did happen who knows and i never knew about it. you could well be on to something Funk. very interesting point and making me think...will look into it.
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2012, 10:49:16 AM »

I have felt this with running but with weights, not sure but maybe it did happen who knows and i never knew about it. you could well be on to something Funk. very interesting point and making me think...will look into it.
sometimes doing squats people have experienced it, it's pretty rare i did it once with high incline 75 degree db presses was useing 105's  usually got between 8-12 reps felt somewhat light headed and just continued to do reps past 12 not sure how many i got. it was almost like a spiritual thing. sometimes when you get mad you can experience something similar from an adrenline rush.
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