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Author Topic: Obama starts 2nd term w 1.6 Trillion Tax Hike proposal.  (Read 2350 times)
GigantorX
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« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2012, 09:44:16 AM »

some things do in fact get cut but I also agree that they often cut the growth of spending nad call it a cut, which in a sense it is

all that really matters is that through a combinantion of revenue increase and spending decrease that we are able to reduce the annual deficit and start paying down the debt and that we do it in a way that doesn't harm the economy.    I believe that those goals are possible and certainly more so with Obama as POTUS which is what the voters seem to have thought as wel

The Repubs agreed to teh "fiscal cliff" scneario thinking they were going win back the White House and then not have to deal with it.  

They fucked up and now they are in a panick because although they claim to love spending cuts it's only spending cuts that effect the lower and middle classes that they really love.  

I agree that blind austerity will get us nowhere as increased revenues should, in dream world, come from increased growth. If it just comes from taxes then you are essentially drinking your own blood to sate your thirst. What really is needed is actual tax reform and spending/budgetary reform. Simply raising taxes and increasing revenue won't come anywhere close to solving the problem.  We won't get that, not even close. The problem will be left unsolved. Voters voted for problem solving, not just raising taxes. Let us not forget that.

CBO projects the national budget to be around 5 trillion by 2020 or so with revenues not being much more than they are now.

There are severe structural problems that are at the root of our decline, whatever bread and circus/class warfare that is going on right now won't solve those.
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« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2012, 09:44:43 AM »

just because your personal economy is DOA does not mean the rest of the country is

you should travel out of the ghetto occasionally and see how the non-whiners are doing

GDP is 1.3% and you call that good? 
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« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2012, 09:45:15 AM »

Dems don't really control the Senate wihout 60 votes (hopefully they change the rules next year) and my hope (go ahead and laugh) is the Dems, Repubs and the POTUS will finally work together on something



I doubt the Dems do that, because the instant they lose control of the Senate, they'll be wailing for the days of the filibuster.
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« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2012, 09:47:45 AM »

According to this document, letting the Bush cuts expire, and not extending, causes a married couple filing jointly whose income is between 222.3 and 397k to go from 33% to 36%.  That is what I was referring to.  

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42485.pdf

Maybe we are discussing something different, or am I missing context by not reading the entire thing?


that's not what you wrote in your post and even an increase of 3% on income btw 222 and 397k (175k) is only $5250

you think that a couple earning 397k are going to change their life in anyway because of a tax increase of $5250
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« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2012, 09:49:03 AM »

I doubt the Dems do that, because the instant they lose control of the Senate, they'll be wailing for the days of the filibuster.

it's not the Dems you have to worry about it's the Repubs who can't deal with the fact that we had an election and the voters rejected their ideas and now that politics is over it's time to govern and they need to compromise

Repubs have never really liked the governing part
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« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2012, 09:50:25 AM »

I doubt the Dems do that, because the instant they lose control of the Senate, they'll be wailing for the days of the filibuster.


Repubs hold the record for filibusters as the party of NO they shot down 51 jobs bills.  Mostly because they are racist it seems.
Ill never forget Mitch Mconnell get on T.V. right after Obama was elected and saying  "Our number one objective is to make obama a one term president.  And this was in the middle of our crisis!  Same as saying F#ck u American citizens. Undecided
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« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2012, 09:54:58 AM »


Repubs hold the record for filibusters as the party of NO they shot down 51 jobs bills.  Mostly because they are racist it seems.
Ill never forget Mitch Mconnell get on T.V. right after Obama was elected and saying  "Our number one objective is to make obama a one term president.  And this was in the middle of our crisis!  Same as saying F#ck u American citizens. Undecided

And, prior to that the Dems had the record. When they become the minority party again, they'll break the GOP's record.

The minority party is always the party of NO. You act as if the Dems were all friendly and singing "Kum Bah Yah" when Bush was in office (Remember all that "President-Select" crap we heard for four years from Dems, after the 2000 election?).

I'll never forget Obama saying that unemployment would never exceed 8% under his stimulus.

Or, that nobody making under 250K would see their taxes go up "one dime".

Or, ObamaCare would lower premiums.

But, it seems you weren't all that concerned about that. But, Mitch McConnell's statement about Obama's being a one-term president is far more important. When this economy tanks further, you're going to wish McConnell were right.
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« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2012, 09:58:57 AM »

GDP is 1.3% and you call that good? 

ok, I'm gonna guess you saw 1.3% somewhere and got confused because you obviously dont' even know what that refers to

The % change in GDP in 2Q12 was 1.3%

Here's the actual data but just scroll to the chart on page 6 and while you're looking at 2Q12 be sure to look to the left at the prior quarters and maybe you'll notice 4Q2008 at a  MINUS 8.9%

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2012/pdf/gdp3q12_adv.pdf
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« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2012, 10:00:42 AM »

it's not the Dems you have to worry about it's the Repubs who can't deal with the fact that we had an election and the voters rejected their ideas and now that politics is over it's time to govern and they need to compromise

Repubs have never really liked the governing part


PLEASE!!! Where's all this "compromise" when the voters reject the Democrats' ideas? The politics part is never over in Washington, regardless of who wins or loses.

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« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2012, 10:04:46 AM »

PLEASE!!! Where's all this "compromise" when the voters reject the Democrats' ideas? The politics part is never over in Washington, regardless of who wins or loses.

the election was just a week ago and Repubs basically put everything on hold a year ago

The time for compromise and negotion is right now and in the next few months and few years

Repubs will do themselves no favors by sticking to their same obstructionist ways but then I also don't really expect them to believe or understand this

The level of denial exhibited by them in the last week is an indication that they still have not woken up to reality
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« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2012, 10:11:06 AM »

the election was just a week ago and Repubs basically put everything on hold a year ago

The time for compromise and negotion is right now and in the next few months and few years

Repubs will do themselves no favors by sticking to their same obstructionist ways but then I also don't really expect them to believe or understand this

The level of denial exhibited by them in the last week is an indication that they still have not woken up to reality

The reality is that this should have been addressed long ago. But, as usual, it was put off at the last minute, until it hit crisis mode.

Of course, all of this is to save Obama, to keep him from breaking yet another campaign promise (not raising taxes on the middle class, again).

What did the Dems offer to cut, besides (of course) the military, which simply means more people losing their jobs and longer, more frequent deployments for those that remain.
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« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2012, 10:13:48 AM »

The reality is that this should have been addressed long ago. But, as usual, it was put off at the last minute, until it hit crisis mode.
Of course, all of this is to save Obama, to keep him from breaking yet another campaign promise (not raising taxes on the middle class, again).

What did the Dems offer to cut, besides (of course) the military, which simply means more people losing their jobs and longer, more frequent deployments for those that remain.


have you truly forgotten that Obama tried to address it and the Repubs played chicken with the economy until they finally compromised and created the so called fiscal cliff (again with Repubs bettting they would win back the White House and wouldn't have to deal with it)

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« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2012, 10:15:25 AM »

the election was just a week ago and Repubs basically put everything on hold a year ago

The time for compromise and negotion is right now and in the next few months and few years

Repubs will do themselves no favors by sticking to their same obstructionist ways but then I also don't really expect them to believe or understand this


The level of denial exhibited by them in the last week is an indication that they still have not woken up to reality

this

Time to get things done
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« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2012, 10:16:21 AM »

have you truly forgotten that Obama tried to address it and the Repubs played chicken with the economy until they finally compromised and created the so called fiscal cliff (again with Repubs bettting they would win back the White House and wouldn't have to deal with it)



Have YOU truly forgotten that Boehner tried to "compromise" with Obama (and got grilled for it by members of his own party), only to have Obama back out at the last minute?

How many times has he tried to reach out to the president, only for him to be MIA?

Raising taxes isn't going to put so much as a dent in the deficit. All it will do is have rich people move their money, fire people to cover the cost, and/or raise prices on goods and services.


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« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2012, 10:18:09 AM »

have you truly forgotten that Obama tried to address it and the Repubs played chicken with the economy until they finally compromised and created the so called fiscal cliff (again with Repubs bettting they would win back the White House and wouldn't have to deal with it)



Yes, I totally remember that. The King of Kings tried so desperately to save the nation and rescue us all from certain doom. He tried to save us by creating the non-partisan Simpson-Bowles commission and then completely dismissing it.

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« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2012, 10:19:34 AM »

Yes, I totally remember that. The King of Kings tried so desperately to save the nation and rescue us all from certain doom. He tried to save us by creating the non-partisan Simpson-Bowles commission and then completely dismissing it.



THANK YOU!! They told him exactly what needed to be done; it wasn't what Obama wanted to hear and he FLAT-OUT IGNORED THEIR ADVICE.
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« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2012, 10:21:05 AM »

And, prior to that the Dems had the record. When they become the minority party again, they'll break the GOP's record.

The minority party is always the party of NO. You act as if the Dems were all friendly and singing "Kum Bah Yah" when Bush was in office (Remember all that "President-Select" crap we heard for four years from Dems, after the 2000 election?).

I'll never forget Obama saying that unemployment would never exceed 8% under his stimulus.

Or, that nobody making under 250K would see their taxes go up "one dime".

Or, ObamaCare would lower premiums.

But, it seems you weren't all that concerned about that. But, Mitch McConnell's statement about Obama's being a one-term president is far more important. When this economy tanks further, you're going to wish McConnell were right.

No ones bought a policy yet rocket scientist. lol   Wait till the exchanges are set up and people will shop.   And My taxes havent went up...have your's??   Your weird.
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« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2012, 10:25:40 AM »

Have YOU truly forgotten that Boehner tried to "compromise" with Obama (and got grilled for it by members of his own party), only to have Obama back out at the last minute?

How many times has he tried to reach out to the president, only for him to be MIA?

Raising taxes isn't going to put so much as a dent in the deficit. All it will do is have rich people move their money, fire people to cover the cost, and/or raise prices on goods and services.




as usual you live in an alternate reality. Good luck trying to wreck the economy with your retarded economic principles.

The US is on the rise, watch and learn, just like the election you clowns are clueless. Guess that is what happens when you take information from people who admit to lying.
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« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2012, 10:29:00 AM »

No ones bought a policy yet rocket scientist. lol   Wait till the exchanges are set up and people will shop.   And My taxes havent went up...have your's??   Your weird.

People aren't going to shop; they're going to get dropped from their current plans by their employers to cut costs.

Premiums have already gone up, by over $2000 in many cases. And, if you're in the military and on Tricare (other than Prime, which is required by active duty folks) your costs will QUADRUPLE within a few years. Not to mention, in some states, they're taking retirees OFF Tricare Prime and forcing them to go on Standard, which costs them more money.

Employers are already prepping to reduce hours and drop employees' coverage, to make up the cost.
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« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2012, 10:31:24 AM »

as usual you live in an alternate reality. Good luck trying to wreck the economy with your retarded economic principles.

The US is on the rise, watch and learn, just like the election you clowns are clueless. Guess that is what happens when you take information from people who admit to lying.

And YOUR economic principles have improved the economy by..........

More people working? NOPE!

Less debt? NOPE!!!

Lower deficit? NOPE!!

Fewer government-dependent people? NOT EVEN CLOSE!!

And, it's only going to get worse. But that's what happens when you're retarded enough to think that businesses and rich people are just going to stand idly by and get bilked by the government.

When the government doesn't get enough revenue from the rich, GUESS WHO'S NEXT!!

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« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2012, 10:37:55 AM »

Yes, I totally remember that. The King of Kings tried so desperately to save the nation and rescue us all from certain doom. He tried to save us by creating the non-partisan Simpson-Bowles commission and then completely dismissing it.

Repubs walked out of the Simpson Bowles negoations (including Paul Ryan)

Obama has no power implement that on his own

I'd like to see them follow Simpson Bowles but that would mean Repubs would have to agree to things like taxing dividend and capital gains as ordinary income

you might recall that Ryans first budget wanted these two categories to enjoy a zero or near zero tax rate
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« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2012, 10:49:04 AM »

And YOUR economic principles have improved the economy by..........

More people working? NOPE!

Less debt? NOPE!!!

Lower deficit? NOPE!!

Fewer government-dependent people? NOT EVEN CLOSE!!

And, it's only going to get worse. But that's what happens when you're retarded enough to think that businesses and rich people are just going to stand idly by and get bilked by the government.

When the government doesn't get enough revenue from the rich, GUESS WHO'S NEXT!!



yes clinton had many of the principles that Obama has and Obama has seen debt reduction, job creation improve from a trend of job loss, important industries saved like the auto-industry.

Rich people incomes after taxes have tripled in the last twenty years, they have not been fleeced, it is the working class person getting fleeced. You supported Bush and let him run a booming economy to the ground and then some. You support a party who played obstructionist to a debt ceiling raise that was common under bush and caused a downgrade. The GOP got smacked this election and will continue to do so unless they change their tune and stop with the bullshit.

Where do you get your info? job creation has steadily increased from a job loss during bush's final years. You are lying.
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« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2012, 11:10:05 AM »

yes clinton had many of the principles that Obama has and Obama has seen debt reduction, job creation improve from a trend of job loss, important industries saved like the auto-industry.

Rich people incomes after taxes have tripled in the last twenty years, they have not been fleeced, it is the working class person getting fleeced. You supported Bush and let him run a booming economy to the ground and then some. You support a party who played obstructionist to a debt ceiling raise that was common under bush and caused a downgrade. The GOP got smacked this election and will continue to do so unless they change their tune and stop with the bullshit.

Where do you get your info? job creation has steadily increased from a job loss during bush's final years. You are lying.

he can't help himself he gets his news from hate radio,he even admits it.they made him look like a fool before the election and they're doing it now. he lets talk radio do his thinking for him  Grin
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« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2012, 11:18:22 AM »

yes clinton had many of the principles that Obama has and Obama has seen debt reduction, job creation improve from a trend of job loss, important industries saved like the auto-industry.

Clinton and Obama shouldn't even be used in the same sentence, when it comes to the economy. And lest you forget, Clinton tried some of the same stuff Obama did, until the Dems lost Congress in 1994. For six of Clinton's 8 years as president, he had the GOP running Congress.



Rich people incomes after taxes have tripled in the last twenty years, they have not been fleeced, it is the working class person getting fleeced. You supported Bush and let him run a booming economy to the ground and then some. You support a party who played obstructionist to a debt ceiling raise that was common under bush and caused a downgrade. The GOP got smacked this election and will continue to do so unless they change their tune and stop with the bullshit.

Where do you get your info? job creation has steadily increased from a job loss during bush's final years. You are lying.

When you lose more jobs than you create, that is a NET LOSS.

You don't get 8% unemployment for 44 of the last 46 months, with steadily increasing job creation. Even the press was reporting that the drop in unemployment was due (in no small measure) to people not looking for work. And it just so happens that the worst economic years of the Bush administration occurred when the DEMS ran Congress.

The downgrade happened ON OBAMA'S watch, not Bush's watch, and was the result of the Dems not cutting spending and the GOP not raising taxes. That is a fact.

We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the
prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related
fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the
growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an
agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and
will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal
consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week
falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the
general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.


http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

The debt was 10 trillion when Obama took office; it's 16 trillion NOW (and counting).

Unemployment was 7.6% when Obama took office. It's "7.9%" now, higher than when he first took office (per Obama, it was never to exceed 8% and would be down to be around 5.5% now).

32 million on food stamps when Obama took office; 48 million on food stamps NOW.

Where do you get YOUR information?

Higher unemployment than when he took office; more people on food stamps now than when he took office; more debt now than when he took office;

And a second term of Obama is going to fix this because.........

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« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2012, 11:49:19 AM »

Clinton and Obama shouldn't even be used in the same sentence, when it comes to the economy. And lest you forget, Clinton tried some of the same stuff Obama did, until the Dems lost Congress in 1994. For six of Clinton's 8 years as president, he had the GOP running Congress.


When you lose more jobs than you create, that is a NET LOSS.

You don't get 8% unemployment for 44 of the last 46 months, with steadily increasing job creation. Even the press was reporting that the drop in unemployment was due (in no small measure) to people not looking for work. And it just so happens that the worst economic years of the Bush administration occurred when the DEMS ran Congress.

The downgrade happened ON OBAMA'S watch, not Bush's watch, and was the result of the Dems not cutting spending and the GOP not raising taxes. That is a fact.

We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the
prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related
fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the
growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an
agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and
will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal
consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week
falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the
general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.


http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

The debt was 10 trillion when Obama took office; it's 16 trillion NOW (and counting).

Unemployment was 7.6% when Obama took office. It's "7.9%" now, higher than when he first took office (per Obama, it was never to exceed 8% and would be down to be around 5.5% now).

32 million on food stamps when Obama took office; 48 million on food stamps NOW.

Where do you get YOUR information?

Higher unemployment than when he took office; more people on food stamps now than when he took office; more debt now than when he took office;

And a second term of Obama is going to fix this because.........



you always find a way to give credit where it is not due. You have no credibility here, you were posting bullshit before the election that was proven dead wrong and then you continue with the same now.
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