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Author Topic: BCAA vs Glutamine  (Read 6219 times)
NoCalBbEr
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« on: November 30, 2005, 02:20:25 PM »

hey guys
 i was wondering what is the better amino acid to take. BCAA or Glutamine??

Thx
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Blake
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2005, 02:32:24 PM »

If you're going to spend extra money on specific amino acids, I'd opt for BCAA's.
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NoCalBbEr
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2005, 02:37:26 PM »

so are you saying that i dont really need to  buy either one??
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Jr. Yates
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2005, 03:12:28 PM »

Personally I'd rather have glutamine cuz it helps with muscle recovery but if you can afford both thats even better...with aminos (in tablet form) i found i got a really good pump cuz of the arginine but having both is really good.
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lapd21
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2005, 03:19:55 PM »

glutamine is the most important amino acid .... aids in muscle recovery, builds muscle, helps maintain and strenghten the immune system......... Shocked
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Blake
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2005, 03:19:58 PM »

so are you saying that i dont really need to  buy either one??

IMO, no.  A lot of protein powders already contain decent amounts of BCAA's and glutamine (for example ON 100% Whey). 

And, assuming you're already consuming a diet adequate in protein every day, supplementing with either glutamine or BCAA's will make very little difference, if it would be noticeable at all. 

I simply don't think it's worth the extra money you'd be spending.
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lapd21
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2005, 03:26:20 PM »

IMO, no.  A lot of protein powders already contain decent amounts of BCAA's and glutamine (for example ON 100% Whey). 

And, assuming you're already consuming a diet adequate in protein every day, supplementing with either glutamine or BCAA's will make very little difference, if it would be noticeable at all. 

I simply don't think it's worth the extra money you'd be spending.




trust me if  you work out you need glutamine.......any bb will tell you that......
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Blake
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2005, 03:33:45 PM »




trust me if  you work out you need glutamine.......any bb will tell you that......

So you're saying if you work out, you MUST supplement with glutamine??

You don't NEED any particular supplement.
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lapd21
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2005, 03:37:17 PM »

So you're saying if you work out, you MUST supplement with glutamine??

You don't NEED any particular supplement.



you dont need any supplement>HuhHuh? what!  when you work out you break down muscle right so you take it protein and other supplements to repair and grow right???  just like with glutamine, creatine, aminos, there all found inside your muscles right??? when you work out like i was saying you break down fibers in which in return you need to compensate for in supplementation....  your right  tho.. if you dont want to make any kind of "real gains" dont use anything.
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Blake
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2005, 03:46:16 PM »



you dont need any supplement>HuhHuh? what!  when you work out you break down muscle right so you take it protein and other supplements to repair and grow right???  just like with glutamine, creatine, aminos, there all found inside your muscles right??? when you work out like i was saying you break down fibers in which in return you need to compensate for in supplementation....  your right  tho.. if you dont want to make any kind of "real gains" dont use anything.

Were guys back in the 40's and 50's supplementing w/ a bunch of exotic shit?  I think not. 

It's a sad day when people think you MUST use supplements to make any gains.
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lapd21
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2005, 03:50:58 PM »

Were guys back in the 40's and 50's supplementing w/ a bunch of exotic shit?  I think not. 

It's a sad day when people think you MUST use supplements to make any gains.




dude i cant believe your serious....  you can make gains without taking shit.. but.. if you do take certain supplements you will make better gains..  your body is a dam science you do need certain things to make better gains.... i guarantee to you on my future childrens lives that if you take for example person #1 that doesnt take any kind of supplements other then food, up against person #2 that takes in the proper supplements glutamine/creatine/whatever else is going to grow and maintain muscle more then person #1......
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Blake
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2005, 03:57:40 PM »

dude i cant believe your serious....  you can make gains without taking shit.. but.. if you do take certain supplements you will make better gains..  your body is a dam science you do need certain things to make better gains.... i guarantee to you on my future childrens lives that if you take for example person #1 that doesnt take any kind of supplements other then food, up against person #2 that takes in the proper supplements glutamine/creatine/whatever else is going to grow and maintain muscle more then person #1......

Please provide specific studies from peer reviewed journals showing that glutamine is beneficial for muscle growth.  I will say that it is beneficial for digestive health and immune function.
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lapd21
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2005, 04:00:39 PM »

Please provide specific studies from peer reviewed journals showing that glutamine is beneficial for muscle growth.  I will say that it is beneficial for digestive health and immune function.



however, a recent study showed up to a 400% increase in growth-hormone levels when as little as 2 grams of free-form L-glutamine supplement was consumed!

Catabolism or muscle break down can occur if the body robs muscles of glutamine for use elsewhere such as nitrogen transport or maintaining the immune system. Glutamine supplementation is certainly important in keeping muscles building--not deteriorating


ps should i include more info for you?



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Blake
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2005, 04:02:50 PM »



however, a recent study showed up to a 400% increase in growth-hormone levels when as little as 2 grams of free-form L-glutamine supplement was consumed!

Catabolism or muscle break down can occur if the body robs muscles of glutamine for use elsewhere such as nitrogen transport or maintaining the immune system. Glutamine supplementation is certainly important in keeping muscles building--not deteriorating


ps should i include more info for you?


Sure, how about the exact source of that info.
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lapd21
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« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2005, 04:04:10 PM »

Sure, how about the exact source of that info.


bodybuilding.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/glutamine.html

dude give up dont try and win at this one
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lapd21
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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2005, 04:14:02 PM »

some mo for dat ass
 Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked  Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss


Stimulates muscle protein synthesis by donating nitrogen to build proteins.
Increases growth hormone which can induce positive body composition and mood changes (Note: A study done in 1995 by LSU College of Medicine showed that a surprisingly small oral dose of 2 grams of glutamine raised GH levels more than 4X over that of a placebo. Age did not diminish the response of the volunteers who ranged in age from 32 to 64 years.)
Decreases muscle catabolism during exercise
Increases endurance by replenishing glycogen under conditions of glycogen depletion
Decreases muscle recovery time
Decreases the chances of illness/infection by boosting your immune system
Prevents over-training from high loads and long duration activities (recall that blood glutamine levels are an excellent marker of anabolic status).
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Brutal_1
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2005, 04:15:39 PM »


Add my vote for BCAA's  Grin



 Tongue
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Blake
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2005, 04:17:57 PM »


bodybuilding.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/glutamine.html

dude give up dont try and win at this one


Gee, now that's a GREAT source of information!!  LOL   A website that sells, among other things, glutamine products.  Naw, they wouldn't be biased at ALL!!!!!   Roll Eyes

I ask you to provide specific scientific studies showing the muscle building effects of glutamine supplementation from peer reviewed journals.  And this is what you come up with?  A write up from some hack on bodybuilding.com?  That's not going to convince anyone who doesn't buy into the marketing hype of supplements.

Here's what Lyle McDonald (well known researcher and diet guru) has said about glutamine:

"a. There was that one study whree only 2 grams of glutamine raised GH; how relevant this is is hugely debatable. I seem to recall seeing it argued that small amounts of glutamine somehow avoided 'activating' GI uptake so it was possible to sneak some through that way. Or you could take monster dose and just get it through via mass action. Maybe if you wanna take a bottle per day or something.

b. Most of the anabolic glutamine work was in vitro. Put it into a cell and it increases protein synthesis. Two huge problems:

1. Most oral glutamine won't get there
2. There is a HUGE concentration gradient problem with the direction of flow being from inside the muscle cell out. I saw an infusion paper once showing that even infused glutamine couldn't raise intracellular concentrations of glutamine in muscle. No way is oral glutamine going to do it.

About the only way that oral glutamine might impact on muscular glutamine stores would be super indirectly. More or less we have a system of

gut <-> liver <-> blood stream <- skeletal muscle

in terms of how glutamine can flow (and the gut to bloodstream path is limited).

But consider a situation where the gut is using a lot of glutamine for some reason.

IF (and this is a big if) you weren't getting enough in the diet, you might end up seeing a drop in skeletal muscle glutamine stores because it's being pulled out to fuel other tissues.

Providing the gut with plenty (and this is under an immune system challenge or something traumatic like a burn victim) *might* prevent a drop in skeletal muscle concentrations."
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lapd21
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« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2005, 04:23:42 PM »

bro i dont care what the hell you put down about glutamine... bottom line , ask any bb and they will tell you that glutamine is one if not the one most important supplement besides protein ( which is #1 building blocks of muscle).....  i used to work at golds gym in fullerton which is owned by milos sarcev u might have heard of him since he is one of the top bb of all time, plus he does contest prep for a few of the top pros in the industry.  ive learned a ton of shit since working there a few years back, im not an expert myself but i do know overwelmingly that glutamine should be taken
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Blake
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« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2005, 05:27:14 PM »

bro i dont care what the hell you put down about glutamine... bottom line , ask any bb and they will tell you that glutamine is one if not the one most important supplement besides protein ( which is #1 building blocks of muscle).....  i used to work at golds gym in fullerton which is owned by milos sarcev u might have heard of him since he is one of the top bb of all time, plus he does contest prep for a few of the top pros in the industry.  ive learned a ton of shit since working there a few years back, im not an expert myself but i do know overwelmingly that glutamine should be taken

Personally, I don't think pro bodybuilders are the best sources of information, despite what they've achieved.  I also don't believe in bodybuilder anecdotes, pros or otherwise.   My $.02 and opinion.

If you feel that glutamine benefits you, that's cool.  I've taken glutamine in the past, at up to 30 grams a day for months at a time, and didn't notice anything in terms of muscle growth (ie no better growth than before I was taking glutamine).  Again, if you like it, that's cool.  I can simply agree to disagree.    Wink
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lapd21
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2005, 05:40:10 PM »

if you dont listen to the very people who are the best in the world at what they do and thats bb then you have a problem...  thats like going to a hardware store and looking to buy tomatoes its not going to happen!!
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Brutal_1
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« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2005, 06:07:16 PM »


I'm sorry but Lyle graduated from UCLA... Roll Eyes  Therefore, I hate him  Grin


But seriously though, Mr. Mcdonald ONLY has a BS in Kinesiology Blake, I'm sorry but that doesn't warrant much "respect" in the scientific community.

I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but even on his website he says that these are all his own humble opinions...

And if you think that bodybuilders aren't the best source of information (which I agree), what makes you think that Mr. Mcdonald (with only a BS) is any better?Huh Huh  Just curious...


I don't know bro, it just seems like you see him as God (if you're not him), and you take his word as the end all of all supplements Roll Eyes  There is life beyond Mcdonald  Grin  Here's a quote from him, and he sounds completely humble, opposite of they way you make him seem:

"Please note that I am no expert of any sort on the use of steroids or other chemical compounds as they apply to bodybuilding and sporting performance.  I know just enough to be dangerous which is arguably worse than knowing nothing at all.  Questions pertaining to these topics should be addressed to Bill Roberts who has forgotten more about anabolic steroids than I will ever know.  The only compounds I am even passingly familiar with of this nature are those that have some application to ketogenic and cyclical ketogenic diets such as Bodyopus and I am happy to share what little knowledge and experience I have about them.

My feelings about a lot of topics pertaining to nutrition and training is that there is no one size fits all answer.  Rather any recommendations I may give or opinions I may have are totally context dependent.  An marathon runner has much different nutritional, supplement and training requirements than someone lifting for general fitness twice a week than someone who is an advanced bodybuilder.  So don't be surprised if similar questions get vastly different answers of if I say 'It depends' a lot.  Also realize that the same pieces of research can be interpreted differently by different people.  My opinions may differ from those you see elsewhere based on what I've read."

                                                                                   -Lyle Mcdonald


Just my worthless two cents... Grin

PS He can't help being a bruin  Cool
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Blake
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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2005, 06:40:32 PM »

if you dont listen to the very people who are the best in the world at what they do and thats bb then you have a problem...  thats like going to a hardware store and looking to buy tomatoes its not going to happen!!

I disagree.  I do not believe that pro bodybuilders got to where they are today because of the supplements they took/take.  Which is what makes the supplement advertisments so hilarious.  Seeing Markus Ruhl holding a bottle of Nutrex 1-TU and a quote saying something like "1-TU is the best prohormone out there, I take it and love it" is a joke.  Really Markus??  It isn't your crazy genetics coupled with an absurd drug regimen (among other things) that got you that physique??? 

But that's what supplement compaines want you to believe.  They prey on gullible consumers who buy the muscle rags and see that pro bodybuilder holding the bottle of No-Xplode, super duper creatine, protein powder, etc.  It conveys a message to the little retards that if you take those products you'll build a comparable physique.  There are a few supplements out there that do what they claim.  But those are few and far between.  If you believe otherwise you're a victim of clever marketing schemes.  But, it's all good.  I'm not the one wasting my money month after month in hopes of finding a "magic bullet".

And again, I don't think personal anecdotes regarding supplements are reliable at all, regardless of who's saying it.  Which is where looking at the actual science behind a product and it's claims is helpful.
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Blake
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« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2005, 07:19:08 PM »

I'm sorry but Lyle graduated from UCLA... Roll Eyes  Therefore, I hate him  Grin


But seriously though, Mr. Mcdonald ONLY has a BS in Kinesiology Blake, I'm sorry but that doesn't warrant much "respect" in the scientific community.

I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but even on his website he says that these are all his own humble opinions...

And if you think that bodybuilders aren't the best source of information (which I agree), what makes you think that Mr. Mcdonald (with only a BS) is any better?Huh Huh  Just curious...


I don't know bro, it just seems like you see him as God (if you're not him), and you take his word as the end all of all supplements Roll Eyes  There is life beyond Mcdonald  Grin  Here's a quote from him, and he sounds completely humble, opposite of they way you make him seem:

"Please note that I am no expert of any sort on the use of steroids or other chemical compounds as they apply to bodybuilding and sporting performance.  I know just enough to be dangerous which is arguably worse than knowing nothing at all.  Questions pertaining to these topics should be addressed to Bill Roberts who has forgotten more about anabolic steroids than I will ever know.  The only compounds I am even passingly familiar with of this nature are those that have some application to ketogenic and cyclical ketogenic diets such as Bodyopus and I am happy to share what little knowledge and experience I have about them.

My feelings about a lot of topics pertaining to nutrition and training is that there is no one size fits all answer.  Rather any recommendations I may give or opinions I may have are totally context dependent.  An marathon runner has much different nutritional, supplement and training requirements than someone lifting for general fitness twice a week than someone who is an advanced bodybuilder.  So don't be surprised if similar questions get vastly different answers of if I say 'It depends' a lot.  Also realize that the same pieces of research can be interpreted differently by different people.  My opinions may differ from those you see elsewhere based on what I've read."

                                                                                   -Lyle Mcdonald


Just my worthless two cents... Grin

PS He can't help being a bruin  Cool



Lyle does admit he's not a steroid expert.

What he's good at is destroying the outrageous claims regarding supplements, for one thing.  He's extremely good at looking at research that is applicable to humans, whether it's concerning supplements, dieting, or training.  That's why if you spend any time looking at his forum, he shreds companies like Avant who, at times, use pure animal research in justifying their supplement claims.  Not everything that works in rats will work equally well or at all in humans, for example.

I certainly don't think I make him out to be "a God" or anything like that (in my view), just because I use some quotes of his.  I do however highly respect his opinion and his writings (books).  If one were to believe his knowledge stopped at the extent of his formal education, then how can you explain his expertise when it comes to nutrition and dieting? (not trying to start an argument w/ you Brutal)  The same could be said of someone like William Llewellyn (sp?) who wrote the Anabolics steroid books.  He's known as a steroid expert but has no formal education in the field.  I would generally trust Lyle's opinions on a particular supplement moreso than someone who works for a supplement company because Lyle has no interest in supplement sales.  There's actually a good thread on his site where people try to bash him saying he's simply against supplements of all sorts.  He's not.  He knows that certain things work, but also realizes that the majority of what the supplement companies produce is garbage because they're interested in making money and nothing more.

FWIW, I don't only look at what Lyle writes.  I've spent plenty of hours learning stuff from the guys at Avant (Nandi,etc.) and T-Mag (Berardi, etc).

My $.02   Smiley
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lapd21
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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2005, 09:20:33 AM »

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

 Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed
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