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Author Topic: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit  (Read 21388 times)
TrueBB93
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« Reply #125 on: December 27, 2012, 08:10:50 PM »

Anyone who wants to find out about other religions can do their own research.

 This is a discussion forum not video viewing site.  

 Videos don't always present the truth since the poster can selectively choose videos that represent HIS point of view which may not be THE truth but rather HIS interpretation of what the truth is.

No. These men in the videos have been studying Islam, Judism and Christianity for 10,20,30 even 40 years! Some of these men have been every religion known to man! they have seen, heard, read it all! they are the most qulified to talk about them.

also its much eaiser to get your point across using videos, If i want to describe you the story of jesus is it eaiser for me to write and essay on here? that would take 20 minutes? or just link a vid an say "skip to 4:00-6:30"?
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #126 on: December 27, 2012, 08:12:42 PM »

Is this some kind of joke? You deleted the threads which were islamic lectures to teach people about islam.

Ahmed, as much as their ton of ignorant,disrespectful anti-islamic idiots on here, Man Of Steel dosent seem to be one of them, Im sure he wouldnt worng us by deleteing all of the islamic stuff.

man of steel seems like a good guy.
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #127 on: December 27, 2012, 08:17:25 PM »

Yes, to die for our sins  Wink Cool

How dare you guys battle it out without me Grin

Hey MOS get me in this fight, lol  Cheesy

haha, good to have you Onetime, grab a sword and shield and jump into the arena, lol this section really has been a battle zone!

but all jokes aside, respectful civil debate is alwas good.

and I strongly disagree with the underlined  Cheesy but im sure you expected that  Wink
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« Reply #128 on: December 27, 2012, 08:46:17 PM »

No. These men in the videos have been studying Islam, Judism and Christianity for 10,20,30 even 40 years! Some of these men have been every religion known to man! they have seen, heard, read it all! they are the most qulified to talk about them.

also its much eaiser to get your point across using videos, If i want to describe you the story of jesus is it eaiser for me to write and essay on here? that would take 20 minutes? or just link a vid an say "skip to 4:00-6:30"?

They belong to one specific religion so clearly they wouldnt be biased right? Seen, heard and read it all?   Roll Eyes


The point is this is a discussion forum so you should be able to summarize the key points not ramble on or use slanted vids to make your point. Maybe you lack the intelligence to put it in your words. That would make sense.

now there is a separste section where you can post all your isamic propaganda and slanted views without littering the entire board with this rubbbish.
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #129 on: December 27, 2012, 09:44:59 PM »

They belong to one specific religion so clearly they wouldnt be biased right? Seen, heard and read it all?   Roll Eyes


The point is this is a discussion forum so you should be able to summarize the key points not ramble on or use slanted vids to make your point. Maybe you lack the intelligence to put it in your words. That would make sense.

now there is a separste section where you can post all your isamic propaganda and slanted views without littering the entire board with this rubbbish.

yes, those men are WAY smarter then me, Allah has given them much more knowledge then me Mashallah. why are you so against using videos?
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #130 on: December 27, 2012, 09:50:46 PM »

TrueBB93, do you have anything to offer like your own ideas, beliefs, studies, etc., or do you just post videos?  Is your knowledge and belief based on YouTube?
As you can see by all the Bible verses that I posted, your video above lied about "the original christians DIDNT SAY JESUS DIED FOR THIER SINS!"

Don't believe everything you see on YouTube.

again you fail to understand the point of the videos my friend. these videos are lectures from famous scholars of islam/other religions.

what sounds more credible? Me(truebb93) say somthing or a famous scholar who studied all religions for decades? if i said "early christians pray like muslims" you would say "ahh hes lying" but if i post a vid of christian monks praying like muslims and jews then the evidence is more soild...see what i mean?

btw i have a question for you bro, why are there so many diffrent versions of the bible?
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« Reply #131 on: December 28, 2012, 05:11:06 AM »

haha, good to have you Onetime, grab a sword and shield and jump into the arena, lol this section really has been a battle zone!

but all jokes aside, respectful civil debate is alwas good.

and I strongly disagree with the underlined  Cheesy but im sure you expected that  Wink
Grin

Of course, I enjoy the debates, but when the name calling starts I am out, lol. Let me review the thread first to see what has been discussed and see everyone's position.

 In the mean time keep this in mind; One billion people are interpreting the scriptures as Jesus is the son of God and is part of the Holy trinity, on the other hand we have a billion Muslims who are not interpreting the scripture in that manner.

 Also keep in mind there are millions of Christians who are university scholars who are far smarter then you and Ahmed in the English, Hebrew and Greek language who interpret the scripture as Jesus being the son of God and part of the Holy trinity

and also millions of Muslims who are also university scholars that are a lot smarter then myself and MOS in the English, Greek and Hebrew language that do not interpret the scriptures in this manner.

Why I point this out? cause I am seeing a lot of this;.... "see this verse, well this what this means and see this verse this is what this means" and the rebuttals, 'well no, it does not mean that, it means this", Now with a millions scholars on both sides of the fence backing them up no one can expect anything out of this type of argument, we would simply be going in circles, but nevertheless I will review the thread and offer my 4 cents.

My words are worth double yours  Tongue


Just kidding bro  Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #132 on: December 28, 2012, 05:42:22 AM »

Hi TrueBB93!  Care to address this, without posting videos or articles you did not write?  Thank you!


Watch this man. the question isnt wither christianity is monotheistic or not, but rather MODERN christians do not follow the orders of GOD. Muslim and Jews pray in identical ways, the old christians(in jesus time) did the same, yet almost NO chrsitians do so today, infact most dont even know about it! I dont want to offend but the original christians DIDNT SAY JESUS DIED FOR THIER SINS!

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 11:50-52
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
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« Reply #133 on: December 28, 2012, 05:46:28 AM »



Genesis 1:26
New International Version (NIV)

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


Ahmed already addressed this when describing the royal plural.

Genesis 1:26
New International Version (NIV)

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

The very word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) used of the true God in Genesis 1:26 is a grammatically singular or plural noun for "god" or "gods" in both modern and ancient Hebrew language.

So not only does Genesis 1:26 offer support for the Trinity, but also the name Elohim itself in its singularity offers support for One True God, yet at the same time in its plurality offers support for three persons in the one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are mentioned later in the Bible:

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:9-14
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
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« Reply #134 on: December 28, 2012, 05:46:58 AM »



Genesis 18:1
The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.

Genesis 18:22
The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.

Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.


Honestly I'm not sure why you pasted these excerpts, but if it was to suggest that "Lord" = "God" then refer 1 Peter 3:6 where Sarah calls Abraham Lord.  Therefore, if you believe Lord = God then Abraham too is God.  The word Lord is simply a title of authority, ever hear of "Lord Vader"? Smiley

See also 1 Cornithians 8:6 "yet for us there is only one God, the father, and one Lord Jesus Christ."  This verse clearly differentiates the words God and Lord from each other.


"LORD" in Genesis 18 and 19 refers to God:

Genesis 18:1
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Adonai appeared to Avraham by the oaks of Mamre as he sat at the entrance to the tent during the heat of the day.

Genesis 18:22
The men turned away from there and went toward S’dom, but Avraham remained standing before Adonai.

Genesis 19:24
Then Adonai caused sulfur and fire to rain down upon S’dom and ‘Amora from Adonai out of the sky.

Clearly we have God person number one raining fire and brimstone from a second God person who is in heaven, the first one being on earth.
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« Reply #135 on: December 28, 2012, 05:47:54 AM »



Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
John 8:58-59
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.


If God = "I am" then Jesus' quote becomes "before Abraham was born, God!”
This definitely is far from Jesus claiming to be God.


Jesus is claiming to be God in John 8:58, the same 'I AM' that spoke to Moses in Exodus 3:14, and the Jews understood this very well.  That is why "At this, they picked up stones to stone him" - John 8:59
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« Reply #136 on: December 28, 2012, 09:40:54 AM »



John 10:30-33
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”


Someitmes to show solidarity with my wife I say "My wife and I are one."  This does not mean we are literally one being.  But I'm guessing you're also thinking that the fact the opponents started throwing stones on Jesus and saying "because you, a mere man, claim to be God" is evidence.  However, you conveniently skipped the verses before and after this excerpt.  Looking before, verse 24 shows that the Jews were asking him if he is the Christ (not asking him if he was God), to which he confirmed that he is (note Christ does not equal God because the title is used for other humans (Isaiah 45:1, Cyrus of Persian is called God's Christ, just one example).  So they ask Jesus if he is Christ and he replies Yes, then they stone him and accuse him of claiming to be God.  In response (in verse 34) "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, "I have said you are gods?"  If he called them "gods" to whom the word of God came - and the scripture cannot be broken - what about one whom the Father setapart as his very own and sent into the world.  Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, "I am God's Son?"  So here Jesus explains that even if he had said something which they misinterpreted to mean that Jesus is claiming to be God (ex. confirming that he is Christ), they should realise that some human beings were called "gods" in the Bible (ex. Psalms 82:6-8) which shows God has honoured some human beings by calling them "gods."  This is just a figurative expression, but Jesus was reminding the Jews who were stoning him so that they should understand that even if he says something that they take as him claiming to be god, they should take it as a figurative expression.


In his own words, Jesus claimed that he and God the Father are one and the same:

John 10:30-33
"I and the Father are one."

If there were any doubts that Jesus is claiming here to be God,

John 10:30-33
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

The rest of your argument does not make any sense.  The Jews already knew that Christ(Messiah) does not equal God, yet they were stoning Jesus for claiming to be God.  They said so themselves.

And in John 10:34-39, which you quoted in your argument, Jesus claims to be "the one whom the Father set apart as his very own" and in the same passage Jesus also claims to be "God’s Son."  So Jesus is clearly above those whom God called "gods" in Psalm 82:6.  So your argument and Bible passages actually work against you.

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
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« Reply #137 on: December 28, 2012, 10:17:53 AM »



John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?


But in John 5:37 Jesus clearly said that no one has seen God at any time.  1 John 4:12 also says that no one has ever seen God.  If Jesus was God, then whoever has seen Jesus would have seen God.  The verses above you posted, saying "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" mean that by knowing Jesus, one gets to know God, since Jesus taught about God.


I actually agree with you here, but only because your argument actually supports the Trinity and also supports that Jesus is God the Son.

There are many verses in the Old Testament that say that no one has seen God, yet there are also many verses that talk about people having seen God, like Abraham and Moses for example.

If the people of the Old Testament were seeing God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I believe that they were seeing the Word before He became flesh. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.

John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Though Jesus is not God the Father, Jesus is God the Son.  Seeing Jesus is the closest thing to seeing God the Father, because Jesus and the Father are one God.

John 10:30-33
I and the Father are one.
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« Reply #138 on: December 28, 2012, 10:33:42 AM »

man of steel i have a question,Do you know why Jesus(pbuh) was put upon the cross?

I am not Man of Steel, but I'll answer your question.

If you are asking why God the Father sent his Son Jesus to be put upon the cross, and why Jesus allowed himself to be put upon the cross, then the answer is

To Die For Our Sins.

If you are asking why the people put Jesus upon the cross, then the answer is

Because Jesus Claimed To Be God.

John 19:6-7
6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”  But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”
7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 10:11;16-18
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
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« Reply #139 on: December 28, 2012, 11:48:11 AM »

Do you believe the Bible to be word-for-word from God?
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« Reply #140 on: December 28, 2012, 11:55:18 AM »

Do you believe the Bible to be word-for-word from God?
YES. KJV

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 2 Timothy 3:16


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« Reply #141 on: December 28, 2012, 01:34:50 PM »

Do you believe the Bible to be word-for-word from God?

I believe the bible is absolutely inspired by God.....the bible is the living word of God.  Is it word-for-word from God?  No, that's too strong a statement to claim.  That would mean that every word was written by God and handed to man in some type of permanent, printed form by God with no intermediaries or helpers involved whatsoever in the collecting, communicating, documenting or transcribing process.  In essence, a final work would have to be handed by God to man with no intervention on part of man for it to be considered word-for-word from God thereby containing no other possible influence.  I simply can't make that claim.  The bible had multiple authors, all fully inspired by God which allowed them to breathe divine life into the scriptures despite each author writing in their own style yet creating a harmonious collection of books.
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« Reply #142 on: December 28, 2012, 01:40:47 PM »

I believe the bible is absolutely inspired by God.....the bible is the living word of God.  Is it word-for-word from God?  No, that's too strong a statement to claim.  That would mean that every word was written by God and handed to man in some type of permanent, printed form by God with no intermediaries or helpers involved whatsoever in the collecting, communicating, documenting or transcribing process.  In essence, a final work would have to be handed by God to man with no intervention on part of man for it to be considered word-for-word from God thereby containing no other possible influence.  I simply can't make that claim.  The bible had multiple authors, all fully inspired by God which allowed them to breathe divine life into the scriptures despite each author writing in their own style yet creating a harmonious collection of books.
I could be wrong but I don`t think that is what he meant but if he did, just to clarify my post, I hold the same view MOS does. Now the bottom line is; sense it is inspired by God, it has no errors. Everything written within is the truth.
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« Reply #143 on: December 28, 2012, 01:50:49 PM »

I could be wrong but I don`t think that is what he meant but if he did, just to clarify my post, I hold the same view MOS does. Now the bottom line is; sense it is inspired by God, it has no errors. Everything written within is the truth.

Yeah, I had to make an inference based on the question because I wasn't certain. 
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« Reply #144 on: December 28, 2012, 06:40:13 PM »

everything is inspired by god, if god exists.

so obviously the bible is" inspired" by god.

so was the koran, scientology, darwins the origin of species. and mein kampf too. 

but the bible contains wisdom! the bible makes yoru heart set on fire and eyes open wide! surely this means it is divine and to be taken as the word of god.


but the thing is..   alot of stuff can set your heart on fire and make your eyes open wide. lots of things can bring you closer to god.

a touching movie, a beautiful sunset, the hug of a loved one. etc.

so some dudes from way back in the day (a time when people were more in touch with nature) wrote some fables, tried their best to make them wise and feel like truth so that when people would read them they would come closer to god, and then they went and actually told people that their fables were sent from god and passed them off as 'the bible".   

and now billions of people have spent their life thinking that because the bible has wisdom and sets their heart on fire and helps bring them closer to god, that its really sent directly from god and to be taken literally as "his" word.
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« Reply #145 on: December 28, 2012, 08:13:01 PM »

just wondering have any of you ever listend to a Quran recitation before?

also can you tell me why the bible has so many diffrent versions?
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« Reply #146 on: December 28, 2012, 10:55:05 PM »

everything is inspired by god, if god exists.

so obviously the bible is" inspired" by god.

so was the koran, scientology, darwins the origin of species. and mein kampf too. 

but the bible contains wisdom! the bible makes yoru heart set on fire and eyes open wide! surely this means it is divine and to be taken as the word of god.


but the thing is..   alot of stuff can set your heart on fire and make your eyes open wide. lots of things can bring you closer to god.

a touching movie, a beautiful sunset, the hug of a loved one. etc.

so some dudes from way back in the day (a time when people were more in touch with nature) wrote some fables, tried their best to make them wise and feel like truth so that when people would read them they would come closer to god, and then they went and actually told people that their fables were sent from god and passed them off as 'the bible".   

and now billions of people have spent their life thinking that because the bible has wisdom and sets their heart on fire and helps bring them closer to god, that its really sent directly from god and to be taken literally as "his" word.
Bro that is not what is meant by ``inspired by God``. The author that wrote that verse above in second Timothy did not intend that verse to mean what you wrote. The discussion at hand has nothing to do with what is written in your post.
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« Reply #147 on: December 29, 2012, 11:41:26 AM »

Do you believe the Bible to be word-for-word from God?

I will gladly answer your question, after you address this, in your own words.   


Watch this man. the question isnt wither christianity is monotheistic or not, but rather MODERN christians do not follow the orders of GOD. Muslim and Jews pray in identical ways, the old christians(in jesus time) did the same, yet almost NO chrsitians do so today, infact most dont even know about it! I dont want to offend but the original christians DIDNT SAY JESUS DIED FOR THIER SINS!

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 11:50-52
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
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« Reply #148 on: December 30, 2012, 09:00:29 AM »

^You can only fool other ignorant and uneducated people by repeating the same non-sense over and over again.

Historical facts prove that the trinity is a made up belief after Jesus (pbuh). You just don't want your audience to know that.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbfKMLIhOdw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbfKMLIhOdw</a>
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loco like a fox


« Reply #149 on: December 30, 2012, 12:07:06 PM »

^You can only fool other ignorant and uneducated people by repeating the same non-sense over and over again.

Historical facts prove that the trinity is a made up belief after Jesus (pbuh). You just don't want your audience to know that.



How about addressing the Bible instead of posting videos?

Genesis 1:26
New International Version (NIV)

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


Genesis 18:1
The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.
Genesis 18:22
The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.
Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.


Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
John 8:58-59
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.


John 10:30-33
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”


John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?


John 20:27-29
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
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