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Author Topic: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit  (Read 18398 times)
a_ahmed
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« Reply #150 on: December 30, 2012, 12:17:14 PM »

I already tore apart your selective quotations and posted totally opposing verses that destroy the trinity in every shape and form. I just stopped caring of doing it over and over again since you are just copy pasting the exact same thing yourself thinking some other people will not know what those verses are or what those opposing verses that I posted were, etc... etc... It gets lame.

Why post videos? Because they get the point across as well. People who just might be more qualified than you or I, might know more than you or I, might have qualifications more than you and I. Just as truebb93 said, scholars of islam and christianity who have touched, smelt and felt the actual parchments, speak konic greek, hebrew, arabic, latin, etc... amongst various other qualifications. Who know the history intimately; such as in the case of the development and formation of trinitarianism.

The fact is. The trinity did not exist, was not thought by Jesus, it was something formulated and codified hundreds of years after Jesus. It is not the revealed word of God. This is the fact you will not accept as it ruins any of your man worshipping.

Likewise with the bible, the very same story you may or might quote, will be contradicted in other book of the bible. It has little to no credibility thus and the stories are combined to get things across.

That scholar of the bible knows how the bible was formed, changed, manipulated and that's why i posted his videos as he illustrates the various contradictions and manipulations dead on. To showcase as well how the belief in the trinity was developed over time and how ideas were implemented over time to justify this new found doctrine.
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loco
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« Reply #151 on: December 30, 2012, 01:51:32 PM »

I already tore apart your selective quotations and posted totally opposing verses that destroy the trinity in every shape and form. I just stopped caring of doing it over and over again since you are just copy pasting the exact same thing yourself thinking some other people will not know what those verses are or what those opposing verses that I posted were, etc... etc... It gets lame.

Why post videos? Because they get the point across as well. People who just might be more qualified than you or I, might know more than you or I, might have qualifications more than you and I. Just as truebb93 said, scholars of islam and christianity who have touched, smelt and felt the actual parchments, speak konic greek, hebrew, arabic, latin, etc... amongst various other qualifications. Who know the history intimately; such as in the case of the development and formation of trinitarianism.

The fact is. The trinity did not exist, was not thought by Jesus, it was something formulated and codified hundreds of years after Jesus. It is not the revealed word of God. This is the fact you will not accept as it ruins any of your man worshipping.

Likewise with the bible, the very same story you may or might quote, will be contradicted in other book of the bible. It has little to no credibility thus and the stories are combined to get things across.

That scholar of the bible knows how the bible was formed, changed, manipulated and that's why i posted his videos as he illustrates the various contradictions and manipulations dead on. To showcase as well how the belief in the trinity was developed over time and how ideas were implemented over time to justify this new found doctrine.

I am sorry, a_ahmed, but I really do not see where you "tore apart" the multitude of Bible passages that I posted supporting the Trinity and Jesus Christ's deity.  All I remember you saying was something about a royal plurality or something like that.  That hardly tares apart the multitude of Bible passages supporting the Trinity both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and supporting Jesus Christ's deity.  And I am not even done.  I have got many more yet to post.

As for your scholar of the Bible, this Jewish Bible scholar, who was raised in a Orthodox Jewish home, believes in the Trinity:

Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum
Upon graduating from high school, Arnold was forced by his father to leave home because of his faith. In 1962, he began undergraduate education at Shelton College in New Jersey. Transferring to Ohio's Cedarville College, he graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Hebrew and Greek in 1966. He then moved to Israel, where he studied archaeology, ancient history, historical geography, and Hebrew at the American Institute of Holy Land Studies and the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. During this time, he witnessed the historic Six-Day War in 1967. Later that year, Arnold returned to the U.S. and entered Dallas Theological Seminary for studies in Hebrew and Old Testament. He also began working as a missionary with ABMJ (today, Chosen People Ministries).

http://www.ariel.org/ariel-fruchtenbaum.htm
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #152 on: December 30, 2012, 05:49:50 PM »

Yes I have actually but you're being arrogant in acknowledging your failures and your desperation to want to believe something that is untrue.

Some of the verses you quote can't even begin to imagine to forge the trinity in the slightest. What does the destruction of sodom and gomorrah have to do with the trinity? Do you not see that you are SEEING what you WANT to see in EVERYTHING the bible just because you so blindly believe in the trinitarianism.

Just like your opening post in this section about "we", "our" etc.. and ignorantly believing that refers to God being plural lol.. when in fact is is as understood in Hebrew and by orthodox Jews the royal plural.

We need to go back to the basics, you are not willing to acknowledge the HISTORICAL reality that the trinity was NOT thought by Jesus and was not even codified or enforced until hundreds of years later. It is a belief that all historians, christian and otherwise acknowledge as being created way after Jesus. Except the most blind of fundamentalist Christians who also believe the bible is literally the world of God.

This is where the dilemma is, you blindly believe that this 'trinity' is real, ignoring the historical reality and thus... you will try to SEE what you want to see in the bible or elsewhere to justify tens of thousands of pages to yourself that it is true.

Far easier to say God is one as Jesus said so, as Moses said so peace be upon both of them. No arguments, ifs or buts.

It's also rather interesting to see all the hatred of certain islamophobes who are christian to say "we worship a different God, mozzlemz don't worship the God of Abraham"... yet the Jews definetely know and acknowledge that we Muslims worship the God of Abraham, as they do. It is only Christians who have this problem because you have changed the word of God, changed the revelations and changed what Jesus was and thought and instead follow man made laws, man made doctrine and man made beliefs, ultimately leading you to worship of a human being and not God.
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loco
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« Reply #153 on: December 31, 2012, 03:45:59 AM »

Matthew 3:16-17
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”


Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
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« Reply #154 on: December 31, 2012, 09:46:12 AM »

Matthew 3:16-17
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”


Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


 If you want I can get you verses from the Quran that completely destroy the idea of Jesus beingthe son of  God, do you want that? Im sure you dont becuase you say "i believe in the Bibile not the Quran", now flip that arugment backwards, and your posting verses from a book, which has been historically documented to be edited, isnt going to do anything except weaken your aruguement and show your weakness.
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« Reply #155 on: December 31, 2012, 09:53:06 AM »


 If you want I can get you verses from the Quran that completely destroy the idea of Jesus beingthe son of  God, do you want that? Im sure you dont becuase you say "i believe in the Bibile not the Quran", now flip that arugment backwards, and your posting verses from a book, which has been historically documented to be edited, isnt going to do anything except weaken your aruguement and show your weakness.
Well if you believe in your book and he believes in his then really there is absolutely no point to even debating this issue because to be convinced of anything is admit that your book is wrong and no is going to do that.
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« Reply #156 on: December 31, 2012, 09:54:41 AM »

So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah(charity) as long as I remain alive
And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."
That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.

It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.
[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."

Then the factions differed [concerning Jesus] from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved - from the scene of a tremendous Day.
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« Reply #157 on: December 31, 2012, 09:55:21 AM »

Well if you believe in your book and he believes in his then really there is absolutely no point to even debating this issue because to be convinced of anything is admit that your book is wrong and no is going to do that.

you mean exactly what i said in the other thread  Cheesy?
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« Reply #158 on: December 31, 2012, 10:07:59 AM »

by the way this is why  I didnt post Quran qoutes earlier becuase i KNEW you wouldnt believe what the Quran says, just as I dont believe the modern version of the Bibile that you Believe in.

Hence I decided to go with  unbiased HISTORICAL evidence that Jesus never claimed to be God, nor did the early follows of Jesus worship him and associte him with being Gods son! History is history.

unfortunately Historically speaking there isnt one soild proof supporting your arugments, but theres PLENTLY supporting ours(muslims) arugment.

sorry if I offended you, just as you and MOS were doing your duty as a  christian in the other thread, im doing my duty as a MUSLIM in this one  Cheesy Wink Smiley
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loco
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« Reply #159 on: December 31, 2012, 10:30:39 AM »

Do you believe the Bible to be word-for-word from God?

TrueBB93,

I will gladly answer your question, after you address this, in your own words.  


Watch this man. the question isnt wither christianity is monotheistic or not, but rather MODERN christians do not follow the orders of GOD. Muslim and Jews pray in identical ways, the old christians(in jesus time) did the same, yet almost NO chrsitians do so today, infact most dont even know about it! I dont want to offend but the original christians DIDNT SAY JESUS DIED FOR THIER SINS!

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 11:50-52
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
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« Reply #160 on: December 31, 2012, 10:33:47 AM »

you mean exactly what i said in the other thread  Cheesy?
Hey, what a miracle we agree on something  Cheesy

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a_ahmed
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« Reply #161 on: December 31, 2012, 12:34:07 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILp4WFQG6M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILp4WFQG6M</a>
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loco
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« Reply #162 on: December 31, 2012, 12:54:02 PM »

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
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« Reply #163 on: December 31, 2012, 01:39:13 PM »


 If you want I can get you verses from the Quran that completely destroy the idea of Jesus beingthe son of  God, do you want that? Im sure you dont becuase you say "i believe in the Bibile not the Quran", now flip that arugment backwards, and your posting verses from a book, which has been historically documented to be edited, isnt going to do anything except weaken your aruguement and show your weakness.

If biblical scripture in anyway related to or supported the theology of Islam I would agree that the Quran would be an effective reference in denying Christ; although, the theology of Islam stands diametrically opposed to the teachings of Christ and all tenets of Christianity including concepts of salvation, the resurrection, the divinity of Jesus Christ and the ministry and missionary work of the disciples and apostles. 

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The Scott
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« Reply #164 on: December 31, 2012, 07:12:18 PM »

One of the more common and easily understood ways of explaining this is to use the sun.  It is a heavenly body that we can see.  It produces light.  And it produces heat.
Three distinct traits from one source.

Personally I don't worry about it.   

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a_ahmed
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« Reply #165 on: December 31, 2012, 07:21:20 PM »

One of the more common and easily understood ways of explaining this is to use the sun.  It is a heavenly body that we can see.  It produces light.  And it produces heat.
Three distinct traits from one source.

Personally I don't worry about it.   



lol i've heard every innovated explanation of christians referencing to the innovated false belief and doctrine of the trinity?

You heard the gas, liquid and solid one? Egg white and yolk? Family? Father, mother, child? Lmao.

Yet in the first two commandments what does God say through Moses?

Nothing resembles God in the heavens, in the water, in the earth?

Yet here you are foolishly comparing GOD THE ALMIGHTY, our CREATOR, to the creation.
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The Scott
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« Reply #166 on: December 31, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »

lol i've heard every innovated explanation of christians referencing to the innovated false belief and doctrine of the trinity?

You heard the gas, liquid and solid one? Egg white and yolk? Family? Father, mother, child? Lmao.

Yet in the first two commandments what does God say through Moses?

Nothing resembles God in the heavens, in the water, in the earth?

Yet here you are foolishly comparing GOD THE ALMIGHTY, our CREATOR, to the creation.

Riiiiiight...
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #167 on: December 31, 2012, 07:49:12 PM »

Oh I don't know somewhere in Exodus:

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Yet here you are making an idol of a human being.. or simply put, you are comparing all sorts of creation to God the creator.

Water molecules? lol.. the sun? Eggs? Family unit? Eh... I forget the other creative examples.

No matter how many ways you spin this trinity lie that was created hundreds of years after Jesus, it still remains a lie thousands of years later.

Yet what remains is:

Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Mark 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
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The Scott
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« Reply #168 on: December 31, 2012, 07:50:02 PM »

Oh I don't know somewhere in Exodus:

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Yet here you are making an idol of a human being.. or simply put, you are comparing all sorts of creation to God the creator.

Water molecules? lol.. the sun? Eggs? Family unit? Eh... I forget the other creative examples.

English is not your first language, is it? 
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #169 on: December 31, 2012, 07:51:14 PM »

So now you're a sun worshipper?



Or are you an egg worshipper?



Or how about an apple?



Are you an apple worshipper? What if we got more seeds in that apple lol
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #170 on: December 31, 2012, 07:53:38 PM »

This one will blow your mind  Grin

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a_ahmed
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« Reply #171 on: December 31, 2012, 07:54:17 PM »

lmao:

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a_ahmed
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« Reply #172 on: December 31, 2012, 07:55:15 PM »

Blasphemy at it's finest:

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a_ahmed
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« Reply #173 on: December 31, 2012, 07:56:18 PM »

The coolest trinity moment ever:

DODGE THIS!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggFKLxAQBbc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggFKLxAQBbc</a>
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The Scott
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« Reply #174 on: December 31, 2012, 07:57:39 PM »

So now you're a sun worshipper?



Or are you an egg worshipper?



Or how about an apple?



Are you an apple worshipper? What if we got more seeds in that apple lol

Hi stupid.  I am not here to be your friend.  Long have I read your filth and only now have I decided to chastize you for it.  You deserve it.
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