Author Topic: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin  (Read 13303 times)

dj181

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2012, 06:44:41 PM »
There was another long thread about this  topic (i think it was about "thickness" and "density").   A lot of these differences are due to lighting, bodyfat levels on certain areas of the body, and bending the definitions of words.  

Density is about the interior too, not just the surface, so it's a mistake to say that something "looks dense".  Even with relatively simple materials like metal or wood or stone, you can't use your eyes to judge their density.





it's about being dry

dogbowl

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2012, 06:47:46 PM »
Dense Ronnie left , Soft Ronnie right

lighting.  reposition the lights and you change the "density".  

OTHstrong

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2012, 06:49:13 PM »
There was another long thread about this  topic (i think it was about "thickness" and "density").   A lot of these differences are due to lighting, bodyfat levels on certain areas of the body, and bending the definitions of words.  

Density is about the interior too, not just the surface, so it's a mistake to say that something "looks dense".  Even with relatively simple materials like metal or wood or stone, you can't use your eyes to judge their density.




You maybe right if you are referring to the actual meaning of the word density but dead wrong if you are talking about the bodybuilding term "density"

tbombz

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2012, 06:55:49 PM »
Density is about the interior too, not just the surface, so it's a mistake to say that something "looks dense".  Even with relatively simple materials like metal or wood or stone, you can't use your eyes to judge their density.

for one, we don't just see the surface, but we see whats underneath the surface as well. for example, we can see blue veins. we can see muscle striations.

for two, we can make associations between what something looks like and what its interior is like. for example if we see a piece of foam we know from experience that the foam is not very dense. and if we see a piece of lead we know that it is very dense.

when looking at a muscle, if we have prior experience feeling, flexing, observing muscles of different types (shape, size, conditioning, density, etc), then we can make associations between what the muscle looks like and what its interior characteristics are.

for example when you look at the muscles on phil heath they appear like balloons, sort of hollow on  the inside. this is not just because of the smooth skin, but also because of the amount of types of striations, the actual thickness of the muscle, th shape of the muscle, etc.  when we look at johnnie jacksons back it appears extremely dense, because it looks very hard like concrete, you can see thick bundles of fiber, you know if you've been around muscles before that johynnie has a very dense back.


dogbowl

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2012, 06:57:06 PM »
You maybe right if you are referring to the actual meaning of the word density but dead wrong if you are talking about the bodybuilding term "density"

That's what I'm saying though.  The way the term is used in bodybuilding is incorrect and meaningless.  There are some words being used which describe things which are neither visible nor measurable.  

Or they are words which are being used instead of more useful words, like size, definition and proportion.


edited to add:  These variations which you are describing as density, to me, just sound like different levels of muscular definition at a particular size.  Large muscles which are very dry (with textures, similar to concrete or granite) look more dense than large muscles which are not dry (which look balloon-ish, smooth) .   So 'density' is a redundant word to use if you already describe dryness and striations.

OTHstrong

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2012, 07:35:35 PM »
That's what I'm saying though.  The way the term is used in bodybuilding is incorrect and meaningless.  There are some words being used which describe things which are neither visible nor measurable.  

Or they are words which are being used instead of more useful words, like size, definition and proportion.


edited to add:  These variations which you are describing as density, to me, just sound like different levels of muscular definition at a particular size.  Large muscles which are very dry (with textures, similar concrete or granite) look more dense than large muscles which are not dry (which look balloon-ish, smooth) .   
My bad, I see your point

tbombz

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2012, 10:37:12 PM »
That's what I'm saying though.  The way the term is used in bodybuilding is incorrect and meaningless.  There are some words being used which describe things which are neither visible nor measurable.  

Or they are words which are being used instead of more useful words, like size, definition and proportion.


edited to add:  These variations which you are describing as density, to me, just sound like different levels of muscular definition at a particular size.  Large muscles which are very dry (with textures, similar to concrete or granite) look more dense than large muscles which are not dry (which look balloon-ish, smooth) .   So 'density' is a redundant word to use if you already describe dryness and striations.

conditioning and dryness enhance the look of density. but they are not density.


compare guys like dexter - always super shredded and dry, to guys like JOJ - always watery and never shredded.  who appears more dense? JOJ by a mile. because he actually is more dense. you can see by looking at him, DENSITY.

cephissus

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2012, 12:43:40 AM »
conditioning and dryness enhance the look of density. but they are not density.


compare guys like dexter - always super shredded and dry, to guys like JOJ - always watery and never shredded.  who appears more dense? JOJ by a mile. because he actually is more dense. you can see by looking at him, DENSITY.


sounds like nonsense to me

affeman

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2012, 01:12:30 AM »
Jim Stoppani - Flex, July 2005

"Has anyone ever displayed a more muscular, more shredded, higher-quality physique than a 247-pound Ronnie Coleman at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic?"

Dude, that's a question, not an opinion. ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2012, 01:48:18 AM »
lighting.  reposition the lights and you change the "density".  

Wrong

Parker

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2012, 02:03:51 AM »
sounds like nonsense to me
thick, dense muscle

anabolichalo

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2012, 03:41:17 AM »
Wrong
he said recently the 2001 arnold was his best conditioning of all time

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2012, 10:34:23 AM »
he said recently the 2001 arnold was his best conditioning of all time

No he didn't , in facts he said 5 times now 1998 was his best ever

BILL ANVIL

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2012, 12:04:08 PM »
would you not need to disect a bodybuilder to comment on density

lol usually takes one to know one. an experienced eye. but there is no scientific formula or checklist for visual judgment, sorry.

anabolichalo

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2012, 12:05:51 PM »
No he didn't , in facts he said 5 times now 1998 was his best ever
ok then 1998 was the year he got a hummer at the arnold

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2012, 01:29:12 PM »
Dude, that's a question, not an opinion. ;)

He knows that , it's been pointed out to him dozens of times. He's not to smart

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2012, 01:30:12 PM »
ok then 1998 was the year he got a hummer at the arnold

Post a source to him saying it

anabolichalo

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2012, 01:55:06 PM »
Post a source to him saying it
i'm just saying, i'm not sure, but he said that one time he did the arnold despite his policy of taking time off after the olympia, they called him up and said "hey big ron, they are giving a hummer away at the arnold" so he said "i'm there" and went ahead to do the show and take the hummer


and that was his best show ever he said


he said it when he was sitting on a stage with philip, ronnie was wearing a puffy jacket

i can't find it but it's on the youtube

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2012, 02:03:09 PM »
i'm just saying, i'm not sure, but he said that one time he did the arnold despite his policy of taking time off after the olympia, they called him up and said "hey big ron, they are giving a hummer away at the arnold" so he said "i'm there" and went ahead to do the show and take the hummer


and that was his best show ever he said


he said it when he was sitting on a stage with philip, ronnie was wearing a puffy jacket

i can't find it but it's on the youtube

No the video with him and Heath he said 1998

anabolichalo

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2012, 02:04:05 PM »
No the video with him and Heath he said 1998
ok then it was 98 they must have given the hummers

the more you know

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2012, 02:22:19 PM »
ok then it was 98 they must have given the hummers

the more you know

No he got the hummer at the Arnold , you're confusing the contests , but I will say Ronnie in 2001 Arnold is just as conditioned as he was in 1998 where both contests he was under 250lbs


OTHstrong

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2012, 02:25:54 PM »
No he got the hummer at the Arnold , you're confusing the contests , but I will say Ronnie in 2001 Arnold is just as conditioned as he was in 1998 where both contests he was under 250lbs


There was a year he got an escalade at the Olympia though

Ronnie Rep

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2012, 02:28:09 PM »
Easy , Ronnie on the left is dense & dry , Ronnie on the rights is soft and holding water


No Ronnie is dense ,just not as detailed, maybe holding more water but probably has more dense muscle on the right!

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2012, 02:28:11 PM »
There was a year he got an escalade at the Olympia though

2002

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: how is it possible to judge "muscle density" by looking at skin
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2012, 02:30:01 PM »
No Ronnie is dense ,just not as detailed, maybe holding more water but probably has more dense muscle on the right!

Nope he's softer , he's holding more fat & water but still massive

Ronnie stripped of all fat & water