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Author Topic: Why is Britain the most violent country in the EU?  (Read 7524 times)
syntaxmachine
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« Reply #150 on: January 13, 2013, 07:41:55 PM »

Individual rights, and self determination.

The freedom to completely run your own life, individual sovereignty like no other country.  I like Socialism for Europe, but I have a real problem with our politicians trying to mimic it, that's not who we are.  I want us to continue on the path where people can become rich, or completely fail based on their own life decisions.

I don't think it's a matter of better, or worse.  I just hope a place like the US where you can run your own life without government interference (economically, socially, etc) continues to exist.

It sounds like you subscribe to some sort of magical fantasy vision of our country.

Economic mobility is greater in Canada and much of Europe than in the United States, median real incomes in our country are lower than 40 years ago, the U.S. government denies rights based on sexual orientation (unlike Canada and much of Europe), has made a definite shift towards authoritarianism with the extension of the Patriot Act and the hardening of enhanced executive power under GWB (e.g., an ever-increasing reliance on executive orders), wages a war against its own population, resulting in the highest incarceration rates on the planet (unlike Europe, which generally takes a treatment-based approach to drugs), has a tandem with elites in the corporate world who yield an unprecedented control over American minds via the television (Americans watch roughly 5 hours a day on average), and its state/local governments are installing cameras on every corner, deploying drones in the sky, and in general importing more and more military tactics back home to control the population.

That's not to say there aren't great things about the country, nor that the problems listed can't be improved upon to varying degrees. But perpetuation of the orgasmic "freedom" fantasy apparent in your post can only do harm to the extent that it inoculates people to the need for change and to the extent that it fosters utterly ridiculous beliefs like the notion that our center-right politicians are implementing anything remotely like socialism.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2013, 07:46:05 PM »

It sounds like you subscribe to some sort of magical fantasy vision of our country.

Economic mobility is greater in Canada and much of Europe than in the United States, median real incomes in our country are lower than 40 years ago, the U.S. government denies rights based on sexual orientation (unlike Canada and much of Europe), has made a definite shift towards authoritarianism with the extension of the Patriot Act and the hardening of enhanced executive power under GWB (e.g., an ever-increasing reliance on executive orders), wages a war against its own population, resulting in the highest incarceration rates on the planet (unlike Europe, which generally takes a treatment-based approach to drugs), has a tandem with elites in the corporate world who yield an unprecedented control over American minds via the television (Americans watch roughly 5 hours a day on average), and its state/local governments are installing cameras on every corner, deploying drones in the sky, and in general importing more and more military tactics back home to control the population.

Unfortunately you're not far off, although that hasn't always been true.

I am a hardline libertarian, I hope we'll move back in that direction
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Maddy
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« Reply #152 on: January 13, 2013, 07:53:01 PM »


wouldn't want to get in this..... But isn't USA more violent and more criminal than basically any of these  "EU-countries" despite the supposed fear planted in criminals ?
I mean in America there is death penalty which doesn't exist in any other normal country, people have plenty of guns, overall punishments are much harder, more people sit in prisons etc.

wikip gives for example following murder-rates:

USA 4.8
Denmark 0.9
Finland 2.2     (shameful figure but warrior-blood from Volga still sits in us somewhat)
Norway 0.6
Sweden 1.0
UK 1.2
Greece 1.5
Italy 0.9
Portugal 1.2
Spain 0.8
Germany 0.8
Netherlands 1.1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

You can see that US is on whole different planet.
Of course these are murder rates but I recall other crimes follow pretty much the same statistics.

mass243
has anyone
bothered to point to
you the Russia
is 10.2 that is
2.5 times of the
United States
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BILL ANVIL
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« Reply #153 on: January 13, 2013, 08:39:08 PM »

It sounds like you subscribe to some sort of magical fantasy vision of our country.

Economic mobility is greater in Canada and much of Europe than in the United States, median real incomes in our country are lower than 40 years ago, the U.S. government denies rights based on sexual orientation (unlike Canada and much of Europe), has made a definite shift towards authoritarianism with the extension of the Patriot Act and the hardening of enhanced executive power under GWB (e.g., an ever-increasing reliance on executive orders), wages a war against its own population, resulting in the highest incarceration rates on the planet (unlike Europe, which generally takes a treatment-based approach to drugs), has a tandem with elites in the corporate world who yield an unprecedented control over American minds via the television (Americans watch roughly 5 hours a day on average), and its state/local governments are installing cameras on every corner, deploying drones in the sky, and in general importing more and more military tactics back home to control the population.

That's not to say there aren't great things about the country, nor that the problems listed can't be improved upon to varying degrees. But perpetuation of the orgasmic "freedom" fantasy apparent in your post can only do harm to the extent that it inoculates people to the need for change and to the extent that it fosters utterly ridiculous beliefs like the notion that our center-right politicians are implementing anything remotely like socialism.

this is a good post with alot of truth. read ppl
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JBGRAY
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« Reply #154 on: January 13, 2013, 08:54:33 PM »

The United States certainly has its share of problems.

One problem that we do not have is that we do not let in hordes of uneducated African and Arab Islamic savages.  Perhaps the pussified white natives of the UK and rest of Western Europe will live in relative comfort of their dummha when they finally allow themselves to be outnumbered.
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Voice of Doom
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« Reply #155 on: January 13, 2013, 10:07:20 PM »

The problems of America come expressly because of the failure of politicians to follow the Constitution.  The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional, IRS is unconstitutional, FEMA is unconstitutional, Homeland Security is unconstitutional, NDAA is unconstitutional, income tax is unconstitutional, fiat currency is unconstitutional, a standing army s unconstitutional, SS is unconstitutional, corporate monopoly is unconstitutional, wars not authorized by Congress are unconstitutional, Federal overstep into rights reserved to the states is unconstitutional, EPA is unconstitutional, FDA is unconstitutional, CIA is unconstitutional, pre-emptive war is unconstitutional, warrantless wire-tapping is unconstitutional, stop and frisk laws are unconstitutional.

It's pretty simple when you break things down.

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mass243
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« Reply #156 on: January 13, 2013, 11:01:14 PM »

He's an idiot




Mad respect for the hard-working.

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P
mass243
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« Reply #157 on: January 13, 2013, 11:47:28 PM »

mass243
has anyone
bothered to point to
you the Russia
is 10.2 that is
2.5 times of the
United States


Maddy-son, guess how many times  Grin
Although there's no need... I can confidently say I know plenty of Russia.

The number of murders have been rapidly declining since re-establishment of law and order in the country.
Road is long but it will plummet to level of normal country.
Number of homicides is now lover than at any time since the end of USSR.

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Wiggs
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« Reply #158 on: January 14, 2013, 01:19:55 AM »

Lotta redcoats in this thread Angry

Don't thread on me. Angry
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« Reply #159 on: January 14, 2013, 01:30:56 AM »

The redcoats are coming for you, but they are American citizens this time.  One of them is the president.
Lotta redcoats in this thread Angry

Don't thread on me. Angry
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slate
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« Reply #160 on: January 14, 2013, 04:45:24 PM »

So  you're saying that the history of how the US came to be is "crazy".

I see.


come on brotha, are u full retard?
obviously i meant some guy from another country showing up at your door telling you a similar story of some white slave owners living in a backwater country having come together to write the greatest constitution in the world some 250 years ago, e.g a brazilian

like a great man once said: "use your fucking imagination"


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« Reply #161 on: January 14, 2013, 04:58:23 PM »

come on brotha, are u full retard?
obviously i meant some guy from another country showing up at your door telling you a similar story of some white slave owners living in a backwater country having come together to write the greatest constitution in the world some 250 years ago, e.g a brazilian

like a great man once said: "use your fucking imagination"




I must be "full retard", because I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #162 on: January 14, 2013, 05:13:26 PM »

I must be "full retard", because I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

I read it three times....  I can't decode it... hahaha

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slate
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« Reply #163 on: January 14, 2013, 05:45:08 PM »

I am not surprised tu and PIP -if they are different people- cant get this since you guys can get the  real important stuff

in any case as i am feeling lenient i will re-phrase my point,

however- and this is a crucial point- a big part of the problem of explaining my point to you is that i am arguing that people like you are so 'brainwashed' they cant even conceive of how naif your beliefs are. This of course is going to make it difficult for you to understand my point.

Stop here. Read what I wrote above a couple of times. and then keep reading

OK back on track

what i am trying very hard to do is to make a point by asking you to step outside your box while keeping you in familiar territory so that i dont loose you completely

Imagine a brazilian guy tells you that the constitution brazil approved when they became independent in the 1820s was this fabulous document . so good indeed that even after 200 years the whole thing cant be improved upon and must be followed to the letter. Imagine he then tells you heroic stories about the people that wrote said constitution and how they were extraordinary human beings- A golden golden generation- which they call; say the Independence saints.who despite the fact that they like anyone were products of their time, could write timeless laws, and were so fascinating that justifiably so thousands of books have been produced documenting the smallest aspects of their lives for whivh there is a never ending audience , like biographies of catholic saints

etc etc

How would you react to this guy's story? I suspect you would think: fuck me this guy is like a north korean or a friend of Tom's (yes Cruise- Scientology... capisce?) , who the fuck can believe that; look at brazil's history. look at history in general, things change so fast ,


do you get it now?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh
 
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #164 on: January 14, 2013, 06:56:05 PM »

I am not surprised tu and PIP -if they are different people- cant get this since you guys can get the  real important stuff

in any case as i am feeling lenient i will re-phrase my point,

however- and this is a crucial point- a big part of the problem of explaining my point to you is that i am arguing that people like you are so 'brainwashed' they cant even conceive of how naif your beliefs are. This of course is going to make it difficult for you to understand my point.

Stop here. Read what I wrote above a couple of times. and then keep reading

OK back on track

what i am trying very hard to do is to make a point by asking you to step outside your box while keeping you in familiar territory so that i dont loose you completely

Imagine a brazilian guy tells you that the constitution brazil approved when they became independent in the 1820s was this fabulous document . so good indeed that even after 200 years the whole thing cant be improved upon and must be followed to the letter. Imagine he then tells you heroic stories about the people that wrote said constitution and how they were extraordinary human beings- A golden golden generation- which they call; say the Independence saints.who despite the fact that they like anyone were products of their time, could write timeless laws, and were so fascinating that justifiably so thousands of books have been produced documenting the smallest aspects of their lives for whivh there is a never ending audience , like biographies of catholic saints

etc etc

How would you react to this guy's story? I suspect you would think: fuck me this guy is like a north korean or a friend of Tom's (yes Cruise- Scientology... capisce?) , who the fuck can believe that; look at brazil's history. look at history in general, things change so fast ,


do you get it now?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh
 
No... I would certainly not think that.

Mostly because our constitution HAS been changed... That's what amendments do... They change the constitution... There are however some t hings in the constitution that you do not fuck with... specifically when things are written in VERY specific ways.


PS... P-I-P and I are on no level the same person... For you to even entertain such a notion is ridiculous.
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garebear
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« Reply #165 on: January 14, 2013, 10:21:08 PM »

"Look at me. I was born in this X country and not in Y country!"

Wow! What an accomplishment. You must have worked so hard to be born in X country. We're all super proud of your accomplishment.
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« Reply #166 on: January 14, 2013, 10:24:30 PM »

"Look at me. I was born in this X country and not in Y country!"

Wow! What an accomplishment. You must have worked so hard to be born in X country. We're all super proud of your accomplishment.

You're a product of your parents Garebear.  There actually is a good reason you are who you are, where you are, when you are.

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tu_holmes
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« Reply #167 on: January 14, 2013, 11:06:00 PM »

You're a product of your parents Garebear.  There actually is a good reason you are who you are, where you are, when you are.



Not only that, but many of us feel FORTUNATE that we were born in the US... We certainly don't mind visiting other places, but I'm damn lucky to be a US citizen... To not have been born in the killing fields of Burma, or the slums of India, or the wretched areas of Africa.

Sure, we aren't special for being born here, but that doesn't mean we can't be grateful that we were.
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garebear
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« Reply #168 on: January 14, 2013, 11:19:47 PM »

Not only that, but many of us feel FORTUNATE that we were born in the US... We certainly don't mind visiting other places, but I'm damn lucky to be a US citizen... To not have been born in the killing fields of Burma, or the slums of India, or the wretched areas of Africa.

Sure, we aren't special for being born here, but that doesn't mean we can't be grateful that we were.
Fair enough.

But a lot of Americans think it gives them the right to look down on other people.

I see it all the time.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #169 on: January 14, 2013, 11:23:59 PM »

Fair enough.

But a lot of Americans think it gives them the right to look down on other people.

I see it all the time.

Why are you so sensitive to so called injustice, racism, sexism, homophobia, and general political incorrectness? Huh

No offense, I'm sincerely curious?  Maybe we could learn something from you?
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garebear
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« Reply #170 on: January 14, 2013, 11:34:27 PM »

Why are you so sensitive to so called injustice, racism, sexism, homophobia, and general political incorrectness? Huh

No offense, I'm sincerely curious?  Maybe we could learn something from you?
Actually I recently read an intriguing book that addresses just this question.

Here is a link to it. - http://www.amazon.com/The-Righteous-Mind-Politics-Religion/dp/0307377903

One major point of the book is that liberals will be more outraged over perceived injustice and conservatives will be more outraged over someone cheating the system/ getting a free ride.

A lot of other interesting points in there as well.

I guess your question essentially boils down to a nature vs. nurture question, however. My honest answer to that is that I have no idea, but the truth, as it usually does, probably lies somewhere in the middle.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #171 on: January 14, 2013, 11:36:04 PM »

Actually I recently read an intriguing book that addresses just this question.

Here is a link to it. - http://www.amazon.com/The-Righteous-Mind-Politics-Religion/dp/0307377903

One major point of the book is that liberals will be more outraged over perceived injustice and conservatives will be more outraged over someone cheating the system/ getting a free ride.

A lot of other interesting points in there as well.

I guess your question essentially boils down to a nature vs. nurture question, however. My honest answer to that is that I have no idea, but the truth, as it usually does, probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Keep up the good work sir, I'm going to check out the book.  I appreciate it
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