The Protein Myth

[WOOO]

http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hey-eff-tard-with-abstract-link-yeah-you.html?m=1

Very interesting. Supports Brad Pilon's stance on Protein intake.

http://www.blogger.com/profile/00232033546447678943

check your source...

[animal1991]

http://www.blogger.com/profile/00232033546447678943

check your source...

I know the guy doesn't look like much, but its not about the guy its about the study.

[animal1991]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23446962/

[dj181]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23446962/

1.2 g per kg is basically .5 grams per pound of bodyweight

but this is for just maintaining muscle mass while on a cal restricted diet

so another question would be... how much protein is required for gaining muscle mass on a diet with a surplus of calories? i'd say not even 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is required/needed

[Montague]

It is the position of the International Society of Sports Nutrition that exercising individuals need approximately 1.4 to 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. The amount is dependent upon the mode and intensity of the exercise, the quality of the protein ingested, and the status of the energy and carbohydrate intake of the individual. Concerns that protein intake within this range is unhealthy are unfounded in healthy, exercising individuals. An attempt should be made to obtain protein requirements from whole foods, but supplemental protein is a safe and convenient method of ingesting high quality dietary protein. The timing of protein intake in the time period encompassing the exercise session has several benefits including improved recovery and greater gains in fat free mass. Protein residues such as branched chain amino acids have been shown to be beneficial for the exercising individual, including increasing the rates of protein synthesis, decreasing the rate of protein degradation, and possibly aiding in recovery from exercise. In summary, exercising individuals need more dietary protein than their sedentary counterparts, which can be obtained from whole foods as well as from high quality supplemental protein sources such as whey and casein protein.

source: http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8


Also, this is one of my favorite quotes on the matter from an intelligent poster:

Your body will adapt based on your metoblism and needs to how much it can absorb at once.  The BIG problem is, that's different for everyone and there's no definitive answer as to only X amount of protein will be absorbed in X amount of time.  Purely speculation.

[dj181]

source: http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8


Also, this is one of my favorite quotes on the matter from an intelligent poster:

good stuff man, thanks

[Montague]

good stuff man, thanks

Sure. Princess L posted links to that study several years ago. The thread is pinned on this board.
And remember, you can look up five different studies and find five different conclusions.

I consider these studies to be like general guidelines. Don't be afraid to experiment to find an amount that's good for you. I've found that I make better progress on more than the recommended protein amounts. As mentioned above, you've got to take into account the rest of your diet, training habits, metabolism, and goals.

[animal1991]

source: http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8


Also, this is one of my favorite quotes on the matter from an intelligent poster:

I think these guidelines are geared more toward atheletes working out twice a day, 5 days a week, maybe even more, with very high intensity. So I would say their protein demands are bigger.

But if you look at the average gym rat, working out 3/4 times a week, for 45min - 1 hour a day, 1,2g/kg is more than enough I would think. I would say if one adds cardio to the equation I would maybe increase it to 1,5g/kg. But either way I think 1,2g/kg is a good starting point.

I've been eating below 1g/lb protein for a while now and fasting 2x a week and I haven't lost any muscle. And I've been cutting. Lost 6kg so far and I'm now around 12% bodyfat.

I've read John Barban and Brad Pilon stating you only start losing muscle when you are near essential bodyfat levels (3-5%), until then, your body has more than enough fat to give your body energy.

[animal1991]

http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/mike-mentzers/?p=1

Yes, I know a Mentzer interview. But I've always liked his way of thinking toward nutrition. 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.

Yes I know he was on roids, amphetamines etc etc and "crazy", but still it makes sense what he says in the interview.

[Option D]

this man is retarded

"you dont build muscle buy excercise"


"i out perform 20 year olds in the Sears Tower"


thats excercise.

to come out of his arse and deny the overwhelming evidence of hypertrophy be it myofibril or sarcoplasmic totally discredits everything that follows.. im upset that i watched it

[dj181]

http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/mike-mentzers/?p=1

Yes, I know a Mentzer interview. But I've always liked his way of thinking toward nutrition. 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.

Yes I know he was on roids, amphetamines etc etc and "crazy", but still it makes sense what he says in the interview.

good points there, and it's very important to remember that carbs have a protein sparing effect

[dj181]

http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/mike-mentzers/?p=1

Yes, I know a Mentzer interview. But I've always liked his way of thinking toward nutrition. 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.

Yes I know he was on roids, amphetamines etc etc and "crazy", but still it makes sense what he says in the interview.

just read that article and Mentzer said this... "I’m in the process of losing bodyfat now, and I’m going to try and keep my bodyfat at 4 to 5 percent during the year, and then before a contest try to get down to 2.5."

keeping and maintaining 4-5% bodyfat year-round

no fucking way!

but that raises a good point which is basically what is a good and maintainable year-round percent bodyfat? i'd say 7-8%

[Borracho]

just read that article and Mentzer said this... "I’m in the process of losing bodyfat now, and I’m going to try and keep my bodyfat at 4 to 5 percent during the year, and then before a contest try to get down to 2.5."

keeping and maintaining 4-5% bodyfat year-round

no fucking way!

but that raises a good point which is basically what is a good and maintainable year-round percent bodyfat? i'd say 7-8%

Not even Galeniko does that. Well.....if anyone can it'd sure be him but if we're trying to gain size we have to sacrifice getting much higher than that. 7-8 percent is shredded going by normal people standards. I doubt there is an exact number dj...but for certain something under 12%....anything over that is counter productive I would think. Decreased insulin sensitivity...rise in estrogen levels....etc.

[dj181]

Not even Galeniko does that. Well.....if anyone can it'd sure be him but if we're trying to gain size we have to sacrifice getting much higher than that. 7-8 percent is shredded going by normal people standards. I doubt there is an exact number dj...but for certain something under 12%....anything over that is counter productive I would think. Decreased insulin sensitivity...rise in estrogen levels....etc.

thanks for the feedback man

so you think that even holding and maintaining 7-8% is unrealistic?

i look at this pic and i think to myself i should be able to keep and hold this kinda condition year-round, and the thing is i know it's not really possible but since it's on this photo my dumbass mind tells me it's something that can be done

right now i'm around 10-11% and i feel like a fucking fatass

[Borracho]

thanks for the feedback man

so you think that even holding and maintaining 7-8% is unrealistic?

i look at this pic and i think to myself i should be able to keep and hold this kinda condition year-round, and the thing is i know it's not really possible but since it's on this photo my dumbass mind tells me it's something that can be done

right now i'm around 10-11% and i feel like a fucking fatass

Its very realistic and many people do it Dougie 

The thing is..... me and you are still twinks and we should concern ourselves with adding some size. Once we reach that level only then should we maintain a certain condition year round. But for now...we should concentrate on growing.

[dj181]

Its very realistic and many people do it Dougie  

The thing is..... me and you are still twinks and we should concern ourselves with adding some size. Once we reach that level only then should we maintain a certain condition year round. But for now...we should concentrate on growing.

 

good point man

so i guess that it's allright to store a bit more fat when you're in the process of adding lean muscle tissue right?

i just want to put this lean muscle tissue onto my upper bod (chest, back, delts, and arms) but my girl keeps me in check by telling me that i also gotta add size onto my legs (calves included) and ass as well lol

fuck i hate training legs and calves

[Montague]

hey "john", you total retard.

this guy looks like he never trained in his life, ofc he dont need any more protein than my grandmother

now fuck off.

John and his "resources" have been outed.

But, please refrain from name-calling and "fuck off" attacks on this board.

[animal1991]

just read that article and Mentzer said this... "I’m in the process of losing bodyfat now, and I’m going to try and keep my bodyfat at 4 to 5 percent during the year, and then before a contest try to get down to 2.5."

keeping and maintaining 4-5% bodyfat year-round

no fucking way!

but that raises a good point which is basically what is a good and maintainable year-round percent bodyfat? i'd say 7-8%

I think Mentzer underestimated his bodyfat aswell. Maybe his 5% was about 8% and his 5% was his 2%. I mean at 2% bodyfat there is striated glutes etc etc and he never had that

[dj181]

I think Mentzer underestimated his bodyfat aswell. Maybe his 5% was about 8% and his 5% was his 2%. I mean at 2% bodyfat there is striated glutes etc etc and he never had that

yeah i think you're right

but it's hard to imagine that someone at is level could be so delusional

[animal1991]

But b

yeah i think you're right

but it's hard to imagine that someone at is level could be so delusional

Yeah but you know how bodybuilders are

[dj181]

But bYeah but you know how bodybuilders are

i read that article a bit more thoroughly and found this, which is rather spot on

"When you’ve got to diet severely, you invariably also lose some muscle mass. It’s better to do what Clarence Bass suggests: stay lean all year and try to build muscle—you don’t have to add fat to build muscle, by the way—and then zero in six to eight weeks before each contest. I’m not sure what the proper number is—maybe 6 or 7 percent. But it can be done"

6-7% is MUCH MORE REASONABLE than 4-5% lol

[Borracho]

the bigger one is the less bodyfat he can maintain year round.

i can get down to 5%, but theres no way anyone could maintain that year round.
not even 6%.6 is possible with very strict diet year round.7% gives some leniency, 8% is kinda easy.

over 10% on drugs is plain and simply fatso level, the water that comes with the fat will make it look like 15.

in order to grow, something like 7-8% is best imo.

i dont see how anyone could grow while maintaining 6%,other than adding more and more drugs all the time.

to think that stage ready zane shape is even remotely maintainable is crazy, thats with water regulation tricks and everything, jst for a show.

any kind of meal and water drinking will "mess" that shape up immediately.

Doing this for vanity reasons I just don't allow myself to get much over that 10% mark anymore. But even if I was trying to get as big as possible for competitions or for insanity reasons there isn't any benefit in letting yourself get fat like lee priest.



Reading articles back in the day about putting muscle mass actually had me believing I had to be eating whatever and whenever to gain size. One of these articles even mentioned fat lee priest insinuating that its ok to get fat.  

wrt the thread topic.....my body never really handled carbs very well and now using gear the amount of bloat I get on higher carbs is disgusting.

Higher protein and lower carbs has allowed me to eat a lot of food without looking like crap and putting on some lean mass at the same time. I wouldn't go about it any other way....more protein=better results for me.

[animal1991]

0,64g/lb is good protein intake to aim for. 0,82g/lb to be on the "safe side"
http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

[dj181]

0,64g/lb is good protein intake to aim for. 0,82g/lb to be on the "safe side"
http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

agreed

i don't think that one needs one gram per pound of bodyweight

[animal1991]

So I would conclude that 1,2-1,6g/KG bodyweight would be optimal