Natural stack, alternative to 'roids

[anabolichalo]

I beg to differ. When I finally broke 200 lbs, I'd been training for nearly 7 years.

I've often relayed my story of my college days, specificially spring semester 1996. I officially started serious training in 1989.

That semester, I went from 189 to 210. And, I simply wanted to hit 200. 21 lbs in three months, at least half of it lean mass. My mother and my friends shocked when I came home for the summer.

People are just afraid to eat....and I mean EEEEEAAAAAAAT to gain the mass they need.

And when I say "EAT", I don't mean just chewing and swallowing food. I mean ingesting calories, with both regular food and protein shakes.

I recall an article from Jeff Everson, which I used in my science project in high school about calories and nutrition. "If you're having trouble growing, despite stuffing yourself, then it's time you learned the real secret to gaining weight: Liquid Nutrition."

Your blender should be your good buddy. When I couldn't afford weight gain powder, I made my own shakes out of whole eggs and milk. When the cafeteria's breakfast food started to suck or I didn't have time to eat there, I made those shakes along with my weight gain powder, particularly for breakfast.

Get the size you need FIRST; worry about the cuts later. You don't have to turn yourself into a sumo wreslter. But, being ripped should be low on the totem pole, when size is priority.

Didn't Arnold once say, You can't sculpt a pebble; you sculpt a block of granite"?

i dont like this advice at all, most people will just play water and bodyfat games like that

but if it worked for you thats good

[MCWAY]

i dont like this advice at all, most people will just play water and bodyfat games like that

but if it worked for you thats good

You're not going to gain substantial amounts of mass without a little bodyfat. That's unrealistic.

And, THAT is what gets people so frustrated. They think every pound they gain will be (or should be) lean mass. But, that rarely happens, even with steroid users.

[Papper]

In the winter when you are covered up you can bulk up as a natural and look better than average and like you really work out in a well cut t-shirt.

In the summer you can slim down and look good without a shirt and in tank tops and tight t-shirts showing much skin... Sure, people may not be scared by your hugeness, but you look cut and better than the average dude.

I've had regular physique related compliments either way, and that's sort of is enough for me.

[SquatsRule]

I beg to differ. When I finally broke 200 lbs, I'd been training for nearly 7 years.

I've often relayed my story of my college days, specificially spring semester 1996. I officially started serious training in 1989.

That semester, I went from 189 to 210. And, I simply wanted to hit 200. 21 lbs in three months, at least half of it lean mass. My mother and my friends shocked when I came home for the summer.

People are just afraid to eat....and I mean EEEEEAAAAAAAT to gain the mass they need.

And when I say "EAT", I don't mean just chewing and swallowing food. I mean ingesting calories, with both regular food and protein shakes.

I recall an article from Jeff Everson, which I used in my science project in high school about calories and nutrition. "If you're having trouble growing, despite stuffing yourself, then it's time you learned the real secret to gaining weight: Liquid Nutrition."

Your blender should be your good buddy. When I couldn't afford weight gain powder, I made my own shakes out of whole eggs and milk. When the cafeteria's breakfast food started to suck or I didn't have time to eat there, I made those shakes along with my weight gain powder, particularly for breakfast.

Get the size you need FIRST; worry about the cuts later. You don't have to turn yourself into a sumo wreslter. But, being ripped should be low on the totem pole, when size is priority.

Didn't Arnold once say, You can't sculpt a pebble; you sculpt a block of granite"?

So after seven years training you gained 10 plus pounds of muscle naturally in three months? I highly doubt it.

[MCWAY]

So after seven years training you gained 10 plus pounds of muscle naturally in three months? I highly doubt it.

You can doubt it all you want. The fact is that it happened. It's not as if I gained nothing in the years prior to that.

But, like too many of our crying brethren here, I stopped eating the high calories I needed. Part of it was due to this misguided fear of being "fat"; the other part had to do with finances.

I printed my diet here years ago, which looked something like this:

:


#1 - Breakfast

#2 - Mega Mass 2000

#3 - Lunch

#4 - Mega Mass 2000

#5 - Dinner

#6 - Mega Mass 2000 (post-workout)


A serving of Mega Mass 2000 for me was 10 oz. of the weight gain powder in water, which yielded 1100 calories (210 g carbs, 55 g protein, 3 grams fat). During the winter months, when it was too cold to get up early for a sub-standard breakfast at the cafeteria, I consumed what I called "Poor Man's MET-Rx", based on an old-school recipe from the Iron Guru, Vince Gironda. This was a shake, consisting of 6 eggs, 2 cups of milk (I initally started with half-n-half, as Gironda suggested but found tha powdered milk was more economical), and one scoop of milk-and-egg protein powder (the Challenge brand that GNC used to sell at "Buy one, get one 50% off" prices).

I bought a food scale to measure my beef, making sure I got a half-pound of cooked hamburger. Those little scales usually come with a booklet that gives the nutritional breakdown of various foods. I used it initially, when I ate in the cafeteria. But, as school got more intense, I got lazy and decided to eat/drink the same foods every day, knowing what their caloric and protein contents were. Quantity-wise, I peaked at 6500 calories, half of which came from the 3 Mega Mass shakes. As I got busier/lazier, I'd say about two-thirds of my calories I drank from Mega Mass and "Poor Man's MET-Rx". Those 5 drinks gave me 300 to 320 grams of protein, depending on the size of eggs used for the blender brew.

[SquatsRule]

You can doubt it all you want. The fact is that it happened. It's not as if I gained nothing in the years prior to that.

But, like too many of our crying brethren here, I stopped eating the high calories I needed. Part of it was due to this misguided fear of being "fat"; the other part had to do with finances.

I printed my diet here years ago, which looked something like this:

:


#1 - Breakfast

#2 - Mega Mass 2000

#3 - Lunch

#4 - Mega Mass 2000

#5 - Dinner

#6 - Mega Mass 2000 (post-workout)


A serving of Mega Mass 2000 for me was 10 oz. of the weight gain powder in water, which yielded 1100 calories (210 g carbs, 55 g protein, 3 grams fat). During the winter months, when it was too cold to get up early for a sub-standard breakfast at the cafeteria, I consumed what I called "Poor Man's MET-Rx", based on an old-school recipe from the Iron Guru, Vince Gironda. This was a shake, consisting of 6 eggs, 2 cups of milk (I initally started with half-n-half, as Gironda suggested but found tha powdered milk was more economical), and one scoop of milk-and-egg protein powder (the Challenge brand that GNC used to sell at "Buy one, get one 50% off" prices).

I bought a food scale to measure my beef, making sure I got a half-pound of cooked hamburger. Those little scales usually come with a booklet that gives the nutritional breakdown of various foods. I used it initially, when I ate in the cafeteria. But, as school got more intense, I got lazy and decided to eat/drink the same foods every day, knowing what their caloric and protein contents were. Quantity-wise, I peaked at 6500 calories, half of which came from the 3 Mega Mass shakes. As I got busier/lazier, I'd say about two-thirds of my calories I drank from Mega Mass and "Poor Man's MET-Rx". Those 5 drinks gave me 300 to 320 grams of protein, depending on the size of eggs used for the blender brew.

If this is true then you have some of the best genetics in the world. Do you have photos of this transformation? Did you measure your bodyfat content?

[MCWAY]

If this is true then you have some of the best genetics in the world. Do you have photos of this transformation? Did you measure your bodyfat content?

No photos. This was back in 1996. Plus, I wasn't entering a transformation contest. Why would I need photos?

And no, I didn't measure my bodyfat. I wasn't concerned with it. Besides, when I went home that summer, my friends and family were surprised at my new look. And NOBODY thought I was fat.

If you need mass, YOU MUST EAT, steroids or no steroids, genetics or no genetics...YOU MUST EAT!!!!

As for my genetics, they are what they are. As a ectomorph, I finally realized that the only way I was going to reach my goal was to pack away the groceries. Hence I used the diet I described earlier.

Get the raw size you need; worry about the cuts later. Nobody puts on pure muscle all the time, not even steroid users.

[anabolichalo]

naturals however, lose all their muscle they gained when they cut

so why bulk in the first place

[MCWAY]

naturals however, lose all their muscle they gained when they cut

Says who? The only reason you lose all your muscle, as you put it, is because of crash dieting.

That is, you waited too late to start your diet and took your calories too low too quickly, with not enough protein. That happens to steroid users, as well.

If you're not competing or doing a photo shoot, why are you worried about being cut all the time?

so why bulk in the first place

You need the raw size. It's that whole pebble vs. block-of-granite thing.

[anabolichalo]

Says who? The only reason you lose all your muscle, as you put it, is because of crash dieting.

That is, you waited too late to start your diet and took your calories too low too quickly, with not enough protein. That happens to steroid users, as well.

If you're not competing or doing a photo shoot, why are you worried about being cut all the time?



You need the raw size. It's that whole pebble vs. block-of-granite thing.

i'm not convinced on this at all

but oh well it all depends on genetics and peds

[BIG ACH]

Don't laugh at me.... Fuck it... You guys will laugh but whatever...


I actually just bought this today.  Has 3 g D-aspartic acid and 2 g L-carnitine, among other things.  I know its muscle tech but I like their new full disclosure policy.  Plus it tastes really fucking good!!!

[anabolichalo]

what the fuck^^^^

[MCWAY]

Don't laugh at me.... Fuck it... You guys will laugh but whatever...


I actually just bought this today.  Has 3 g D-aspartic acid and 2 g L-carnitine, among other things.  I know its muscle tech but I like their new full disclosure policy.  Plus it tastes really fucking good!!!

I'm not going to laugh. I'll just say you should have waited a few months, until it gets marked down for clearance. I actually tried a sample of Anotest I got from GNC, after another purchase (clearance sale protein, of course  ). And you're right; it's yummy!!

[HappyGorilla]

If this is true then you have some of the best genetics in the world. Do you have photos of this transformation? Did you measure your bodyfat content?

He didn't gain 1 lb of muscle. He is a delusional perma bulker. Just like all those other idiots who will argue the 20-30 lbs they gained in 6 months was all muscle, "man". Idiots.

I gained in two years, 200 lbs on my deadlift, from 400 to 600 lbs. Do you know how much weight I gained. 20 lbs, actual muscle? 3 pounds in IDEAL situation over 2 fucking years. Fucking clown.

[SquatsRule]

He didn't gain 1 lb of muscle. He is a delusional perma bulker. Just like all those other idiots who will argue the 20-30 lbs they gained in 6 months was all muscle, "man". Idiots.

I gained in two years, 200 lbs on my deadlift, from 400 to 600 lbs. Do you know how much weight I gained. 20 lbs, actual muscle? 3 pounds in IDEAL situation over 2 fucking years. Fucking clown.

Yes I agree. Celltech bulking delusion.

[MCWAY]

He didn't gain 1 lb of muscle. He is a delusional perma bulker. Just like all those other idiots who will argue the 20-30 lbs they gained in 6 months was all muscle, "man". Idiots.


I gained in two years, 200 lbs on my deadlift, from 400 to 600 lbs. Do you know how much weight I gained. 20 lbs, actual muscle? 3 pounds in IDEAL situation over 2 fucking years. Fucking clown.

Hey, Einstein! Where did I say that I gained all muscle? Maybe you should actually read before you run your mouth.

Yes I agree. Celltech bulking delusion.

Wrong again! I don't even think Cell-Tech was out back in 1996.

You and the other crybabies can wail about how small you are, how bad your genetics are, and how big you'd be, IF ONLY you had a precious stack to inject in your rumps.

I guess I'll call you guys "perma-leaners": When your abs are all you have and people ask you IF you work out.

[MCWAY]

mclean, any bodybuilder should have somewhat visible abs year round,if they dont its simply a fatso or powerlifter.

My abs are visible, for the most part. I'm just not ripped, nor did I ever claim to be. I can see four of my six-pack (five, if I flex really hard).

Where I have to be careful, especially as I get older is the love handles.

The flip side of that is I don't have to eat nearly as much food as I did back then, to maintain my size or strength (or to get bigger).

My point is and remains that all these people, bleating about how rough they have it, simply are not eating enough food. If their diets aren't right, they can whine about steroids and genetics all they wish. They will get nowhere.

My gains didn't improve, until I buckled down and really started chowing down. Believe me, downing a dozen eggs a day, a half-pound of beef, some chicken, a quart of milk, 3 Mega Mass shakes (described earlier) and whatever decent food was at the cafeteria, WAS NOT a picnic.

But, it was worth it all. I exceeded my expectations and my friends and family were in near-shock.

[SquatsRule]

tt

[BIG ACH]

Take it from someone who has bulked up and leaned down MULTIPLE times for competition! (ME)....

Do you gain muscle when you bulk up?  Sure you do... you need to exceed your caloric requirements to do so.

Is all the weight that you gain when you bulk up going to be muscle?  HELL NO!!!


Here is an example:

In Spring 2003 I competed at 172, then bulked up that entire year after and got up to 230

In Spring 2004 I competed at 176.  But I was much leaner, and looked significantly better. 


Was bulking up to 230 beneficial?  Probably not...  thats not to say that bulking up was a bad idea.... maybe would've been better if I had only gotten up to 210 or 215


ITS VERY VERY VERY hard to put on muscle without putting on fat.  I got in a long chat with Layne Norton about this (laugh all you want... the guy has a fucking PhD in this shit) and he was saying, especially for long time experienced bodybuilders, that its very hard to put on lean muscle mass while staying ripped year round.  He himself follows a certain protocol where he gains weight in the off-season (both muscle and fat) and then he will take 50 weeks and diet down VERY slowly to get ready for shows.  And he believes if he was staying in contest shape year round, there is no way he'd be putting on more muscle and making all the gains that he would make if he puts on a little bit of fat.


MCWAY makes some very valid points.  Gaining fat is beneficial to also gaining muscle, as long as you don't crash diet for a show you are bound to maintain a good amount of muscle.  Again, thats not to say that becoming a fat ass (like yours truly ) in the off-season is a good idea... far from it.

[BIG ACH]

BIG ACH APPROVED  

[njflex]

BIG ACH APPROVED  

HOW'S THE NEW YEAR DIET GOING.........

[BIG ACH]

HOW'S THE NEW YEAR DIET GOING.........

January was great, February was BAD, March is going well so far!  Its a work in progress

I'm being a lot more disciplined with Cardio though so I think that helps!

[dj181]

I think 'yes' in an absolute sense, since the Dutch belong to the tallest people in the world (in general, taller also means wider). Check for example:
Ted van der Parre, world's strongest man in '92 (213 cm)


Olivier Richters (217 cm)


or Alistair Overeem (196 cm)

van der Parre FTMFW

[MCWAY]

tt

Cell-Tech wasn't even on the market, back when I was in college and didn't hit the stores until I GRADUATED.

But, thanks for playing. You and your fellow "perma-leaners" can continue to whine and bleat, while people hold telethons to raise money so you can eat.

[HappyGorilla]

Cell-Tech wasn't even on the market, back when I was in college and didn't hit the stores until I GRADUATED.

But, thanks for playing. You and your fellow "perma-leaners" can continue to whine and bleat, while people hold telethons to raise money so you can eat.

You're an idiot who looked like a fat turd and impressed your fuckin family with your clothes on, you can hide the fat bloated mess you are to untrained people or people delusional like yourself.

Big ACH what is your fucking point? You just said you gained like 60 lbs and dieted down after a year for a total of 4 lbs? That's 4 lbs out of 60 lol. This guy claimed 20 lbs of muscle in 6 months. Every highschool kid does this, maybe entering university. Eat big, pull 450-500 lbs, hit a 300 lb bench and think the 50 lbs they gained is all muscle. Then they diet from 220 and lean down to 170 and reality hits. Or they stay like mcway, permanently delusional.