Author Topic: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..  (Read 10564 times)

OneMoreRep

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Re: If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2013, 04:03:28 PM »
Franklin is another example of a big fish in a small pond. The middle weight division was even weaker during his tenure as champion than it is currently under Silva.

Griffin is a slow plodding fighter with minimal power for his size who seldom moves in any direction other than forward.    To Griffin credit he also has tremendous stamina and iron will. For someone with Silva's style and speed, Griffin is a near perfect opponent to have because he walks right into punches. And judging from the fight and pics of the two of them together, there was much of a size discrepancy.


What I will disagree with here is your take on both Franklin and Griffin. Both of these gentlemen were champions in their weight class. For anyone to call someone who makes it to be champion of their weight class a "B" level fighter is a bit of stretch, in my honest opinion. While they are not the most exciting fighters to watch, let's look at a few things.

First, when it needed to count, Griffin plowed right through Rampage, Shogun, Tito Ortiz AND Chael Sonnen. If he isn't considered a strong fighter after going through all of those guys AND holding the belt, I don't know what to tell you. Yes, he is sloppy and yes he takes unnecessary risks with his head-first approach, but talented he is.

Both Henderson and Belfort are legendary. Okami is a very skilled fighter and is highly ranked (#5 middleweight in the world by Sherdog and #3 middleweight in the UFC official rankings). I wouldn't call him a "B" level fighter either, but I guess that's a matter of opinion, as I have heard enough guys say the same.

Franklin got through the following legends: Wandy Silva, Chuck Liddell and Ken Shamrock (Although I called this fight work). While he also isn't one of my favorites, the man paid his dues and held the belt as the middleweight champion.

A while back myself and another poster, who did the actual math, calculated the physical attributes of the champion within each weight class in comparison to his closest competition.  It was a very enlightening exercise and demonstrated pretty clearly how much size factors in making a champion.

Whenever you can, please provide us with a link to that discussion. I'd like to see exactly how you two gentlemen formulated, by way of calculations, an accurate analysis of how size factored into the making of a champion.

All that in mind, I still believe firmly that Anderson can/would be a problem for anyone. While size can play a big role in a fight, raw skill-set is also important (see Brock Lesnar for an example of how lack of skill can get you to a loss any day).

While most would give the fight to Jones, if they were to meet, I'd still hold steady for Anderson on that bout.

I guess we will have to wait and see, good discussion!

"1"

Nomad

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Re: If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2013, 05:18:59 PM »
You think he is scared to fight someone like Jones?

You've heard of guys like Yushin Okami, Vitor Belfort, Forest Griffin, Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin and Nate Marquardt right?

All of those guys are killers. Those are guys that also go up in weight or have come down in weight to take on Anderson and have all lost to him.

The man is a master in so many arts (has like 4 black belts in different styles and is a professional boxer) and walks around at 230-240 pounds in the off season. While I understand that Jones is a machine, Anderson is a freaking killer.

Before anything else though, what all of these guys (Silva, Jones & GSP) have in common is that they are businessmen first and fighters second.

Just like Jones rejected the first fight against Chael, even though he annihilated him yesterday, it isn't surprising if neither guys want to fight each other from a financial standpoint.

Their reputations bring in way more money then their UFC contracts give out and a loss for any of them translates into a thinner wallet and less long term prospects.

"1"

Anderson doesn't really have a good boxing record. Also Anderson Silva workpace in mma fights would not work well at all for him in boxing.
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OneMoreRep

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Re: If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2013, 05:24:46 PM »
Anderson doesn't really have a good boxing record. Also Anderson Silva workpace in mma fights would not work well at all for him in boxing.

How so Nomad? His professional boxing record was 1-1 (That's taken from boxrec, which is pretty official). He didn't have enough fights to be able to accurately categorize it as good or bad, no?

Also, the mere fact that he made it to be a Professional boxer is huge. You know it's difficult to become a professional boxer and takes a lot of work in the amateur ranks.

I also doubt he would approach boxing with the same workpace he uses in mma. The footwork alone is completely different, as well as the actual defense. Very few mma fighters have any boxing footwork and/or appropriate defense.



"1"

P.S. I think his calling is within MMA. Boxing is another creature all together..

Nomad

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Re: If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2013, 08:17:08 PM »
How so Nomad? His professional boxing record was 1-1 (That's taken from boxrec, which is pretty official). He didn't have enough fights to be able to accurately categorize it as good or bad, no?

Also, the mere fact that he made it to be a Professional boxer is huge. You know it's difficult to become a professional boxer and takes a lot of work in the amateur ranks.

I also doubt he would approach boxing with the same workpace he uses in mma. The footwork alone is completely different, as well as the actual defense. Very few mma fighters have any boxing footwork and/or appropriate defense.



"1"

P.S. I think his calling is within MMA. Boxing is another creature all together..

Anderson Silva boxrec is 1-1, can't really draw any conclusions from that.  In my opinion, when watching his fights Anderson Silva just doesn't have the workrate of a 185lb boxer in terms of numbers of punches/strikes thrown per round. However Silva incredible speed and strength allows him to get away with that in UFC but if Anderson went up against really good 185lb boxers he would not fare as well. For example here is Roy Jones at 168, and look how many punches he throws a minute. Roy Jones isn't even a high workrate fighter, he relies (or used to) on his speed and footwork vs number of punches thrown.



Here is Jones at 185 vs Clinton Woods

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Kwon_2

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2013, 09:26:50 PM »
Not blaming Coach (who is a great coach btw) for anything.

Just saying that if you had stuck with him (travelled to the UK with him and kept training him), he would have won the fight for sure.

He needed you.

Coach is Back!

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2013, 09:30:22 PM »
Not blaming Coach (who is a great coach btw) for anything.

Just saying that if you had stuck with him (travelled to the UK with him and kept training him), he would have won the fight for sure.

He needed you.

 ::)

I don't do their job nor do I know it and they do my job. I did my job, they didn't do their job.

shiftedShapes

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Re: If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2013, 09:41:24 PM »
in the post fight interview he blamed his strength coach, does anyone know who it was?

LOL

The.Giant

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2013, 09:47:20 PM »
::)

I don't do their job nor do I know it and they do my job. I did my job, they didn't do their job.

You brought Kongo in such bad shape he was too tired to keep his hands up for the first round. You should feel personally responsible.
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_bruce_

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #108 on: April 29, 2013, 05:23:14 AM »
You're to blame Coach!!!  ;D
.

Krankenstein

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Re: If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #109 on: April 29, 2013, 05:36:59 AM »
Aside from Henderson, who is truly one of the all time greats, and possibly exception of Belfort; none of those fighters are above B level.   Franklin is another example of a big fish in a small pond. The middle weight division was even weaker during his tenure as champion than it is currently under Silva.

Griffin is a slow plodding fighter with minimal power for his size who seldom moves in any direction other than forward.    To Griffin credit he also has tremendous stamina and iron will. For someone with Silva's style and speed, Griffin is a near perfect opponent to have because he walks right into punches. And judging from the fight and pics of the two of them together, there was much of a size discrepancy.

A while back myself and another poster, who did the actual math, calculated the physical attributes of the champion within each weight class in comparison to his closest competition.  It was a very enlightening exercise and demonstrated pretty clearly how much size factors in making a champion.  

You have that backwards...

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2013, 06:29:14 PM »
CAn someone send this link to Kongo so we can get his perspective...

TheTruth90

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2013, 06:52:13 PM »
Coach sure takes credit when good happens and deflects when bad happens
most extreme case I have seen
also most extreme self esteem issues i have seen

this

If Kongo would have won, it would have been

because of Coach's training.

arce1988

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #112 on: April 29, 2013, 06:57:43 PM »
  Leave Coach alone already. He did his best with Kongo. What athlete did you just train?

TheTruth90

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2013, 07:02:18 PM »
look
it would be fine if he didnt come on here bragging all the time about who he trains or bragging about who his neighbor is or bragging bragging, preaching religion and also attempting to come across as more intelligent than he really is. If he would just be humble it would be fine, but he is the biggest example of bringing it on himself

thank you Mr. Krasnov

arce1988

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #114 on: April 29, 2013, 07:06:15 PM »
  I see your point. I just feel bad. Coach already feels bad that Kongo lost. That should be enough. Right?

Chacka

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Re: UFC 159 - If people are going to blame me for Kongos loss last night..
« Reply #115 on: April 29, 2013, 07:20:14 PM »
Coach is a good man, give him a break, geez