Author Topic: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.  (Read 5509 times)

Bad Boy Dazza

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Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« on: May 02, 2013, 02:59:59 AM »
It would wipe out the illegal market, neutralizing the gang/mafia cultures, reducing gun related deaths and making life better overall for all people?

BB

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 03:57:52 AM »
It would, but another argument that has merit at least in America is "what do you do with all the ex- dope dealers?" . In the States, you essentially have a permanent underclass that survives off of mid and street level drug dealing. Much of the gun deaths are confined to them, and other associated fringes.

If you took the profit out of the drug trade by legalizing it, it would create a very nasty situation in the States at least for a few years, because you'd create an un-educated underclass that have to go back to harder forms of street crime to support themselves. There isn't much industry left in America, so you can't shuttle them into decent paying minimal skill jobs, etc......

I'd like to see it, but it's a long way off, atleast here.

Radical Plato

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 04:03:19 AM »
I never understood the war on drugs.  It obviously never had anything to do with human welfare and was about politics and racism (maybe even religion, always looking to label something a sin).  Look at the results in Columbia and Mexico and the almighty underworld it has produced.  Mexican cartels have taken over whole towns and even have their own Police.  Not even their military can stop them.  Do-Gooders have fucked the world up, just let people take drugs and have fun and concentrate on education and harm minimisation like we do with gambling, tobacco and alcohol.
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oldtimer1

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 04:08:36 AM »
Since 30,000 to 40,000 car fatalities happen every year I can only imagine the increase. I can also imagine the increase in the amount of disabled people surviving on government disability checks. Legalization of drugs will also increase the amount of people addicted who need to resort to crime to pay for drugs. It also will increase the amount of people who need medical care that will be paid for by the productive workers and not the slackers.

Drugs are not good for a productive society. It's only good to bring society down.

Sophus

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 04:30:51 AM »
Legalisation will not increase the amount of people getting addicted

For example in Holland people consume less weed than here in germany

Parker

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 05:16:08 AM »
Legalisation will not increase the amount of people getting addicted

For example in Holland people consume less weed than here in germany
holland and Germany are the US. The culture of the US is that of extremes...
The hard drugs like heroin, cocaine, crack, PCP NEED to illegal. The Mary Jane, I could see being legal.

People will still steal, beg, borrow, kill, to a higher degree if the harder drugs are legalized...

Crime Pays---there is a huge System that supports and makes money off of drugs and criminal behavior. Remember this is a capitalist society.

Radical Plato

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 05:45:39 AM »
Since 30,000 to 40,000 car fatalities happen every year I can only imagine the increase. I can also imagine the increase in the amount of disabled people surviving on government disability checks. Legalization of drugs will also increase the amount of people addicted who need to resort to crime to pay for drugs. It also will increase the amount of people who need medical care that will be paid for by the productive workers and not the slackers.

Drugs are not good for a productive society. It's only good to bring society down.
You're so far out of touch it's not even funny.   You sound like some old alcoholic prescription drug junkie repeating the propaganda from your youth.   Do you know how big an industry drugs already are.  Do you even realise how many people are already driving drug affected, the whole trucking industry runs on Amphetamines. So your argument that they are no good for a productive society is bullshit.  Productive societies are the ones currently using all the drugs.   I bet you haven't even tried illegal drugs have you, you seem to have some voodoo nonsense idea of what they are and what they do.  I bet you've worked alongside a ton of addicts and you haven't the faintest clue.  Because in your mind your looking out for some strung out junkie type with sores all over his body and scratching the shit out of himself.  Let me tell you, the users that end up like that would be losers if they were off drugs, the drugs just exacerbate their loser qualities.  Addicts work in all occupations, from blue collar, white collar to professional.  

And increased levels of addiction when drugs are legal is bullshit.  In Amsterdam, where cannabis is legal, the cannabis use is lower than in the surrounding countries like the Germany, Denmark, Italy and the UK.  During the prohibition of alcohol, usage went up and not down.  So not only did it make matters worse, it started mafia like criminal organisations.  Legalising drugs would add $76 billions dollars to the world economy. And what increased medical care costs, your of you rocker, do you know how much it costs to incarcerate all these drug users not to mention how much Governments spend on the war on drugs.    The US is spending over $500 a second on the war on drugs.  $15-20 billion every year.

This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the benefits to legalisation of drugs.  I actually think the criminalisation of drugs is immoral and when you consider the carnage and bloodshed it has created, it is probably one of the most deadly wars ever fought.  I hope the violence and terrorism currently being experienced in Mexico spreads across the border and you get a taste of what decriminalisation has caused.  It might be time for you to get an education on the reality of the matter rather than rehashing old worn out clichés.  No wonder this world is in the mess it is in.

If you can get a hold of the documentary "Breaking the Taboo", you just might learn something.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturevideo/filmvideo/9703323/Breaking-the-Taboo-trailer-Bill-Clinton-and-Morgan-Freeman-back-anti-war-on-drugs-documentary.html
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Bad Boy Dazza

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 09:39:55 AM »
Since 30,000 to 40,000 car fatalities happen every year I can only imagine the increase.

I didn't say make drug driving legal.

I can also imagine the increase in the amount of disabled people surviving on government disability checks. Legalization of drugs will also increase the amount of people addicted who need to resort to crime to pay for drugs. It also will increase the amount of people who need medical care that will be paid for by the productive workers and not the slackers.

Drugs are not good for a productive society. It's only good to bring society down.

The cost would drop dramatically.  It would reduce crime by addicts.

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 09:55:33 AM »
Since 30,000 to 40,000 car fatalities happen every year I can only imagine the increase. I can also imagine the increase in the amount of disabled people surviving on government disability checks. Legalization of drugs will also increase the amount of people addicted who need to resort to crime to pay for drugs. It also will increase the amount of people who need medical care that will be paid for by the productive workers and not the slackers.

Drugs are not good for a productive society. It's only good to bring society down.

I think the short term more people would use...However the numbers would come down as years go by just like what has happened with smoking...Education has brought down the number of people who smoke today compared decades past. It's always been legal and the numbers seem to be dropping. Even though tobacco companies are spending more and more each year on advertising...Society imop should legalize some drugs and ramp up education. Let this generation take the hit so that future generations will be better suited to deal with it all...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109048/us-smoking-rate-still-coming-down.aspx

muscularny

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 10:18:26 AM »
in 100 years from now people will not understand wtf the big deal of drugs where, just like we cannot understand prohibition


The Ugly

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 10:25:42 AM »
I agree with Parker. Legalize weed, fine. But how in the world to you regulate something like crack or heroin?

deadpan

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 10:26:28 AM »
yeah i say legalize everything. not only would it eventually phase out drug-related crime, but i think it would drive down pharma prices too if anyone can walk into a cvs and buy whatever they need. the pharma companies would actually have to compete instead of relying on ridiculously high prices and ridiculously long patents to squeeze every last penny out of their patients.




Roger Bacon

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 10:45:30 AM »
It would, but another argument that has merit at least in America is "what do you do with all the ex- dope dealers?" . In the States, you essentially have a permanent underclass that survives off of mid and street level drug dealing. Much of the gun deaths are confined to them, and other associated fringes.

If you took the profit out of the drug trade by legalizing it, it would create a very nasty situation in the States at least for a few years, because you'd create an un-educated underclass that have to go back to harder forms of street crime to support themselves. There isn't much industry left in America, so you can't shuttle them into decent paying minimal skill jobs, etc......

I'd like to see it, but it's a long way off, atleast here.

That's what annoys me, US Gun Violence Statistics are heavily skewed by criminals killing criminals.

Tapeworm

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2013, 10:53:30 AM »
Nevermind the risk/benefit debate.  It's not the government's place to tell me what I may or may not do while sitting in my living room.


The Ugly

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2013, 11:28:10 AM »
Nevermind the risk/benefit debate.  It's not the government's place to tell me what I may or may not do while sitting in my living room.

Understood, and I agree to an extent. Problem is, how do you get your hands on it. If it's legal, it will have to be regulated. The government certainly can't allow dirty PCP to be sold by some back street pusher. It will have to be purchased legally through a gov. approved seller, as weed is now in some places. So, in essence, weed is tolerated/approved/endorsed to some degree, as it has been declared relatively harmless, by the government.

How can they possibly do that with harder street drugs that have not, and/or can not, be proven "harmless"?


Tapeworm

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 02:20:43 PM »
Understood, and I agree to an extent. Problem is, how do you get your hands on it. If it's legal, it will have to be regulated. The government certainly can't allow dirty PCP to be sold by some back street pusher. It will have to be purchased legally through a gov. approved seller, as weed is now in some places. So, in essence, weed is tolerated/approved/endorsed to some degree, as it has been declared relatively harmless, by the government.

How can they possibly do that with harder street drugs that have not, and/or can not, be proven "harmless"?




Same as with alcohol & tobacco.  They're harmful but are sold to adults in licensed shops.  Alcohol laws should apply to drugs: no driving, no public consumption or public intoxication, etc.

Legalization/ prohibition debates often seem to end up measuring the effects of each on scales of harm vs good.  [See thread title.]  I don't see gauging utility as providing a clear winner and I'm not sure that projected effect should be the deciding factor anyway.  

I prefer to proceed from the principle of being free to do as you choose so long as you don't harm others.  While you get plenty of supporters on both sides of the prohibition question when discussed as in terms of the effects it will have, no one ever seems to take up the case against individual sovereignty and why a harmless (to others) sane adult shouldn't be free to do as he chooses.

Parker

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 02:38:58 PM »
Take a look at our prescription pill problem..the doctors/pharmacists have become the legal drug dealers.
And people get the pills and get high, or sell them for a higher price---$20 dollars per pill, for 90 pills?
We already have a nation of Addicts---zombies if you will. Always looking for their next fix. Not bothering to bathe, take care of their kids, bills, etc. It's an epidemic.
And don't let someone hooked up on PCP get angry, freaking Hulk-like rage and strength, and the chemical smell is nasty. A freaking, watery-eyed, chemical smelling real life Hulk.


And I think alcohol is worse is than weed.

deadpan

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 02:46:31 PM »
Understood, and I agree to an extent. Problem is, how do you get your hands on it. If it's legal, it will have to be regulated. The government certainly can't allow dirty PCP to be sold by some back street pusher. It will have to be purchased legally through a gov. approved seller, as weed is now in some places. So, in essence, weed is tolerated/approved/endorsed to some degree, as it has been declared relatively harmless, by the government.

How can they possibly do that with harder street drugs that have not, and/or can not, be proven "harmless"?



go and buy vet or human grade PCP from a pharmacy? it's a tranquilizer used in medical settings...  and there's no such thing as "street drugs", only stupid government distinctions and favoritism backed by brainwashing of the mass public and not actual science. nearly every drug at some point originated from medical applications, it was only when they fell out of favor, and the government lost control of them due to widespread recreational use, did they start their smear campaign against these "evil death substances". "street drugs" wouldn't exist if they weren't outlawed and driven out into the streets in the first place.  

back when we were at war with nazi germany the government had no problem force feeding metric tons of amphetamines and barbiturates to our soldiers to increase their battlefield awareness and dampen feelings of fear and remorse and put PTSD symptoms at bay, the germans did the same exact thing, they laced chocolate with amphetamines and handed them out to pilots and tankers, do some research on Panzerschokolade and Fliegerschokolade if you don't believe me. hell, hitler had meth, heroine and cocaine prescribed to him by his doctor during the entire war. and churchill drank like a fish.

and in the cold war the CIA synthesized LSD and crack cocaine and kidnapped mental patients and prisoners, dosing them with massive amounts against their will in some bullshit experiments to test the validity of sleeper agents and "soviet mind control".

but now they take this "holier than thou" stance, as if they are better qualified than us to decide what we put into our bodies, oh yeah a bit of coke is bad but here's some cigs and alcohol and benzos and opiates so you can destroy your liver and lungs and sanity, as long as they get their cut.

fuck that shit. nothing is harmless or harmful, it's what you do with it. hell, even drinking too much water can kill you.

how much money are we wasting keeping drug addicts who have no desire to get clean on various rehab programs? alcohol is legal, when an alcoholic has trouble at work/family, they hand him an AA pamphlet and tell him to fix the shit. but when someone's a crack addict he gets a government funded stipend, a place to live, counseling services, etc. all of this is due to people being brainwashed into thinking "oh this drug is evil it makes good people do bad things". if said drugs were legal those addicts would have no excuse.

deadpan

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 02:52:11 PM »
whole trucking industry runs on Amphetamines.

lol trucking? try the entire academia, medical and scientific industry. nearly every high-GPA egghead i know in uni lives on adderall, vyvanse and ritalin. the stuff sells like candy in college towns.

tommywishbone

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 02:53:58 PM »
It would, but another argument that has merit at least in America is "what do you do with all the ex- dope dealers?" . In the States, you essentially have a permanent underclass that survives off of mid and street level drug dealing. Much of the gun deaths are confined to them, and other associated fringes.

If you took the profit out of the drug trade by legalizing it, it would create a very nasty situation in the States at least for a few years, because you'd create an un-educated underclass that have to go back to harder forms of street crime to support themselves. There isn't much industry left in America, so you can't shuttle them into decent paying minimal skill jobs, etc......

I'd like to see it, but it's a long way off, atleast here.

I agree, plus all of law enforcement, milliions of pigs and pig related jobs would be lost.
a

YngiweRhoads

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 02:56:28 PM »
Nevermind the risk/benefit debate.  It's not the government's place to tell me what I may or may not do while sitting in my living room.

The government owns your body. They're smarter than you and they'll tell you what you can and can't do to your body.
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Tapeworm

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 03:00:50 PM »
The government owns your body. They're smarter than you and they'll tell you what you can and can't do to your body.

I'm jerking off for Freedom!

YngiweRhoads

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 03:20:44 PM »
I'm jerking off for Freedom!

Hear, hear!
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cart@@n

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 03:29:42 PM »
This:

Parker

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Re: Legalize all drugs? Bring down gun deaths.
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2013, 03:36:13 PM »
I agree, plus all of law enforcement, milliions of pigs and pig related jobs would be lost.
not just that. The Judicial system feeds off of effects of addiction. Probation and Parole, programs, fees and fines. Court costs, Judges and clerks, and bailiff salaries. There is a massive infrastructure built on drugs, the addiction and the criminal behavior behind it.