Do you think there is any point in a natural base?

[leadhead]

I trained for 3 years building a base and its very easy for me to maintain what I feel is my natural limit of muscle. IMO I wish I would've started hormones after a year but it doesn't really matter now.

[O.Z.]

I was checking topics on Natural Bodybuilding board and found this kid (don't think he posts here anymore) who has a perfect built for a natural. Great natural physic at such a young age.[ Invalid YouTube link ]

[Van_Bilderass]

Do you really believe that after 1 year of training a natural has maxed (or closely maxed) his muscle mass?

What do you think?

[che]

a natural will after a year only ever gain muscle if the gains 4fold the fat along with that

I totally disagree , it took me  about 10 years to reach my natural limit .

[chaos]

What do you think?

I think the vast majority of people become impatient with their natural gains and start juicing before ever reaching their full potential. I believe a natural can make muscular and strength gains for several years, 5+ at least.

[Van_Bilderass]

I think the vast majority of people become impatient with their natural gains and start juicing before ever reaching their full potential. I believe a natural can make muscular and strength gains for several years, 5+ at least.

Alright. I believe "full natural potential" is something no one ever reaches. Who's to say someone
can't add another natural millimeter on some bodypart after 15 years of training? But the gains after that initial year or two are minute in the big picture. That's assuming the training isn't retarded, and that the trainee somewhat knows what he's doing from the start.

One can make natural strength gains even after 20 years of strength oriented training, but those gains are due to improvements in technique and neural factors.

[Big Chiro Flex]

I think the vast majority of people become impatient with their natural gains and start juicing before ever reaching their full potential. I believe a natural can make muscular and strength gains for several years, 5+ at least.

I share this unpopular opinion as well...I was making noticeable gains during my 5th and last year as a natty, and I would consider myself to have average genetics, though I did have a crazy work ethic.  I'm glad I never touched anything prior to year 5.

But the grass really is greener when you cross over to the dark side 

[O.Z.]

I share this unpopular opinion as well...I was making noticeable gains during my 5th and last year as a natty, and I would consider myself to have average genetics, though I did have a crazy work ethic.  I'm glad I never touched anything prior to year 5.

But the grass really is greener when you cross over to the dark side 

if you were making noticeable gains during your 5th year what made you change your mind and start using?

[Big Chiro Flex]

if you were making noticeable gains during your 5th year what made you change your mind and start using?

Torn labrum/S.L.A.P. lesion  (left shoulder)... My lifting will never be the same due to this injury, it put a major halt on any progression I would make naturally. I would have gone another 5 years or so natty if not for the labrum tear.

[O.Z.]

out of curiosity, can you post a pic of your best before using and that pic in your avatar?

[chaos]

Alright. I believe "full natural potential" is something no one ever reaches. Who's to say someone
can't add another natural millimeter on some bodypart after 15 years of training? But the gains after that initial year or two are minute in the big picture. That's assuming the training isn't retarded, and that the trainee somewhat knows what he's doing from the start.

One can make natural strength gains even after 20 years of strength oriented training, but those gains are due to improvements in technique and neural factors.

Aren't most strength gains due to technique and neural factors
I'm not one to put limits on the bodies ability to adapt. My workouts over the years have consisted of intense phases and cruise phases and that has seemed to work for me.

[cephissus]

Do you really believe that after 1 year of training a natural has maxed (or closely maxed) his muscle mass?

yes, if he's done everything properly (which is unlikely)

[chaos]

yes, if he's done everything properly (which is unlikely)

Another quitter.

[cephissus]

If you want to build muscles just lift weights and eat correctly. After some time you maximize your potential for each muscular group, reach its maximal development which is called the plateau phase. You cant add more weights anymore, you just hit your plateau. Try to develop the lagging bodypart to create a balanced physique. Be content with it, keep lifting (less) and eating healthy to maintain and ...finally fucking go find something else to do for a change.

great post

[cephissus]

Another quitter.

been in the gym 5 days a week probably without a single miss this year (and pretty much for the past ten years), made some "PRs" too

[che]

Another quitter.

Haha, 1 year WTF.

[chaos]

been in the gym 5 days a week probably without a single miss this year (and pretty much for the past ten years), made some "PRs" too

How much juice did you do?

[cephissus]

How much juice did you do?

lol

to be upfront, i think i made all of my "gains" over the course of about four years.  however, i did a lot of stupid, unproductive and counterproductive training (as part of the "learning process" ).  if i counted up the months where i feel certain i grew, it would amount to less than a year total.  for the following six years, i doubt i've grown an ounce of muscle.  i've tried nearly everything i can think of when it comes to training and dieting, but never touched any hormones.

[chaos]

lol

to be upfront, i think i made all of my "gains" over the course of about four years.  however, i did a lot of stupid, unproductive and counterproductive training (as part of the "learning process" ).  if i counted up the months where i feel certain i grew, it would amount to less than a year total.  for the following six years, i doubt i've grown an ounce of muscle.  i've tried nearly everything i can think of when it comes to training and dieting, but never touched any hormones.

You sound frustrated.

[cephissus]

nah, although most gym-goers seem to be.

it all comes down to DNA, as arce so finely puts it.  the average bber can jam all the needles up his ass he wants, he'll still be "hilariously short".  the stringy white kid can stuff his face and lift all the heavy weights he wants, he'll just end up a bloated permabulking mess.  the average ex-athlete can juice or train as "intelligently" as he wants, he'll just look out of place where ever he goes -- so-so in the gym and too insecure-ish looking in real life.

the gym is full of people trying to be something they're not.  when i was younger, i fit right in, thinking i was hot shit and wanting to be big, freaky, etc.  "to whom much is given, much is expected", after all.  i came to realize i was just "decent" and lowered my expectations.  so no, i'm not frustrated.  these days, i'm just happy i was given more than most: i'm lucky to be tall, lean, without glaring weaknesses, and hold enough muscle to look like i at least belong in the gym when i'm there.  i look at most people in the gym and think "thank fuck im not him, what the hell would be the point?"

(no primemuscle)

[CalvinH]

I totally disagree , it took me  about 10 years to reach my natural limit .

Same...about when I hit 30 or so.

[Mr Nobody]

Same...about when I hit 30 or so.

Looks like chaos has about 5 more years.

[Cleanest Natural]

lol

to be upfront, i think i made all of my "gains" over the course of about four years.  however, i did a lot of stupid, unproductive and counterproductive training (as part of the "learning process" ).  if i counted up the months where i feel certain i grew, it would amount to less than a year total.  for the following six years, i doubt i've grown an ounce of muscle.  i've tried nearly everything i can think of when it comes to training and dieting, but never touched any hormones.

another "natural" )

[Soul Crusher]

The point of having a natural base is so that when you get older you still have the structure and frame. 

The 20's somethings who just juice for beach muscles will look like complete garbage and nothing whatsoever after they hit 30 - 35 or so and look like they never touched a weight a day in their lives. 

[Big Chiro Flex]

out of curiosity, can you post a pic of your best before using and that pic in your avatar?

Sure.

I don't have any from my last 1.5 years or so, but this is from my 3rd year I believe. I have a bunch from 2.5 years but those are from when my last comp was when I was 5% BF  so their not an accurate representation of what I walked around at. I was 190lbs or so here. As long as I was really pushing it week after week, (as in trying to PR weekly on one of my big 3 lifts) and my nutrition was flawless, the gains kept coming even at year 5.