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Author Topic: Do you think Jesus was a real person?  (Read 9521 times)
drmarkp
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« Reply #125 on: September 08, 2013, 10:37:35 AM »

Jesus had a white towel and let Mary Magdalene suck his dick under it.

You tell that to Him when you are standing in front of Him someday to give an account of your miserable self...
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #126 on: September 08, 2013, 01:00:11 PM »

Yes I think he was real.  WE know the apostles were real historical people.  So from that I infer that he was real.  Either that or they all shared the same "group delusion." 

WE know??? How do we know anything absolutely unless we were there.
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #127 on: September 08, 2013, 01:02:08 PM »

You tell that to Him when you are standing in front of Him someday to give an account of your miserable self...

I don't believe in final judgment, but the comment about Jesus and the towel was over-the-top, I agree.
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« Reply #128 on: September 08, 2013, 06:29:29 PM »

The problem is that the doctrine of Christ requires something of people.  Something that they do not wish to give.  Or if we are honest, something they would rather not give up.

And yes, He was and is.

You may not realize, but my response was complete sarcasm LOL!
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nzmusclemonster
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« Reply #129 on: September 08, 2013, 07:36:52 PM »

You tell that to Him when you are standing in front of Him someday to give an account of your miserable self...

You are going to hell for your lack of personality.

Hope this helps.
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PTPS
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« Reply #130 on: September 08, 2013, 08:03:31 PM »

You may not realize, but my response was complete sarcasm LOL!

Believe me my friend, I knew it.  But mine was meant to convey something more to those that would rather feign knowing less.
Be well, sir.
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loco
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« Reply #131 on: September 18, 2013, 09:51:51 AM »

I'm not asking if you think he was God, just if he actually existed. Outside of the Bible, is there any evidence that he was real?

Yes:

Josephus Jewish Antiquities (c.93 C.E.)
(later interpolations in brackets)


"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man [if it be lawful to call him a man], for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. [He was the Messiah.] And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him [for he appeared to them alive again at the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him]. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this date.1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pliny the Younger Letter to Trajan (c.111-117 C.E.)

"...they maintained that their fault or error amounted to nothing more than this: they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before sunrise and reciting an antiphonal hymn to Christ as God, and binding themselves with an oath not to commit any crime, but to abstain from all acts of theft, robbery and adultery, from breaches of faith, from repudiating a trust when called upon to honour it."2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tacitus Roman Annals (c.115-117 C.E.)

"They got their name from Christ, who was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. That checked the pernicious superstition for a short time, but it broke out afresh--not only in Judea, where the plague first arose, but in Rome itself, where all the horrible and shameful things in the world collect and find a home."3


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sanhedrin 43a (200-500 C.E.)

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu4 was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover!"4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Endnotes

1. Antiquities xviii. 33 (early second century) from F.F. Bruce, Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974), 37.
2. Pliny, Epistles x.96, from Bruce, p.26.
3. Tacitus, Annals xv, 44, from Bruce, p. 22.
Talmudic designation of Jesus.
4. "Sanhedrin," vol 3 of Nezikin, Babylonian Talmud, edited by Isidore Epstein, reprint (London: Soncino, 1938), 281.
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« Reply #132 on: September 18, 2013, 09:52:36 AM »

Josephus on Jesus - Testimonium Flavianum - Arabic Version
 
"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to themafter his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."
 
Arabic summary, presumably of Antiquities 18.63. From Agapios' Kitab al-'Unwan ("Book of the Title," 10th c.).
The translation belongs to Shlomo Pines. See also James H. Charlesworth, Jesus Within Judaism.
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« Reply #133 on: September 18, 2013, 09:53:17 AM »

Concerning Albinus Under Whose Procuratorship James Was Slain; As
Also What Edifices Were Built By Agrippa.


1. And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus
into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the
high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on
the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the
report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man;
for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high
priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long
time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high
priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you
already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper,
and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, (23)
who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of
the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus
was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper
opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and
Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of
judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was
called Christ
, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some
of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against
them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but
as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and
such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they
disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa],
desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for
that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some
of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey
from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for
Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. (24)
Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in
anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to
punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the
high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and
made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.

Antiquities of the Jews by Flavius Josephus - Book 20, Chapter 9
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Mr Nobody
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« Reply #134 on: September 18, 2013, 09:57:25 AM »

He never lifted.
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loco
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« Reply #135 on: September 18, 2013, 10:02:54 AM »

He never lifted.

Mark 9:27
But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.
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« Reply #136 on: September 18, 2013, 10:42:38 AM »

He never lifted.

Mark 9:27
But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Shizzo
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« Reply #137 on: September 18, 2013, 01:51:13 PM »

Yes:

Josephus Jewish Antiquities (c.93 C.E.)
(later interpolations in brackets)


"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man [if it be lawful to call him a man], for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. [He was the Messiah.] And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him [for he appeared to them alive again at the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him]. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this date.1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pliny the Younger Letter to Trajan (c.111-117 C.E.)

"...they maintained that their fault or error amounted to nothing more than this: they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before sunrise and reciting an antiphonal hymn to Christ as God, and binding themselves with an oath not to commit any crime, but to abstain from all acts of theft, robbery and adultery, from breaches of faith, from repudiating a trust when called upon to honour it."2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tacitus Roman Annals (c.115-117 C.E.)

"They got their name from Christ, who was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. That checked the pernicious superstition for a short time, but it broke out afresh--not only in Judea, where the plague first arose, but in Rome itself, where all the horrible and shameful things in the world collect and find a home."3


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sanhedrin 43a (200-500 C.E.)

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu4 was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover!"4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Endnotes

1. Antiquities xviii. 33 (early second century) from F.F. Bruce, Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974), 37.
2. Pliny, Epistles x.96, from Bruce, p.26.
3. Tacitus, Annals xv, 44, from Bruce, p. 22.
Talmudic designation of Jesus.
4. "Sanhedrin," vol 3 of Nezikin, Babylonian Talmud, edited by Isidore Epstein, reprint (London: Soncino, 1938), 281.
How do you know that these were not later forgeries? Faith?
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2013, 02:21:34 PM »

How do you know that these were not later forgeries? Faith?

Ancients manuscripts and writings on papyrus have their age determined via radiometric dating methods. 

Josephus was a jewish historian and although it isn't conclusively proven that he was or wasn't a  supporter of Christ he did refer to Christianity as "that tribe of Christ's followers" (something like that....not an overwhelmly positive description LOL).  His writings are extra-biblical evidence for the happenings of biblical events from a seemingly non-Christian source.
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« Reply #139 on: September 20, 2013, 07:43:59 AM »

Josephus never referred to Jesus as the Christ, and more than just a few words were added at a later date.. More was added to Josephus during the 4th century than was added to the Book of Mark
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« Reply #140 on: September 20, 2013, 07:48:59 AM »

jesus was a real person.
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sept 10th APF
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« Reply #141 on: September 20, 2013, 08:25:03 AM »

Mark 9:27
But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.

No, that was a metaphorical lifting of his spirits, achieved via bestowing him with knowledge of his salvation!

Cue centuries of static debate over passage whilst science continues to limn the structure of the universe and advance knowledge.
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #142 on: September 20, 2013, 12:16:05 PM »

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O SCIENCE!!!!!
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