Stand Your Ground Law's Latest Victim

[OzmO]

You're losing me a bit.  Is fear a feeling? 

Feelings are subjective.  Just because a person "feels" they are threatened doesn't mean they are and if you use "feeling" as the basis of determining fear as justification for using deadly force you are opening the door to justifiable violence for all kinds of crazy unnecessary killing.  

Fear is an emotion or a feeling.  Feelings are subjective.

In this very situation I would be fearful but not so fearful that I felt my life being threatened by a unarmed man to the extent that I would shot him.

This guy was so fearful he shot him. 

2 different interpolations and reactions of fear.  How can we set a standard for justifiably use of deadly force?: The facts.

He shot an unarmed man who wasn't attempting to B&E, who hadn't gained entry into his home.

[Dos Equis]

Fear is an emotion or a feeling.  Feelings are subjective.

In this very situation I would be fearful but not so fearful that I felt my life being threatened by a unarmed man to the extent that I would shot him.

This guy was so fearful he shot him. 

2 different interpolations and reactions of fear.  How can we set a standard for justifiably use of deadly force?: The facts.

He shot an unarmed man who wasn't attempting to B&E, who hadn't gained entry into his home.

Ok.  Thanks for clarifying. 

Whether the elderly man was actually trying to break and enter isn't a relevant fact.  That's not the standard.  Or is it?  Where are you getting this breaking and entering aspect?   

What's relevant is whether the elderly man who was trying to open the owner's door (a fact,) at 4 a.m. (a fact), failed to respond to commands (a fact), approached the owner on the owner's property (a fact), caused the owner, who had recently moved into the neighborhood (a fact) to feel threatened (an opinion). 

[OzmO]

Ok.  Thanks for clarifying. 

Whether the elderly man was actually trying to break and enter isn't a relevant fact.  That's not the standard.  Or is it?  Where are you getting this breaking and entering aspect?   

What's relevant is whether the elderly man who was trying to open the owner's door (a fact,) at 4 a.m. (a fact), failed to respond to commands (a fact), approached the owner on the owner's property (a fact), caused the owner, who had recently moved into the neighborhood (a fact) to feel threatened (an opinion). 

It is very relavent.  Because in the house they are safe and the man isn't doing anymore than turning the knob.   He then goes outside to shot him.  In fact it's suggested the man had walked away from the door.   

So now you have a man leaving a safe place that wasn't currently  being attempted to be broken Into and never was  and goes outside to man who's away from the door who doesn't respond and shots him.   

[tonymctones]

It is very relavent.  Because in the house they are safe and the man isn't doing anymore than turning the knob.   He then goes outside to shot him.  In fact it's suggested the man had walked away from the door.   

So now you have a man leaving a safe place that wasn't currently  being attempted to be broken Into and never was  and goes outside to man who's away from the door who doesn't respond and shots him.   

sorry Oz its not relevant, I agree he should have stayed in the house but the fact the old man wasnt trying to break in is not relevant to the situation as viewed from the home owner.

Its very logical that anyone who wakes up to a person jiggling their door handle at 4 am would feel there is someone trying to break into their home.

The fact that the guy was senile and didnt know any better has no relevance on the mindset of the homeowner.

[240 is Back]

Homeowner KNEW what was outside.  A person that had tried to jiggle handle. 

He went outside, gave orders, and the person didn't listen as he demanded.  He fired.

It's gonna be tough to prove "feared for his life" LOL...  Really tough.  Old man, how many feet away?  In the yard?  After he'd been out there for 10+ minutes?  Gooood luck proving that.   




Can't wait for the 911 recording...

[240 is Back]

There are 2 kinds of people.

Those that avoid using a gun whenever possible, and those just looking for a reason to shoot another human being.

This man is the latter.  Maybe he'll be charged, maybe not.  But we know he's the type to leave safety of locked door and fire 4 bullets into an unknown target who doesn't obey him.  He didn't HAVE to shoot.

He might beat the rap, he might be indicted.  My guess is that he won't be charged.  But I also know he's a guy that will also pull the trigger, even when not necessary.  Just one of those types that "feels threatened" because he put his own jittery ass in the wrong spot.  Fucksticks like this make me sick.

[OzmO]

sorry Oz its not relevant, I agree he should have stayed in the house but the fact the old man wasnt trying to break in is not relevant to the situation as viewed from the home owner.

Its very logical that anyone who wakes up to a person jiggling their door handle at 4 am would feel there is someone trying to break into their home.

The fact that the guy was senile and didnt know any better has no relevance on the mindset of the homeowner.

You aren't Thinking through.   Because  he stopped and walked away from the door.   Then Hendrix went out side, got no response, the guy walked towards him and and Hendrix shot him. 

The man wasn't doing anything wrong. 

[240 is Back]

You aren't Thinking through.   Because  he stopped and walked away from the door.   Then Hendrix went out side, got no response, the guy walked towards him and and Hendrix shot him. 

The man wasn't doing anything wrong. 

The bottom line is that, by the very bottom scrapings of the law, there are times when this shoot would be legal. 

Completely unnecessary, entirely optional, elective by definition... But possibly legal.

This dude wanted to shoot a motherfvcker.  Let's just be up front . He had waited long enough, was annoyed police took too long, was pissed the silhouette didn't obey him, and just wanted to shoot.  Maybe it'll be ruled legal, maybe it won't be.  But anyone who claims this dude didn't open that door looking for some trigger time adventure is lying to themslves

[OzmO]

The bottom line is that, by the very bottom scrapings of the law, there are times when this shoot would be legal. 

Completely unnecessary, entirely optional, elective by definition... But possibly legal.

This dude wanted to shoot a motherfvcker.  Let's just be up front . He had waited long enough, was annoyed police took too long, was pissed the silhouette didn't obey him, and just wanted to shoot.  Maybe it'll be ruled legal, maybe it won't be.  But anyone who claims this dude didn't open that door looking for some trigger time adventure is lying to themslves

Like I said, I am no lawyer, but I would  really be surprised if this guy doesn't get convicted.

They had already called 911, the guy had stopped knocking and was away from the door, the police were on their way and Hendrix went outside and confronted him, shot him.

[240 is Back]

Like I said, I am no lawyer, but I would  really be surprised if this guy doesn't get convicted.

They had already called 911, the guy had stopped knocking and was away from the door, the police were on their way and Hendrix went outside and confronted him, shot him.

I dont think they'll convict him of murder.  Sure, he pretty much invented the situation of "feared for my life", and sure, his lack of common sense resulted in a poor old disabled veteran being executed.  But that sheriff sure sounded sweet on him.  I'm sure his acting job of "Oh, I was so scared for my life!" did a good enough job to keep him out of bracelets that night.

They did take 3 weeks to indict zimmerman (some blame 'the media', but mounting lies in subsequent interviews kinda made that one a necessity).  My bro shot a guy on video - two men ran into a pharmacy with masks and guns and buckets - and they still took weeks to decide if they were going to charge him, and 22 months to give back his gun!

My GUESS?  The man will never do a year in jail.  They may pressure him into pleading to something that'll give him a slap on the wrist, but it's Georgia, the law is so vague, and while this dude is nothing more than a restless idiot who just ran into a gun battle with a mute old scared man, the law may let him slide.

"Tragic mistake" my ass lol... but the law in these southern states lets people get away with pulling the trigger when entirely not necessary. 

[Archer77]

None of us know what type of guy the shooter is. He may have felt legitimately frightened.  I don't think anyway would feel comfortable with a situation like this. Do I think he deserves jail time?  I'm not sure.  Let's get more information.

[Dos Equis]

The sheriff's comment is persuasive to me:   "Walker County Sheriff Steve Wilson has said he had no doubts that Hendrix felt threatened during the encounter."

This is someone who was on the scene and observed the guy's demeanor.  He has a much more informed opinion than people (like us) who are just reading stories on the internet. 

[240 is Back]

The sheriff's comment is persuasive to me:   "Walker County Sheriff Steve Wilson has said he had no doubts that Hendrix felt threatened during the encounter."

This is someone who was on the scene and observed the guy's demeanor.  He has a much more informed opinion than people (like us) who are just reading stories on the internet. 

Well, part of being the policeman doing the talking is doing everything you can to keep the shooter talking.

No doubt, they've had followup interviews with him. Looking for him to change his story, like zimmerman's lawyer admitted he did - 3 versions of the same shooting, each scarier and more dangerous than the last lol.

They don't arrest/charge until the dude stops hanging himself with his words.  We have no idea what is going on behind the scenes right now.  They were doing follow up interviews with my brother for a week, and they had the shooting ON VIDEO.  Walking him through the shooting a few times.  And with the national spotlight on this case, no way they rush things.

I mean, unless you think the cop tells the camera 100% of what he's thinking at all times.  I think police are more shrewd than that.  "I kinda think he didn't have to shoot, but we're going to keep milking him for more info and give him enough rope to hang himself in court" isn't something that cops usully say to news cameras

[Dos Equis]

Comments made immediately after an incident are more likely to be truthful than comments made weeks or months later.  That's partly why the sheriff's comments are persuasive. 

[240 is Back]

None of us know what type of guy the shooter is. He may have felt legitimately frightened.  I don't think anyway would feel comfortable with a situation like this. Do I think he deserves jail time?  I'm not sure.  Let's get more information.

yeah, the 911 call will say it all.  If he's near hysterical with fear, and we hear "honey, I can't tell what he's doing, I'm going to open door for (insert valid reason), oh gosh, oh golly, here he comes, please save us, stop, please, i dont wanna shoot, please, no..."

Well, if we hear that, he's in good shape.  On the other hand, if the 911 tape tells us "Fck this, we've waited 10 minutes and this MFer is still in my yard, I'm handling it myself... Open...Get on the door, A-hole, now MFer, I'm not gonna warn you again... You hear me?  BAM BAM BAM.    BAM."

Well, in that case, charge him.  I've posted it 10 times now... the 911 tapes answer everything here.  Wifey was on phone during shooting.

[240 is Back]

Comments made immediately after an incident are more likely to be truthful than comments made weeks or months later.  That's partly why the sheriff's comments are persuasive. 

Police are masters at taking the side of the shooter/suspect publicly and in the interview room, buying the sodas, patting them on the back for their bravery, all while getting statement after statement.  Videotaping the walk-thru a few times.  Then they hand over all the info they got, to the DA/prosecutor, and let them make the decision.

if there are inconsistencies and the recordings show malice, anger, anything but pissing-pants fear, well, look for charges to b brought up.  The cops only make their recommendation to the DA, and only a foolish cop would tell the media, and the nation, that they thought the guy was guilty (while he was still cooeprating).

Wait til the questions go south and he lawyers up. 

But yeah, dude, police are always your best buddy while they're getting info from you.  The moment you clam up or lawyer up, the friendly part stops

[OzmO]

The sheriff's comment is persuasive to me:   "Walker County Sheriff Steve Wilson has said he had no doubts that Hendrix felt threatened during the encounter."

This is someone who was on the scene and observed the guy's demeanor.  He has a much more informed opinion than people (like us) who are just reading stories on the internet.  

No one i see is arguing whether Hendrix felt threatened or not.

The core of the argument will be weather he was threatened enough to justifiably use deadly force.

[OzmO]

I think the core of his conviction will be that he left a safe bastion, a house that wasn't in the process of breaking into, that wasn't being broken into in the first place and then committed murder.

[blacken700]

some on this board think if you own a gun it's your god given right to blow people's heads off

[Archer77]

some on this board think if you own a gun it's your god given right to blow people's heads off

Who believes that?

[blacken700]

Who believes that?

do you?

[Archer77]

I think the core of his conviction will be that he left a safe bastion, a house that wasn't in the process of breaking into, that wasn't being broken into in the first place and then committed murder.

This is the crux of the issue in my opinion.  I ask myself, would I have done the same as Hendrix?  The answer is a resounding no.

[OzmO]

Who believes that?

No one.  That's just a tactic of taking an extreme and unrealistic stereotype and sadly using it as an attack or argument.

[Archer77]

do you?

No one has the right to take another persons life unless their life is being threatened.

[OzmO]

This is the crux of the issue in my opinion.  I ask myself, would I have done the same as Hendrix?  The answer is a resounding no.

yeah...

You have 911 on the line, Police on the way, you have a gun and the guy isn't any longer jiggling the door knob or knocking on the door.  In fact he's walked out into your yard.