Dumb Starbucks

[Icelord]

The fact that it costs more to hire a forklift driver than whatever you call the teenager that takes your money and pours your drink.

Unless employers are just more generous with forklift operators, but I doubt it.

Why does it cost more?

A forklift driver is usually hired through an agency. Companies don't hire them directly much anymore because they don't always need the extra labor.

So you the agency calls, sends you to a warehouse/distribution center, and you get on the lifts and load/unload rackings or trailers within 30 minutes of arriving on site, after the supervisor gives you the lowdown on what they want done

A starbucks employee has to be trained on how to clean the place, work the Point of Sale cash register, approach customers, handle receipts, balance the cash register, do inventory, open/close the store
that sounds like a lot more work to me, dude

[Roger Bacon]

waiting tables was my lowest paid job yet it took more skill and than any other job I've had. Busy restaurant work is not easy.

I've always watched wait staff and imagined how difficult it is.

You can make a lot of money though, I know a waitress that makes like 70k believe it or not (well she claims she does).

[Icelord]

I know.  I toss and turn every night thinking about it.

wouldn't sorry about it
people are desperate
even Mexicans don't come to the States anymore because
"normal" people took their jobs

[Roger Bacon]

Why does it cost more?

A forklift driver is usually hired through an agency. Companies don't hire them directly much anymore because they don't always need the extra labor.

So you the agency calls, sends you to a warehouse/distribution center, and you get on the lifts and load/unload rackings or trailers within 30 minutes of arriving on site, after the supervisor gives you the lowdown on what they want done

A starbucks employee has to be trained on how to clean the place, work the Point of Sale cash register, approach customers, handle receipts, balance the cash register, do inventory, open/close the store
that sounds like a lot more work to me, dude

So are you telling me companies are paying forklift drivers more than they're worth?

[Shockwave]

I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift.  And I have experience with both.  Don't let the requisite "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.

Have you ever operated a forklift?  If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?

Stressful? Sure.

More skill? Debatable. Personally id rather pay the guy responsible for driving my several thousand pound vehicle carrying thousands of dollars of equipment more than the guy responsible for pushing the big mac button and handing out a drink cup.

Customer service is easy and takes next to zero skill. It is stressful as shit. And I worked in customer service at most levels. .. everyrhing from fast food cashier to shift manager, to parts sales, to service department manager of an agricultural equipment retail store.

customet service at the level you guys are talking - fast food, starbucks, etc, is a no brainer job for high school/college kids, and the bottom of the barrel. Those jobs arent designed to support a family.

[Icelord]

So are you telling me companies are paying forklift drivers more than their worth?

Absolutely. I already told you Coke pays its drivers $52,000 a year when they're permanently hired.

FedEx and UPS pay their courrier drivers $28-$30 an hour after 2 years on the job, and they just drop boxes off all day. Any clown can learn to do that after a couple of weeks.

Lockheed Martin pays his warehouse workers $19-$25 based on what they do. Their supervisors make nearly twice that.

Absolutely man. The biggest corporations usually pay the best. The exceptions are Walmart, McDonald's, and Starbucks.

[Shockwave]

Why does it cost more?

A forklift driver is usually hired through an agency. Companies don't hire them directly much anymore because they don't always need the extra labor.

So you the agency calls, sends you to a warehouse/distribution center, and you get on the lifts and load/unload rackings or trailers within 30 minutes of arriving on site, after the supervisor gives you the lowdown on what they want done

A starbucks employee has to be trained on how to clean the place, work the Point of Sale cash register, approach customers, handle receipts, balance the cash register, do inventory, open/close the store
that sounds like a lot more work to me, dude

Ha, no. Ive done all that. Trust me, the retail position is far, far more brainless. Stressful yes, but brainless. Youre drastically over complicating it to try and make it sound more difficult than it is.

you push buttons, make sandwiches/fries/what have you (oftentimes more buttonz), sweep, and mop, and wipe tables. I dont know about you,but I do that daily at my own home and have since I was a child. They dont train you to do that, they ooint and tell you what to clean. Woo.

[Roger Bacon]

Absolutely. I already told you Coke pays its drivers $52,000 a year when they're permanently hired.

FedEx and UPS pay their courrier drivers $28-$30 an hour after 2 years on the job, and they just drop boxes off all day. Any clown can learn to do that after a couple of weeks.

Lockheed Martin pays his warehouse workers $19-$25 based on what they do. Their supervisors make nearly twice that.

Absolutely man. The biggest corporations usually pay the best. The exceptions are Walmart, McDonald's, and Starbucks.

And all these fortune 500 companies aren't aware of this massive oversight that's costing them millions?

 

[Icelord]

Ha, no. Ive done all that. Trust me, the retail position is far, far more brainless. Stressful yes, but brainless. Youre drastically over complicating it to try and make it sound more difficult than it is.

you push buttons, make sandwiches/fries/what have you (oftentimes more buttonz), sweep, and mop, and wipe tables. I dont know about you,but I do that daily at my own home and have since I was a child. They dont train you to do that, they ooint and tell you what to clean. Woo.

No, I'm not overstating it. I'm describing it based on what it was to me. Maybe to you it was a breeze. So that just goes to show no two people can agree on how hard it is and how much it should be paid. Which is why the salaries should be debated, not rigidly enforced without any further thought about their appropriateness for the job.

[Icelord]

And all these fortune 500 companies aren't aware of this massive oversight that's costing them millions?

 

So are you actually here to discuss this issue or just ask ironic loaded questions and expect me to do your homework for you. Because I'm not your tutor, Rog.

[Roger Bacon]

So are you actually here to discuss this issue or just ask ironic loaded questions and expect me to do your homework for you. Because I'm not your tutor, Rog.

No, but what you're saying makes zero sense.

[Icelord]

No, but what you're saying makes zero sense.

Straw man argument.
yawn

[Roger Bacon]

The damage you can cause alone by accidentally driving a forklift through a wall or over someone makes the position more valuable than the guy who sweeps and pours drinks.

[Icelord]

The damage you can cause alone by accidentally driving a forklift through a wall or over someone makes the position more valuable than the guy who sweeps and pours drinks.

companies have insurance for things like that
on the other hand, an employee stealing all the cash from the till is a perishable loss
and basically the time it takes to set up loss prevention and shrinkage control, not to mention the expense
in tens of thousands of stores
costs far more than it does to pay out to one or two coneheads who crash their lift into a wall (very rare)

[Shockwave]

No, I'm not overstating it. I'm describing it based on what it was to me. Maybe to you it was a breeze. So that just goes to show no two people can agree on how hard it is and how much it should be paid. Which is why the salaries should be debated, not rigid enforced without any further thought about their appropriateness for the job.

I agree, but it should be left to the employee and the employer. We shouldnt have an outside force such as the fed coming in and saying 'hey, you make too much, you need to pay those guys more, well, because dammit, shaniqua cant afford to raise her 4.5 kids on your cashier wags". If shaniqua is unhappy she should either take it up with her employer or move to a company that WILL pay her what she thinks shes sorth.


unless, of course, shes not worth that to anyone.... which is the paradox were fjnding ourselves in. Too many worthless people arent worth the wage they think they deserve so they go and try and get the government to force their employers to pay them more.

frankly, many of these people just arent worth the wage they want. But they cant/wont accept that and either change, or develop a skill. They just want to be lazy and be handed more money. Fuck that.

[Roger Bacon]

Informs employers that youth employment regulations (29 CFR 570) promulgated under the Fair Labor Standards Act prohibit most employees under the age of 18 years from operating forklifts for non-agricultural operations and reminds employers that all forklift operators must be trained and certified.

There are hundreds of thousands more teenagers in the labor force that are perfectly capable of working at Starbucks, but aren't legally allowed to run a forklift.

The Starbucks salary keeps dropping...

[MikMaq]

Exactly right - thats how they choose to model their business. If people hate to work there, they leave. If it hurts the company enough, they change. If not, oh well. Exactly my point... they're free to pay/treat their employees however they like, it's their reputation and their company. They don't owe anyone anything.

Lol what the fuck is that suppose to mean.

Corporations are not citizens.

Citizens are citizens.

Corporations are foreign parties that get the privilege to do business from citizens.

So if were talking about  an actual democracy it`s absurd to suggest they don`t owe citizens something.





 

[Roger Bacon]

companies have insurance for things like that
on the other hand, an employee stealing all the cash from the till is a perishable loss
and basically the time it takes to set up loss prevention and shrinkage control, not to mention the expense
in tens of thousands of stores
costs far more than it does to pay out to one or two coneheads who crash their lift into a wall (very rare)

One forklift death or serious injury is going to cost more than the entire safe at Starbucks holds. Insurance or not

[Icelord]

I agree, but it should be left to the employee and the employer. We shouldnt have an outside force such as the fed coming in and saying 'hey, you make too much, you need to pay those guys more, well, because dammit, shaniqua cant afford to raise her 4.5 kids on your cashier wags". If shaniqua is unhappy she should either take it up with her employer or move to a company that WILL pay her what she thinks shes sorth.


unless, of course, shes not worth that to anyone.... which is the paradox were fjnding ourselves in. Too many worthless people arent worth the wage they think they deserve so they go and try and get the government to force their employers to pay them more.

frankly, many of these people just arent worth the wage they want. But they cant/wont accept that and either change, or develop a skill. They just want to be lazy and be handed more money. Fuck that.

unfortunately we don't live in a world where you can quit your job just because it exploits you or poses a safety hazard
there's very few jobs available when you consider the high volume of people applying for them
hell, even applying to starbucks doesn't guarantee a callback, let alone an interview or the shitty job itself
it's rough out there, I feel bad for people who aren't connected to someone or have their own source of income
we should all just admire true adonis, he figured it out
working sucks

[MikMaq]

This whole forklifting thing is utter bullshit. The skill involved in driving one ranges from very fucking advanced to far below that of a cashier. It`s all on the demands on the driver. Anyone who drives a forklift should understand that. It`s the difference between driving a semi and driving a golf cart.

[Icelord]

This whole forklifting thing is utter bullshit. The skill involved in driving one ranges from very fucking advanced to far below that of a cashier. It`s all on the demands on the driver. Anyone who drives a forklift should understand that. It`s the difference between driving a semi and driving a golf cart.

the only lifts that require some skill are the ones that involve picking off rackings using lateral forks that extend
other than that, anyone can get a license in one day of training
the rest is practicing on the job

[Voice of Doom]

Because people make more than I do they're greedy and greed is bad.

They should give me more of what they have because they're greedy and greed is bad.

I will use the force of government to take from other people to give to me...because they're greedy and greed is bad.

When I want more for myself I'm morally righteous.  When others want more for themselves they're greedy.
 

[Icelord]

you like to use the word they're and underline it a lot to make a point
I can tell
it's very subtle, nicely executed
and convincing
you might be cut out for Starbucks after all

[Shockwave]

unfortunately we don't live in a world where you can quit your job just because it exploits you or poses a safety hazard
there's very few jobs available when you consider the high volume of people applying for them
hell, even applying to starbucks doesn't guarantee a callback, let alone an interview or the shitty job itself
it's rough out there, I feel bad for people who aren't connected to someone or have their own source of income
we should all just admire true adonis, he figured it out
working sucks

so? Thats not starbucks or mcdonalds problem. Thats your burden. If I went yo my bkss and sai, hey my wife and I just had 2 kids, I can't move anymore you need to give me a raise", hed say "so? Thats not our fault you chose to have 2 more kids. figure it out or go somewhere else.

Lots of people think like you and nome of you can answer WHY a company should be re a uired to pay more just because their employee gas fallen on hard times/made bad decisions.
they just say 'well today you cant just find another job/get educated/etc so therefore the employer is responsible to pay them more', except theyre not responsible for that AT ALL. Just as y9ur neighbor isnt rewuired to pay you a living wage to weed her garden no employer is required to pay their employees a comfortable lower/middle class wage for flipping burgers and mopping floors

[Icelord]

so? Thats not starbucks or mcdonalds problem. Thats your burden. If I went yo my bkss and sai, hey my wife and I just had 2 kids, I can't move anymore you need to give me a raise", hed say "so? Thats not our fault you chose to have 2 more kids. figure it out or go somewhere else.

Lots of people think like you and nome of you can answer WHY a company should be re a uired to pay more just because their employee gas fallen on hard times/made bad decisions.
they just say 'well today you cant just find another job/get educated/etc so therefore the employer is responsible to pay them more', except theyre not responsible for that AT ALL. Just as y9ur neighbor isnt rewuired to pay you a living wage to weed her garden no employer is required to pay their employees a comfortable lower/middle class wage for flipping burgers and mopping floors

Correct, they don't care about you. So you shouldn't care about them, either. Piss in the sinks, spit in the food, and generally do a half-assed job. That's what you're paid for, not to be the best you can be. Action  reaction.