Author Topic: Tennessee atheists win right to distribute literature after schools give Bibles  (Read 88857 times)

Dos Equis

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Yep...strange that people actually have enough free time to whine about this level of bullshit.



Tell me about it.

Dos Equis

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Court Rules 'God Bless America' Not Unconstitutional
Amanda Casanova | Religion Today Contributing Writer
Thursday, February 19, 2015

The Florida high school that told a student not to say “God bless America” during morning announcements said this week that the student did not violate the U.S. Constitution.
 
"Upon consultation with legal counsel and review of legal advisories, the Nassau County School District has taken the position that a student's use of the phrase "God Bless America" during the morning announcements at Yulee High School does not violate the Constitution of the United States," the school district said in a statement.
 
Charisma News reports that the student will still have to remain on-script during announcements. The unidentified student has not been named, and according to school officials, he was not punished.
 
"The student in question has been quite cooperative and understands not to add to the script," said Nassau County School District spokeswoman Sharyl Wood.
 
The controversy started when the American Humanist Association sent a six-page letter to the principal at Yulee High School on behalf of two atheist students at the school.
 
In the letter, the Humanist Association said the phrase "God bless America" is a religious message that "is invidious toward atheists and other nonbelievers," and that it violates the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment that "commands a separation of church and state.”

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/court-rules-god-bless-america-not-unconstitutional.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=chupdate

Dos Equis

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Irrational crybabies.   ::)

Air Force general who spoke of God should be court-martialed, group says
Published May 17, 2015
FoxNews.com

An Air Force general who recently spoke about how God has guided his career should be court-martialed, a civil liberties group is saying.

In a speech at a National Day of Prayer Task Force event on May 7, Maj. Gen. Craig Olson credits God for his accomplishments in the military, and refers to himself as a “redeemed believer in Christ.”

The Air Force Times reports that the Military Religious Freedom Foundation has taken issue with Olson’s remarks, is calling for the two-star general to be court-martialed and "aggressively and very visibly brought to justice for his unforgivable crimes and transgressions."


GENOlson.JPGExpand / Contract
Air Force Maj. Gen. Craig Olson (US Air Force photo)
The group authored a letter to Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Walsh, arguing that Olson’s speech violates rules within the Air Force, which prohibits airmen from endorsing a particular faith or belief.

The letter, posted on the group’s website, begins, “This demand letter is sent to you on behalf of countless members of the United States Air Force who are utterly disgusted and shocked by the brazenly illicit and wholly unconstitutional, fundamentalist Christian proselytizing recently perpetrated, on international television (“GOD TV”), and streaming all over the Internet and in full military uniform, by USAF Major General Craig S. Olson on Thursday, May 7, 2015 during a VERY public speech for a private Christian organization (The “National Day of Prayer Task Force”: NDPTF) headed up by Focus on the Family founder, Dr. James Dobson’s, wife Shirley Dobson. “

". . . disgusted and shocked by the brazenly illicit and wholly unconstitutional, fundamentalist Christian proselytizing . . ."

- letter from Military Religious Freedom Foundation
The group, which believes that the American flag and the U.S. Constitution are the only religious symbol and scripture, respectively, for those who serve in the military, also wants other service members who helped Olson to be investigated and punished "to the full extent of military law."

During Olson’s 23-minute talk, the Air Force Times reports, Olson spoke of "flying complex aircraft; doing complex nuclear missions — I have no ability to do that. God enabled me to do that."

"He put me in charge of failing programs worth billions of dollars,” Olson said. “I have no ability to do that, no training to do that. God did that. He sent me to Iraq to negotiate foreign military sales deals through an Arabic interpreter. I have no ability to do that. I was not trained to do that. God did all of that."

At the end of his speech, Olson asked those in attendance to pray for Defense Department leaders and troops preparing to be deployed.

Olson is the program executive officer at Hanscom Air Force Base in Massachusetts, where he is responsible for more than 2,200 personnel, according to the U.S. Air Force website. He was commissioned in 1982 following graduation from the U.S. Air Force Academy and has extensive operational, flight test and acquisition experience.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/17/air-force-general-who-spoke-god-in-speech-should-be-court-martialed-group-says/

avxo

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That's a bit of an overreaction. He gave this speech on his own time, right? Although, frankly, he ought to be demoted for - by his own admission - not having the qualifications for the position he holds.

Agnostic007

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That's a bit of an overreaction. He gave this speech on his own time, right? Although, frankly, he ought to be demoted for - by his own admission - not having the qualifications for the position he holds.

Good point..

LurkerNoMore

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That's a bit of an overreaction. He gave this speech on his own time, right? Although, frankly, he ought to be demoted for - by his own admission - not having the qualifications for the position he holds.

Let's not get all factual and common sense-y ok?

Dos Equis

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That's a bit of an overreaction. He gave this speech on his own time, right? Although, frankly, he ought to be demoted for - by his own admission - not having the qualifications for the position he holds.

I understand where he's coming from.  Not trying to turn this into a religious discussion, but it's that Christian humility that acknowledges every good thing comes from above.  I just read comments by a Christian I know from Harlem who talked about all of his world travel, military and civilian success, and incredible life after growing up without a father in the hood, and how none of that would have been possible without God's grace.  You obviously don't have to agree, but that's a pretty common Christian viewpoint.  It's not any kind of acknowledgement of incompetence.  

But regarding the story, they are a bunch of hypersensitive and insecure folks to get so offended over a few comments in a speech.

Agnostic007

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I understand where he's coming from.  Not trying to turn this into a religious discussion, but it's that Christian humility that acknowledges every good thing comes from above.  I just read comments by a Christian I know from Harlem who talked about all of his world travel, military and civilian success, and incredible life after growing up without a father in the hood, and how none of that would have been possible without God's grace.  You obviously don't have to agree, but that's a pretty common Christian viewpoint.  It's not any kind of acknowledgement of incompetence.  

But regarding the story, they are a bunch of hypersensitive and insecure folks to get so offended over a few comments in a speech.

My concern, is if God were to suddenly die tomorrow, this guy might fly a complex nuclear machine into a city. You can say that God won't die, but the bumper sticker "With God, All things are possible" refutes that.  :)

Dos Equis

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My concern, is if God were to suddenly die tomorrow, this guy might fly a complex nuclear machine into a city. You can say that God won't die, but the bumper sticker "With God, All things are possible" refutes that.  :)

I guess anything is possible.   :)

avxo

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I understand where he's coming from.  Not trying to turn this into a religious discussion, but it's that Christian humility that acknowledges every good thing comes from above.  I just read comments by a Christian I know from Harlem who talked about all of his world travel, military and civilian success, and incredible life after growing up without a father in the hood, and how none of that would have been possible without God's grace.  You obviously don't have to agree, but that's a pretty common Christian viewpoint.  It's not any kind of acknowledgement of incompetence.  

But regarding the story, they are a bunch of hypersensitive and insecure folks to get so offended over a few comments in a speech.

I agree it's an overreaction. But I find this "Christian humility" stuff to be mumbo-jumbo for a number of reasons.

First, there's a difference between being humble and claiming to be worthless and completely dependent on someone else. I understand that many Christians do see themselves that way - and some flavors encourage this viewpoint - but it's still a fucked up way to see oneself.

Second, is the issue Agnostic007 brought up. If this guy is completely and utterly incapable and unqualified to do the job - which is what he admits based on a plain reading of his words, then what happens if one day he's doing something important and God is distracted?

Lastly, what is he suggesting? Well, basically that the Air Force training and evaluation programs are shit. Should that be a cause for concern? Or will God spot us there too?

LurkerNoMore

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I agree it's an overreaction. But I find this "Christian humility" stuff to be mumbo-jumbo for a number of reasons.

First, there's a difference between being humble and claiming to be worthless and completely dependent on someone else. I understand that many Christians do see themselves that way - and some flavors encourage this viewpoint - but it's still a fucked up way to see oneself.

Second, is the issue Agnostic007 brought up. If this guy is completely and utterly incapable and unqualified to do the job - which is what he admits based on a plain reading of his words, then what happens if one day he's doing something important and God is distracted?

Lastly, what is he suggesting? Well, basically that the Air Force training and evaluation programs are shit. Should that be a cause for concern? Or will God spot us there too?

Exactly.  Why train in the first place?  Just throw up a prayer and let God do the rest.

It's the same thing when people credit God with things he had no part in anyway.    You graduated from college?  Just prayed and never studied, God took your test for you.  Beat cancer?  It was God, not the doctors, technology and/or the cancer itself for going away.   Became successful?  Nothing about skill, motivation or even luck.  Just put a quarter in the collection plate and God will reward you tenfold. 

People who do this are generally insecure and have low self esteem.  They don't feel as though they are worthy enough for the credit of their own hard work or luck, so they have to offer it to someone else.

Dos Equis

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I agree it's an overreaction. But I find this "Christian humility" stuff to be mumbo-jumbo for a number of reasons.

First, there's a difference between being humble and claiming to be worthless and completely dependent on someone else. I understand that many Christians do see themselves that way - and some flavors encourage this viewpoint - but it's still a fucked up way to see oneself.

Second, is the issue Agnostic007 brought up. If this guy is completely and utterly incapable and unqualified to do the job - which is what he admits based on a plain reading of his words, then what happens if one day he's doing something important and God is distracted?

Lastly, what is he suggesting? Well, basically that the Air Force training and evaluation programs are shit. Should that be a cause for concern? Or will God spot us there too?

It's not about being completely dependent on "someone else."  It's about being completely dependent on a higher authority/being.  That's precisely what the Bible/Christianity teaches.  That doesn't mean you don't work hard, study, train, learn, and do everything in your power to try and excel (also something the Bible teaches).   

But like I said, you don't have to agree with that teaching or belief.  It's really about respecting differences.  That's what the people in the story (and many like them) are apparently incapable of doing. 

avxo

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Ahh... apologetics.

Dos Equis

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Meh.  Call it whatever you want.  I don't consider this some kind of debate.  It's just a discussion.  An exchange of ideas.  Maybe somebody reading it can learn something, or have a better appreciation for how to deal with things they disagree with. 

Skip8282

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But like I said, you don't have to agree with that teaching or belief.  It's really about respecting differences.  That's what the people in the story (and many like them) are apparently incapable of doing. 


That's exactly what religion can't seem to do.

That's why they can't leave gay people alone, that's why they can't leave a woman's body to herself.

Dos Equis

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That's exactly what religion can't seem to do.

That's why they can't leave gay people alone, that's why they can't leave a woman's body to herself.

In what way is "religion" not leaving gay people alone?  Or not leaving "a woman's body to herself"? 

Agnostic007

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3 recent situations really drive home the point to me Christians are almost mindless in their belief.

1. Friend of mine gets diagnosed with cancer Jan 12. Email and FB strings start flying, sending prayers... and they have faith god will heal him. By mid Feb he is really going down hill... More emails.. "This is the time to pray for our brother, I have faith god will heal him" stuff. End of April... he passes away.. MORE emails sending prayers for his family

2. Co-workers daughter has cancer. They spend lots of money and lots of trips to MD Anderson. Doctors treat her, she is knocked the hell down to almost nothing with Chemo... 18 months of miserable times, cancer is gone, cancer comes back... finally they get an all good test back after 10's of thousands of dollars and extensive medical treatment. His post yesterday "God is Great!"

3. Atheist friend has  cancer and through sloppy work by a doctor in the initial discovery it is allowed to spread. It's been 5 yrs , he's been on deaths door a couple times, his Christian friends feel this is a perfect time to preach god to him. He doesn't see their evidence as plausible and remains atheist. Today he is recovering and doing very well..


At what point is it ok for someone to say "Can we stop pretending prayer works for Christ sake?"   

Dos Equis

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Court: Jesus Statue Will Remain on Montana Mountain Top

Image: Court: Jesus Statue Will Remain on Montana Mountain Top 'Big Mountain Jesus' on Montana mountaintop. (AP)
By Cathy Burke   
Monday, 31 Aug 2015

A revered memorial to World War II veterans known as Big Mountain Jesus may stay atop a Montana ski resort in the Flathead National Forest, a three-judge appeals panel has ruled.

In its Monday decision, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a district court ruling allowing the 12-foot-high statue and memorial to stay on the federally owned property near Kalispell, Mont., the Christian Post reports.

While the 60-year-old statue has a religious appearance, the display's purposes are secular, the panel decided. The monument is on public land the U.S. Forest Service leases to a private organization, the Missoulian reports.

According to the Christian Post, the Madison, Wis.-based Freedom From Religion Foundation filed a lawsuit in 2012 to have Big Mountain Jesus removed, arguing the statue on public land violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution.

"The government identified secular rationales for its continued authorization including the statue's cultural and historical significance for veterans, Montanans, and tourists; the statue's inclusion in the National Register of Historic Places; and the government's intent to preserve the site 'as a historic part of the resort,'" according to the decision, posted by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty.

"Although the dissent focuses on the monument's appearance, that the statue is of a religious figure, and that some of the initial impetus for the statue's placement was religiously motivated, does not end the matter."

A lawyer for the public-interest legal and educational institute hailed the decision.

"Today’s decision rejects the idea that history and the First Amendment ought to be enemies," Eric Baxter, senior lawyer of the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, said in a statement.

"Freedom From Religion Foundation wanted to use the First Amendment to erase Big Mountain Jesus from memory, even though it is, as the Court recognized, a crucial part of the history of Montana. Thank goodness for common sense."

The statue of Jesus with his arms outstretched was erected in 1953 by a Knights of Columbus chapter to commemorate WWII vets. It was privately maintained, the Christian Post reports.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Big-Mountain-jesus-statue-remain/2015/08/31/id/672896/#ixzz3kVVD0Mz2

Dos Equis

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Paranoid anti-religious extremists hard at work again.

Bremerton football coach investigated for post-game prayers
Drew Mikkelsen and Heather Graf, KING 5 News
September 15, 2015

(Photo: Heather Graf / KING)

BREMERTON, Wash. -- The Bremerton School District is investigating a football coach for praying after high school football games.  District policy states "school staff shall neither encourage nor discourage" students from praying.

Bremerton High School assistant football coach Joe Kennedy, who is still coaching, said he always prays after games on the 50-yard line.  He said sometimes he's alone, sometimes players join him.

"I never asked anyone," Kennedy said.  "They just all showed up one day and the next thing I know, the other team was showing up with us."

KING 5 spoke to Kennedy at Monday's JV football game,  He's the assistant head coach for Bremerton High's varsity team and the head coach for the JV squad.  After Monday's game, Kennedy still prayed on the field, and a large crowd made up of players and parents from both Bremerton and its opponent took part.

"I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps, and it's been about protecting the freedom of other people," he said.  "It's about the freedom, and people can believe whatever they want.  I'm just exercising my right.  The game is over, and I just thank god for every one of these young men that are out here."

It's not yet clear what promoted the district investigation, but many in the stands at Monday's game assumed it came as the result of a complaint or concern about the separation of church and state.

"It's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion," said Bill Bailey, who was actually cheering for Bremerton's opponent to win the game, but says he supports Kennedy's post-game prayers completely.  "If they don't like it, they don't have to participate."

The district would not comment on the ongoing investigation, except to say that Coach Kennedy has not been fired or placed on administrative leave.  News of the investigation spread online over the weekend, sparking protest on a Facebook page called "Support Joe Kennedy."

Kennedy told KING 5 he's not worried about losing his job. Instead, his team remains his top priority.

"I don't really worry about all that nonsense," he said.  "The only thing I worry about is the kids. It's not about what my beliefs are, it's about believing in each other.  It's about the sport that we love."

Parents in the stands on Monday told KING 5 they've watched Kennedy pray after every game for years.  Some  didn't seem to understand why it's all of a sudden become an issue.

"Maybe there are some people who don't go to church and don't want their kid exposed to it, but you can't stop it for everyone," said Wanda Stone.  "He doesn't tell the kids that if they don't come out and pray they're not going to play.  The kids are voluntarily going out there."

A rally in support of Coach Kennedy is planned for Friday - the day Bremerton High School's varsity team takes the field.

The prayer Kennedy prayed after Monday's game lasted only about 13 seconds.

"Lord, I just want to lift up all these warriors that came out here to compete today," he prayed.  "I don't care what their beliefs are.  We do believe in this sport.  We believe in football, we believe in a team and competition.  It's all about the game.  In your name, Amen."

Many who bowed their heads with him also said "Amen" and cheered when he finished praying.

District policy states that staff members can't encourage or discrouage a student from engaging in non-disruptive oral or silent prayer.  So there's nothing wrong with students or student athletes praying, it's just a question of what role the teacher or coach is playing in that prayer.  It appears that is what the district investigation will try to determine.

It's not yet clear when that investigation will be complete.

http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/bremerton/2015/09/14/bremerton-football-coach-investigated-post-game-prayers/72281698/

Dos Equis

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Waaaah!

'God bless the military' sign on Hawaii base is questioned
By Rob Shikina
Sep 24, 2015


MILITARY RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FOUNDATION
Twenty-three Marines have complained to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation about this sign at Marine Corps Base Hawaii in Kaneohe, claiming it violates the First Amendment.

A mainland watchdog group is crying foul over a “God bless the military” sign on the Marine base in Kaneohe, claiming the display violates the U.S. Constitution.

Military Religious Freedom Foundation sent an email Thursday to Col. Sean Killeen, commanding officer of Marine Corps Base Hawaii, asking that the sign be moved to the chapel grounds or removed.

The advocacy group alleges the sign is a “brazen violation” of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, which forbids the government from promoting one religion over another.

The group’s email said the sign “sends the clear message that your installation gives preference to those who hold religious beliefs over those who do not.”

The sign, located on a road leading to the marina, reads in full: “God bless the military, their families, and the civilians who work with them.”

MRFF is a nonproft with a mission of protecting the religious freedom of U.S. military members.

MRFF’s founder, Mikey Weinstein, said by phone from New Mexico on Thursday that 23 Marines, from the ranks of the enlisted to officers, have complained about the sign to his organization over the past two weeks.

He said the sign stands out “like a tarantula on a wedding cake” on the small base.

He said the Marines — 21 of whom are Protestant — have not used the chain of command to lodge a complaint because they fear reprisal.

Capt. Tim Irish, spokesman for Marine Corps Base Hawaii, said the commanding officer received an emailed complaint about the sign and ordered his staff to research the sign’s origin and its compliance with existing regulations.

He said the Base Inspector’s Office is also investigating whether there have been complaints in the past about the sign, which may have been there for years.

“MCBH will exercise due diligence to ensure compliance with existing regulations and law, including theEstablishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution,” he said in an email.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20150924_God_bless_the_military_sign_on_Hawaii_base_is_questioned.html?id=329414241

Dos Equis

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The ACLU really needs to learn how to pick its battles.

School district fights ACLU, vows to keep saying ‘God bless you’
By  Todd Starnes  
Published October 02, 2015
FoxNews.com
 
The American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana has launched a full-scale assault on Airline High School after the principal wrote the words, “May God Bless You All” in a message posted on the school’s website.

“The Future Starts Today – May God Bless You All,” wrote Principal Jason Rowland in September.

The ACLU also complained about plans by the school’s Fellowship of Christian Athletes to place prayer request boxes around the campus.

Pastor Fream said it’s time for the community to stand together and send a message to the ACLU.

That was all the evidence the ACLU needed to accuse Bossier Parish Schools of engaging “in a pattern of religious proselytization.”  

“There is no question that the principal has violated these legal mandates by invoking God, prayer and Christianity in school publications and on school grounds,” Louisiana ACLU Executive Director Marjorie Esman wrote in a letter published by the Shreveport Times. “This unlawful religious coercion is improper from any school employee but it is particularly egregious coming from the school principal, whose job is to teach and uphold, rather than violate, the legal rights of all.”

They allege the principal broke the law with his online message. And they allege the students broke the law by placing “prayer boxes” around the campus.

“Immediately remove all references to prayer from the website of Airline and any other schools in the Bossier Parish school district,” wrote Marjorie Esman, the executive director of the ACLU in Louisiana. “Immediately remove the ‘prayer boxes’ and any similar devices at Airline and another other schools in the Bossier Parish school district.”

On Thursday night the school board issued a statement telling the ACLU they don't plan on losing their religion. They determined nothing improper happened at the high school.

“The Bossier Parish School Board is committed to honoring the state and federal law as it relates to the rights of all students, regardless of their religious beliefs,” read a statement provided to the Shreveport Times.

“The Board and its administration welcome meaningful discussion of this and any issue but will base their decision on the law and facts as they know them to exist. Decisions in the best interest of our students can never result from threats and intimidation.”

The school board also issued a resolution which said U.S. history is built on “freedom of religion, not freedom from religion," the newspaper reported.

Supporters blasted the ACLU's attempt to bully the principal and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

“It is a campaign of fear, intimidation and misinformation,” State Rep. Mike Johnson told me. “This is standard practice for the ACLU. What they hope will happen is they make these radical demands and the school board will bow to the pressure.”

Johnson, who is also the chief counsel for the law firm Freedom Guard, said the ACLU has picked the wrong community to attack.

“This is a very conservative area,” he said. “The ACLU picked the wrong sleeping giant this time.”

Thousands of local citizens have mobilized in defense of the school district and a rally has been scheduled for this coming weekend.

“It’s really hit a nerve,” Johnson said. “People have had enough.”

He accused the ACLU of “trolling” – looking for a school district to attack.

“They’ve never even been to this school,” he said. “They literally are trolling the Internet looking for things to be offended by. They are on a search and destroy mission for all things Christian.”

Among those defending the principal is John Fream, the pastor of Cypress Baptist Church. Principal Rowland is a member of the church and teaches Sunday School.

“We all have rights – even Christians,” Pastor Fream told me. “We want our kids to know they have rights. Our kids can pray in school. They can put out prayer boxes.”

Pastor Fream said it’s time for the community to stand together and send a message to the ACLU.

“We don’t hate the ACLU,” he said. “We are just for our Christian beliefs.”

It’s about time that someone stands up to these bullies – and I can’t think of a better place than Bossier Parish.

The ACLU has a predilection for attacking Christians that borders on the bizarre.  Maybe they should consider a name change to reflect their disdain for people of faith.

How about the Anti-Christian Liberals Union?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/10/02/aclu-says-god-bless-is-illegal.html?intcmp=hplnws

Agnostic007

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The principal really needs to learn to keep his personal belief in a god or gods to himself. 

Dos Equis

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Or he can just express himself like the typical American, who isn't required to sanitize all of his or her expression of any references to God or religion.  That's not what the First Amendment was designed to prevent.   

Agnostic007

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Or he can just express himself like the typical American, who isn't required to sanitize all of his or her expression of any references to God or religion.  That's not what the First Amendment was designed to prevent.   

At his home, or away from the job, feel free. But as the principal of the school, when acting as an official from the school, he needs to leave his personal beliefs regarding religion out of it.   

Agnostic007

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At his home, or away from the job, feel free. But as the principal of the school, when acting as an official from the school, he needs to leave his personal beliefs regarding religion out of it.   

Guarantee you had he said "Praise Allah" there would be an uproar from the community. It has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with separating church and state