Author Topic: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?  (Read 19077 times)

headhuntersix

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What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« on: May 08, 2014, 07:19:36 AM »
http://oversight.house.gov/release/bipartisan-house-vote-finds-irs-targeting-scandal-figure-lois-lerner-criminal-contempt/

The juicy bits for those concerned...please remember Libs..u won't always be in charge so this shit is bad all thee way around.

To preempt the release of an independent investigation, Ms. Lerner publicly admitted that the IRS division she led had targeted conservatives. After waiving her right to protection from self-incrimination, Lerner had a choice: testify fully and truthfully about what occurred or face criminal contempt. Ms. Lerner refused to testify even after her attorney told Congress she would do so.
“Unless the President decides to assert executive privilege, there is no precedent for the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia to do anything but pursue this criminal case. Absent political interference by the Administration, this legally binding action – as well as a separate resolution calling for a special prosecutor to take over the Main Justice Department’s tainted and dormant investigation – require the Justice Department to take action.”



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Dos Equis

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2014, 09:41:35 AM »
Outstanding.  These people need to be held accountable.

Straw Man

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2014, 10:15:05 AM »
nothing will happen because the US Attorney won't prosecute because Lerner did not commit contempt and legally invoked the 5th amendment

but, Repubs will accomplish their goal of having another phony scandal to talk about on the campaign trail


GigantorX

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 12:43:51 PM »
nothing will happen because the US Attorney won't prosecute because Lerner did not commit contempt and legally invoked the 5th amendment

but, Repubs will accomplish their goal of having another phony scandal to talk about on the campaign trail

Sure she invoked it....after she had already begun making statements related to the case.

Dos Equis

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 12:47:43 PM »
Sure she invoked it....after she had already begun making statements related to the case.

Right.  Absolved herself of wrongdoing, then took the Fifth.  I think she waived it. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 12:52:26 PM »
Sure she invoked it....after she had already begun making statements related to the case.

bingo - you are not even a lawyer and get it. 

Straw Man

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 01:23:09 PM »
she didn't waive it by merely claiming she was innocent and that's why the US Attorney won't pursue it

This guy sums it up pretty succinctly
http://www.kflaw.com/siteFiles/News/1DC7C45B6F0434A0491138F00A952BFD.pdf

even the right wing Heritage blog is doubtful
http://blog.heritage.org/2013/05/24/did-the-irss-lois-lerner-waive-her-fifth-amendment-rights/

Keep in mind that Issa has all of her emails and if he really wanted her to testify he would just give her immunity
He doesn't want to do that because he knows already that he will find no wrongdoing and then they will have to give up on this "controversy" and need to go find a new one that they can wail and moan about on the campaign trail

Soul Crusher

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 01:28:14 PM »
She is finished - now its time for the plea deal and her to spill the beans on ofag

Straw Man

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2014, 01:30:01 PM »
She is finished - now its time for the plea deal and her to spill the beans on ofag

don't quit your day job - whatever that actually is

it certainly can't be an attorney

headhuntersix

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 01:45:18 PM »
Come on straw...whether she waived it or not is all legal bullshit but the bigger question is...is there something there. U have 10% of tea party members being audited. The dam IRS doesn't audit 10 groups that much. I could drive through IRS HQ blowing $100's from a leaf blower and they wouldn't question it.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2014, 01:54:48 PM »
I think she waived it by my understanding of the law. 

headhuntersix

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 01:59:34 PM »
Its easily an arguable point. But its not the overarching thing here. Did a governmental body target private citizens to aid a political party or political campaign and then where they ordered to do it and by whom. Was it the WH...that gives u an impeachable offensive. Or was there a climate of pervasive anti-tea party/ anti conservative feelings by people appointed by the admin  who felt they were doing the bidding of Obama without a direct order.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2014, 02:03:03 PM »
Its easily an arguable point. But its not the overarching thing here. Did a governmental body target private citizens to aid a political party or political campaign and then where they ordered to do it and by whom. Was it the WH...that gives u an impeachable offensive. Or was there a climate of pervasive anti-tea party/ anti conservative feelings by people appointed by the admin  who felt they were doing the bidding of Obama without a direct order.

Im sure it was a directive from Jarret after the 2010 disaster.   

Dos Equis

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2014, 02:24:52 PM »
Its easily an arguable point. But its not the overarching thing here. Did a governmental body target private citizens to aid a political party or political campaign and then where they ordered to do it and by whom. Was it the WH...that gives u an impeachable offensive. Or was there a climate of pervasive anti-tea party/ anti conservative feelings by people appointed by the admin  who felt they were doing the bidding of Obama without a direct order.

I'm sure there is plausible deniability regarding the president, but these things don't happen in a vacuum.  Some staff member was involved, either directly or indirectly.  I doubt there is a smoking gun, but this didn't originate in some local IRS office. 

Straw Man

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2014, 03:08:12 PM »
Come on straw...whether she waived it or not is all legal bullshit but the bigger question is...is there something there. U have 10% of tea party members being audited. The dam IRS doesn't audit 10 groups that much. I could drive through IRS HQ blowing $100's from a leaf blower and they wouldn't question it.

If Issa really wanted to investigate he would simply offer her immunity

He is not doing this because he already has all the information and knows there was nothing improper and then this scandal goes away

His motivation is not to investigate but to keep this scandal alive so they can use it as political fodder in the elections

BTW - the larger issue is the discrepancy in how the law was written by Congress vs. the IRS redefining a law (do they have that power)

The IRS must (as mandated by both the law and even their own rule) to determine whether political groups actually qualify for tax exempt status

Also keep in mind that no right wing group was even denied tax exempt status so all the IRS did was look at them and said essentially "you're fine...move along"

that's your entire "scandal"

Here the law written by Congress and then the rule written by the IRS

The current version of the Revenue Act of 1913 provides a tax exemption for:
26 U.S.C. § 501(c)(4)(A)

Civil leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.


Then in 1959 the IRS redefined the term "promotion of social welfare" to depart radically from the statute:
Treas. Reg. § 1.501(c)(4)-1(a)(2)(i)


[a]n organization is operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare if it is primarily engaged in promoting in some way the common good and general welfare of the people of the community. An organization embraced within this section is one which is operated primarily for the purpose of bringing about civic betterments and social improvements.

headhuntersix

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2014, 03:47:56 PM »
If Issa really wanted to investigate he would simply offer her immunity

He is not doing this because he already has all the information and knows there was nothing improper and then this scandal goes away

His motivation is not to investigate but to keep this scandal alive so they can use it as political fodder in the elections

BTW - the larger issue is the discrepancy in how the law was written by Congress vs. the IRS redefining a law (do they have that power)

The IRS must (as mandated by both the law and even their own rule) to determine whether political groups actually qualify for tax exempt status

Also keep in mind that no right wing group was even denied tax exempt status so all the IRS did was look at them and said essentially "you're fine...move along"

that's your entire "scandal"

Here the law written by Congress and then the rule written by the IRS

The current version of the Revenue Act of 1913 provides a tax exemption for:
26 U.S.C. § 501(c)(4)(A)

Civil leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.


Then in 1959 the IRS redefined the term "promotion of social welfare" to depart radically from the statute:
Treas. Reg. § 1.501(c)(4)-1(a)(2)(i)


[a]n organization is operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare if it is primarily engaged in promoting in some way the common good and general welfare of the people of the community. An organization embraced within this section is one which is operated primarily for the purpose of bringing about civic betterments and social improvements.


He needs to offer her that....
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Straw Man

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2014, 03:52:54 PM »

He needs to offer her that....

He won't because it would make this "scandal" go away and that's the last thing he wants

If he really knew (or even thought) this went beyond a few people at the IRS just doing their jobs it would make total sense for him to offer her immunity but since he knows that is not the case he has no motivation to do that because this "scandal" would dry up and blow away in a matter of days

2Thick

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2014, 04:01:37 PM »
Nothing will happen to her because Holder and his flunkies under him won't do anything to her. She was already talking to the AG before her testimony. She won't need immunity or a deal because the AG won't do anything. He's Obama's buddy, and none of the Obama admin's crimes will be punished by LE - because Holder is the top LE officer in the land, unfortunately.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2014, 01:41:56 PM »
Sarah Swinehart (202) 226-4774 


       
IRS Claims to Have Lost Over 2 Years of Lerner Emails




f t # e

 
 Washington, Jun 13 | 1 comments


Washington, DC – Today, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-MI) issued the following statement regarding the Internal Revenue Service informing the Committee that they have lost Lois Lerner emails from a period of January 2009 – April 2011.  Due to a supposed computer crash, the agency only has Lerner emails to and from other IRS employees during this time frame.  The IRS claims it cannot produce emails written only to or from Lerner and outside agencies or groups, such as the White House, Treasury, Department of Justice, FEC, or Democrat offices.

“The fact that I am just learning about this, over a year into the investigation, is completely unacceptable and now calls into question the credibility of the IRS’s response to Congressional inquiries.  There needs to be an immediate investigation and forensic audit by Department of Justice as well as the Inspector General. 

“Just a short time ago, Commissioner Koskinen promised to produce all Lerner documents.  It appears now that was an empty promise.  Frankly, these are the critical years of the targeting of conservative groups that could explain who knew what when, and what, if any, coordination there was between agencies.  Instead, because of this loss of documents, we are conveniently left to believe that Lois Lerner acted alone.  This failure of the IRS requires the White House, which promised to get to the bottom of this, to do an Administration-wide search and production of any emails to or from Lois Lerner.  The Administration has repeatedly referred us back to the IRS for production of materials.  It is clear that is wholly insufficient when it comes to determining the full scope of the violation of taxpayer rights.”

Oversight Subcommittee Chairman Charles Boustany Jr., M.D. (R-LA) added, "In the course of the Committee's investigation, the Administration repeatedly claimed we were getting access to all relevant IRS documents. Only now - thirteen months into the investigation - the IRS reveals that key emails from the time of the targeting have been lost.  And they bury that fact deep in an unrelated letter on a Friday afternoon.  In that same letter, they urge Congress to end the investigations into IRS wrongdoing. This is not the transparency promised to the American people.  If there is no smidgeon of corruption what is the Administration hiding?"


 

flipper5470

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2014, 07:58:01 PM »
It's a cover up, plain and simple.   Why offer her immunity...she's going to lie either way.

Kazan

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2014, 09:16:33 PM »
Sarah Swinehart (202) 226-4774 


       
IRS Claims to Have Lost Over 2 Years of Lerner Emails




f t # e

 
 Washington, Jun 13 | 1 comments


Washington, DC – Today, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-MI) issued the following statement regarding the Internal Revenue Service informing the Committee that they have lost Lois Lerner emails from a period of January 2009 – April 2011.  Due to a supposed computer crash, the agency only has Lerner emails to and from other IRS employees during this time frame.  The IRS claims it cannot produce emails written only to or from Lerner and outside agencies or groups, such as the White House, Treasury, Department of Justice, FEC, or Democrat offices.

“The fact that I am just learning about this, over a year into the investigation, is completely unacceptable and now calls into question the credibility of the IRS’s response to Congressional inquiries.  There needs to be an immediate investigation and forensic audit by Department of Justice as well as the Inspector General. 

“Just a short time ago, Commissioner Koskinen promised to produce all Lerner documents.  It appears now that was an empty promise.  Frankly, these are the critical years of the targeting of conservative groups that could explain who knew what when, and what, if any, coordination there was between agencies.  Instead, because of this loss of documents, we are conveniently left to believe that Lois Lerner acted alone.  This failure of the IRS requires the White House, which promised to get to the bottom of this, to do an Administration-wide search and production of any emails to or from Lois Lerner.  The Administration has repeatedly referred us back to the IRS for production of materials.  It is clear that is wholly insufficient when it comes to determining the full scope of the violation of taxpayer rights.”

Oversight Subcommittee Chairman Charles Boustany Jr., M.D. (R-LA) added, "In the course of the Committee's investigation, the Administration repeatedly claimed we were getting access to all relevant IRS documents. Only now - thirteen months into the investigation - the IRS reveals that key emails from the time of the targeting have been lost.  And they bury that fact deep in an unrelated letter on a Friday afternoon.  In that same letter, they urge Congress to end the investigations into IRS wrongdoing. This is not the transparency promised to the American people.  If there is no smidgeon of corruption what is the Administration hiding?"


 


Yeah bullshit, if my company tried to pull that shit someone would be headed for jail. You don't loose email..........
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Vince G, CSN MFT

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2014, 08:38:51 AM »
http://oversight.house.gov/release/bipartisan-house-vote-finds-irs-targeting-scandal-figure-lois-lerner-criminal-contempt/

The juicy bits for those concerned...please remember Libs..u won't always be in charge so this shit is bad all thee way around.

To preempt the release of an independent investigation, Ms. Lerner publicly admitted that the IRS division she led had targeted conservatives. After waiving her right to protection from self-incrimination, Lerner had a choice: testify fully and truthfully about what occurred or face criminal contempt. Ms. Lerner refused to testify even after her attorney told Congress she would do so.
“Unless the President decides to assert executive privilege, there is no precedent for the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia to do anything but pursue this criminal case. Absent political interference by the Administration, this legally binding action – as well as a separate resolution calling for a special prosecutor to take over the Main Justice Department’s tainted and dormant investigation – require the Justice Department to take action.”






Nothing is going to happen to her.  She resigned meaning that she has no obligation to speak with the House or Senate anymore.  Even so, Obama would grant her a pardon ala Scooter Libby
A

Kazan

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2014, 08:42:27 AM »

Nothing is going to happen to her.  She resigned meaning that she has no obligation to speak with the House or Senate anymore.  Even so, Obama would grant her a pardon ala Scooter Libby

She resigns so she is absolved of all wrong doing? What fucked up world do you live in?
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chadstallion

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Re: What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2014, 02:10:14 PM »
nothing will happen because the US Attorney won't prosecute because Lerner did not commit contempt and legally invoked the 5th amendment

but, Repubs will accomplish their goal of having another phony scandal to talk about on the campaign trail
well played, Lois!
something right out of Dick Nixon's 'lost' 18 minutes of tapes.
w