Author Topic: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death  (Read 54696 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #150 on: August 08, 2014, 10:13:21 AM »
You don't sympathize with career criminals even when they're extrajudicially killed on the street? 

Then you flat out aren't a good and moral person.

Really?   ::)  I am trying to restrain my rhetoric here.  I did not say that, but you have a proven habit of just making stuff up.  But I get it.  You're not sophisticated enough to read and comprehend statements, so you restate and contort them so they fit within your own twisted outlook.  It's ok.  Nobody is perfect. 

RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #151 on: August 08, 2014, 10:29:19 AM »
Really?   ::)  I am trying to restrain my rhetoric here.  I did not say that, but you have a proven habit of just making stuff up.  But I get it.  You're not sophisticated enough to read and comprehend statements, so you restate and contort them so they fit within your own twisted outlook.  It's ok.  Nobody is perfect. 

Whoa, Nelly!  Who's having reading comprehension probs here again? 

Surely you noticed my post began with a question, right?  And please notice that my statement about you being a bad person was conditional.  --- In other words, if it's not true that you don't/can't sympathize with a career criminal when he gets killed extrajudicially then you are NOT a bad person.

I'm not up for an hours-long war with ya today;  I'm in too good of a mood -- My wife and I just finished making all our hotel reservations for a month-long vacation in Thailand in November.  -- Pretty good for you, too, right?  --- You'll likely get a long break from my posts then, lol.


Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #152 on: August 08, 2014, 10:35:19 AM »
Whoa, Nelly!  Who's having reading comprehension probs here again? 

Surely you noticed my post began with a question, right?  And please notice that my statement about you being a bad person was conditional.  --- In other words, if it's not true that you don't/can't sympathize with a career criminal when he gets killed extrajudicially then you are NOT a bad person.

I'm not up for an hours-long war with ya today;  I'm in too good of a mood -- My wife and I just finished making all our hotel reservations for a month-long vacation in Thailand in November.  -- Pretty good for you, too, right?  --- You'll likely get a long break from my posts then, lol.



I didn't say a word about condoning "extrajudicial" killing of someone on the street.  Of course I don't condone that.  How the heck did you attribute that kind of nonsense to me?? 

It's good that you are in a good mood today.  Welcome to my world.  I feel outstanding every single day.   :)  Good for you and your wife.  Hope you have a great time.  I live on island, so that whole vacation thing is a little overrated.   :)

24KT

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #153 on: August 08, 2014, 12:06:28 PM »
Whoa, Nelly!  Who's having reading comprehension probs here again? 

Surely you noticed my post began with a question, right?  And please notice that my statement about you being a bad person was conditional.  --- In other words, if it's not true that you don't/can't sympathize with a career criminal when he gets killed extrajudicially then you are NOT a bad person.

I'm not up for an hours-long war with ya today;  I'm in too good of a mood -- My wife and I just finished making all our hotel reservations for a month-long vacation in Thailand in November.  -- Pretty good for you, too, right?  --- You'll likely get a long break from my posts then, lol.


Have a blast in Thailand!!! Enjoy some Tai Dop voy for me. I'm salivating just thinking about it.  :P

Infact, ...I'm gonna go make myself a late lunch... fettuccine noodles lightly tossed in a peanut & ginger thai sauce with a hint of buttermilk peppercorn ranch, freshly chopped parsley & scallions. Sawasdee Ka! :)
w

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #154 on: December 03, 2014, 11:54:26 AM »
No indictment for NYPD cop in chokehold death of unarmed man, source says
Published December 03, 2014
FoxNews.com

DEVELOPING: A Staten Island grand jury Wednesday has declined to indict the New York City police officer in connection with the July chokehold death of an unarmed man, a source tells Fox News.

Eric Garner was stopped on suspicion of selling loose cigarettes in July. The black Staten Island man is shown on video telling officers to leave him alone before Officer Daniel Pantaleo used what appeared to be a banned chokehold.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/03/no-indictment-for-nypd-cop-in-chokehold-death-unarmed-man-source-says/

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #155 on: December 03, 2014, 12:00:41 PM »
I'm sure Al Sharpton will be all over this one. 

NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand jury
‘Oh my God, are you serious?’ Garner’s widow, Esaw Garner, told The Daily News about the grand jury’s decision not to charge Officer Daniel Pantaleo. ‘You can see in the video that he (the cop) was dead wrong!’ There had been warnings earlier that a decision not to indict the white policeman with a crime for killing a black man would fan tensions.

BY TINA MOORE , THOMAS TRACY , ROCCO PARASCANDOLA , CORKY SIEMASZKO 
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Published: Wednesday, December 3, 2014

Eric Garner’s widow reacted with dismay Wednesday after a Staten Island grand jury chose not to indict the NYPD officer who killed her husband with a chokehold.

“Oh my God, are you serious?” Esaw Garner, her voice rising in shock and anger, told The Daily News. “I’m very disappointed. You can see in the video that he (the cop) was dead wrong!”

Garner was referring to the shocking cellphone video first published on NYDailyNews.com that showed Officer Daniel Pantaleo placing Garner in a chokehold — a move banned by the NYPD — and wrestling him to the ground.

“The grand jury kept interviewing witnesses but you didn't need witnesses,” the anguished widow said. “You can be a witness for yourself. Oh my God, this s--- is crazy.”

Esaw Garner said she is now placing her hopes for justice with the U.S. Department of Justice.

“Well, I guess I have to go with the next step,” she said.

Then Esaw Garner left for the offices of the National Action Network in Manhattan, where she was expected to make a further statement alongside the Rev. Al Sharpton.

Meanwhile, Staten Island was bracing for Ferguson-like trouble. There had been warnings earlier that a decision not to charge Pantaleo, who is white, with a crime for killing a black man, would fan tensions.

And as word of the panel’s decision seeped into the Staten Island neighborhoods where anti-police sentiment is strongest, cops were on high alert and prepared for the worst.

“How can anyone in the community have faith in the system now?” asked Vincent Warren, head of the Center for Constitutional Rights. “First Ferguson, now Staten Island.”

Garner, a 43-year-old father of six, was killed July 17 when Pantaleo subdued him on a Tompkinsville street with a banned chokehold.

Police said they approached Garner because he was selling unlicensed cigarettes —better known as loosies —and that he resisted arrest.

They noted that Garner’s rap sheet listed 31 arrests, beginning when he was 16.

But Garner’s death sparked national outrage after the video of his deadly encounter with police was obtained by The Daily News.

It later drew comparisons to Ferguson, Mo., where another black man — unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown — was killed in August by another white cop. And there was mayhem in that Missouri town last week when a local grand jury declined to indict Officer Darren Wilson.

Pantaleo, who had been accused of false arrest and violating police procedures in two previous lawsuits, was yanked off the street.

The Staten Island district attorney and the Civilian Complaint Review Board launched probes. And the medical examiner’s office ruled Garner’s death a homicide.

But after several months of reviewing the evidence, a majority on the panel, which sources said consisted of 15 white and 8 black or Hispanic jurors, concluded there was not enough there to charge Pantaleo with manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide.

Pantaleo, 29, an eight-year veteran of the force, could still be hit with departmental charges that could end his career as a New York City police officer.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-eric-garner-chokehold-death-not-indicted-article-1.2031841

Soul Crusher

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #156 on: December 03, 2014, 12:02:27 PM »
Here we go - Andre getting XMas come early tonight! 

andreisdaman

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #157 on: December 03, 2014, 12:06:05 PM »
Here we go - Andre getting XMas come early tonight! 

Even an incredible idiot like you can admit the cops killed the guy for no reason

Soul Crusher

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #158 on: December 03, 2014, 12:07:54 PM »
Even an incredible idiot like you can admit the cops killed the guy for no reason

They had a reason - just that you didn't like it.    ;)

andreisdaman

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #159 on: December 03, 2014, 12:09:43 PM »
They had a reason - just that you didn't like it.    ;)


yes because he was black...the same you reason why you liked that he was killed

Soul Crusher

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #160 on: December 03, 2014, 12:10:42 PM »

yes because he was black...the same you reason why you liked that he was killed

This particular case I find troubling. 

Ferguson was and is clear as day.   

andreisdaman

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #161 on: December 03, 2014, 01:04:34 PM »
This particular case I find troubling. 

Ferguson was and is clear as day.   

well at least you find it troubling...but thats because there was video tape of the incident.......when theres no tape then the officer's word is king

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #162 on: December 03, 2014, 01:12:18 PM »
They had a reason - just that you didn't like it.    ;)

they used an illegal move because they considered him to be an a-hole.

not because of his skin color.   and not because they were following procedure (they weren't) and because they were being good cops (not the case either).

Nobody deserves to be killed for squirming.  MAYBE he can use that illegal move if it's self-defense, life/death and cop about to lose it (just like the shoot inside the car was legal for wilson).   But this NYC dude was unarmed against FIVE and the cop chose to use an illegal move.  No indictment, I get it, but he shouldnt be back on the street tomorrow.  Move him to an office permanently... IMO, once you kill a dude against procedure, you should hold down a desk from that point fwd. 

headhuntersix

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #163 on: December 03, 2014, 01:26:15 PM »
This particular case I find troubling. 

Ferguson was and is clear as day.   

Agree completely....what the fuck was this. A goddam misdemeanor at best. I'd have to have a cop explain  while a take down was necessary. No issue with a choke hold but to use force at all. Brown deserved all a5 rounds...this guy should have gotten a 150 buck fine
L

Agnostic007

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #164 on: December 03, 2014, 01:45:44 PM »
I watched the video a couple times. I'm certain the Grand Jury, made up of citizens from that area probably saw it a 100 times as well as interviewed witnesses. They probably had guidelines and criteria that had to be met in order to indict the officer. Apparently they felt the threshold wasn't met. They weren't ruling on whether the officer used an "illegal" choke hold. (Choke holds aren't illegal, they are unauthrorized by the department if I am not mistaken)

They probably had to answer a question like "Was that officers actions so far out of the box of reasonableness that a person would have known that it would likely cause death?" Then they would likely have to deal with the issue of did it actually cause the death. Having the subject speaking well after the choke hold was released probably made that a bit difficult to prove in a court of law.

We can argue all day about if we thought the use of force was excessive, appropriate, or even if the cops should have been in the area that day.. but the Grand Jury probably had specific questions guided by law that had to be answered before they could indict.   
 

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #165 on: December 03, 2014, 01:49:51 PM »
I watched the video a couple times. I'm certain the Grand Jury, made up of citizens from that area probably saw it a 100 times as well as interviewed witnesses. They probably had guidelines and criteria that had to be met in order to indict the officer. Apparently they felt the threshold wasn't met. They weren't ruling on whether the officer used an "illegal" choke hold. (Choke holds aren't illegal, they are unauthrorized by the department if I am not mistaken)

They probably had to answer a question like "Was that officers actions so far out of the box of reasonableness that a person would have known that it would likely cause death?" Then they would likely have to deal with the issue of did it actually cause the death. Having the subject speaking well after the choke hold was released probably made that a bit difficult to prove in a court of law.

We can argue all day about if we thought the use of force was excessive, appropriate, or even if the cops should have been in the area that day.. but the Grand Jury probably had specific questions guided by law that had to be answered before they could indict.   
 

Thanks for this info.  I haven't really followed this at all, so wasn't sure what I thought about the result.  Still don't, but this helps. 

Agnostic007

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #166 on: December 03, 2014, 01:53:55 PM »
Thanks for this info.  I haven't really followed this at all, so wasn't sure what I thought about the result.  Still don't, but this helps. 

LOL

Dos Equis

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Agnostic007

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #168 on: December 03, 2014, 02:24:45 PM »
???

Sorry, was thinking of a conversation I had with a friend a couple days ago where he basically said he was waiting for O'Reilly to talk about the issue before he formed his opinion. You're comment was close to that but with a different and better meaning. I was half expecting you to say ... "I didn't know what to think about it but now I do".. The fact you said "still don't" was refreshing and funny to me 

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #169 on: December 03, 2014, 02:32:49 PM »
Sorry, was thinking of a conversation I had with a friend a couple days ago where he basically said he was waiting for O'Reilly to talk about the issue before he formed his opinion. You're comment was close to that but with a different and better meaning. I was half expecting you to say ... "I didn't know what to think about it but now I do".. The fact you said "still don't" was refreshing and funny to me  

Understood.  I usually wait till I hear the facts before forming an opinion.  I haven't heard all of them, but was interesting to hear you say a choke hold is not authorized, but not illegal.  Hadn't looked at it that way.  

Agnostic007

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #170 on: December 03, 2014, 02:50:51 PM »
Understood.  I usually wait till I hear the facts before forming an opinion.  I haven't heard all of them, but was interesting to hear you say a choke hold is not authorized, but not illegal.  Hadn't looked at it that way.  

In the course of my career I've done very similar takedowns, similar as in wrapping my arm around the neck and pulling the subject to the ground. Where the head goes, the body follows is an old adage we were taught. I've even held my arm around the neck area in what might appear to be a choke hold but was in fact just me holding his head while my partner(s) handcuffed. No air or blood was being blocked off. Choke holds haven't been authorized since I started and I've never choked anyone out. From what I could see, the officers hold could have been construed as a true choke hold and in that case, the department could and should administratively discipline him if that is the case. Choke holds were banned due to the fear of causing serious brain damage if the blood is cut off too long. Typically that is holding it in place after the person passes out due to adrenaline of the person applying it. In this case, I saw that if it were a true choke hold, it was released prior to the person passing out. It would likely be a mitigating factor. If the officer says that he initially grabbed the guy around the neck to bring him down, which is very common, then realized he had him in a choke hold and released it as soon as he realized it, it could have an impact on the amount of discipline if any.      

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #171 on: December 03, 2014, 03:02:16 PM »
In the course of my career I've done very similar takedowns, similar as in wrapping my arm around the neck and pulling the subject to the ground. Where the head goes, the body follows is an old adage we were taught. I've even held my arm around the neck area in what might appear to be a choke hold but was in fact just me holding his head while my partner(s) handcuffed. No air or blood was being blocked off. Choke holds haven't been authorized since I started and I've never choked anyone out. From what I could see, the officers hold could have been construed as a true choke hold and in that case, the department could and should administratively discipline him if that is the case. Choke holds were banned due to the fear of causing serious brain damage if the blood is cut off too long. Typically that is holding it in place after the person passes out due to adrenaline of the person applying it. In this case, I saw that if it were a true choke hold, it was released prior to the person passing out. It would likely be a mitigating factor. If the officer says that he initially grabbed the guy around the neck to bring him down, which is very common, then realized he had him in a choke hold and released it as soon as he realized it, it could have an impact on the amount of discipline if any.      

I didn't realize they guy was talking after the choke hold was released.

andreisdaman

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #172 on: December 03, 2014, 05:57:32 PM »
I didn't realize they guy was talking after the choke hold was released.

he had asthma....once his airway is closed its hard to open it up again without an airpump

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #173 on: December 03, 2014, 08:42:23 PM »
sounds like this cop is the kind of prick that will use very heavy-handed force, when not absolutely necessary.

With 5 cops against this fat slob, they had many options.    This cop was a total jerk.  Maybe we can justify it, but it's a real stretch.  NONE of us would want to receive a chokehold for the same thing. 


didnt the cop lie, until the video showed it?  Lock him up for that.  Should be a HUGE felony to lie on a police document

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #174 on: December 04, 2014, 01:22:28 AM »
No one should end up dead over selling cigs like this.   Cops here are acting as tax collectors not peace officers