Ferguson - Rioting for Michael Brown - Discussion

[mr.turbo]

A Justice Department review has found that Missouri's troubled Ferguson Police Department engaged in a broad pattern of racially biased enforcement that permeated the city's justice system, including the use of unreasonable force against African American suspects, according to a law enforcement official familiar with the findings.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/03/03/ferguson-justice-report/24320987/

[Archer77]

A Justice Department review has found that Missouri's troubled Ferguson Police Department engaged in a broad pattern of racially biased enforcement that permeated the city's justice system, including the use of unreasonable force against African American suspects, according to a law enforcement official familiar with the findings.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/03/03/ferguson-justice-report/24320987/

Holder and others of a similar ideological bias found what they were looking for by interpreted the data to fit their narrative.  The numbers presented by the DOJ don't indicate racial bias at all and are pretty consistent with other areas of a similar racial makeup.  Ferguson is 67% black and 29% white.  The whites in Ferguson are mostly a legacy population of white elderly pensioners.  They are not the demographic likely to contribute substantially to crime rates. Contact with the police for this group will be as a victim not a perpetrator.

The black population is younger, poorer and more likely to have children.  The thing to remember is that because more of a particular demographic are arrested or pulled over doesn't mean there is racial bias. In this case, the numbers reflect the demographics of the community.  Age in particular is very important factor in understanding the numbers.

[mr.turbo]

Holder and others of a similar ideological bias found what they were looking for by interpreted the data to fit their narrative.  The numbers presented by the DOJ don't indicate racial bias at all and are pretty consistent with other areas of a similar racial makeup.  Ferguson is 67% black and 29% white.  The whites in Ferguson are mostly a legacy population of white elderly pensioners.  They are not the demographic likely to contribute substantially to crime rates. Contact with the police for this group will be as a victim not a perpetrator.

The black population is younger, poorer and more likely to have children.  The thing to remember is that because more of a particular demographic are arrested or pulled over doesn't mean there is racial bias. In this case, the numbers reflect the demographics of the community.  Age in particular is very important factor in understanding the numbers.

Perhaps we should wait on the report to be released before deciding it's wrong?

[Archer77]

Perhaps we should wait on the report to be released before deciding it's wrong?

Maybe you should wait before you decide it's right. The left have attempted to twist the data to fit their prefer narrative multiple times.  This is another example of attributing intent to numbers.  It's simple demographics.  The white population of Ferguson is older, own their homes and are less likely to have children. The black population is by several degrees younger, more likely to be on assistance and have children in single parent homes or in homes where children are raise by someone other than their biological parent.  Which of the two populations is more likely to interact with the police?

[The Ugly]

Pick mo betta martyrs.

[oldtimer1]

Holder and others of a similar ideological bias found what they were looking for by interpreted the data to fit their narrative.  The numbers presented by the DOJ don't indicate racial bias at all and are pretty consistent with other areas of a similar racial makeup.  Ferguson is 67% black and 29% white.  The whites in Ferguson are mostly a legacy population of white elderly pensioners.  They are not the demographic likely to contribute substantially to crime rates. Contact with the police for this group will be as a victim not a perpetrator.

The black population is younger, poorer and more likely to have children.  The thing to remember is that because more of a particular demographic are arrested or pulled over doesn't mean there is racial bias. In this case, the numbers reflect the demographics of the community.  Age in particular is very important factor in understanding the numbers.

You arrest the person who does the crime. You can't even it up according to race. Let the numbers fall where they fall. Don't blame the cops because the whites aren't doing there fair share of criminal behavior to even up the arrest stats.

Eric Holder made an ass of himself claiming the 300lbs guy who robbed a store and then assaulted cop was the victim. He wasn't indicted. Holder said he would bring the full power of Department of Justice on the cop with civil rights violations and have him arrested. Well, what happened? He couldn't find anything to base his charges on and dropped the whole thing.

Now his ego is hurt.  He announces his law suit claiming they arrest and ticket too many blacks. The complicit press who act like a public relations firm for the left go berserk with back slapping like they got the cops now. Yes the majority by percentage in prison are black across the nation. It has nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with who is doing the majority of criminal behavior. Even blacks know they are safer in white neighborhoods. Like Chris Rock said no matter where you go in America, if your car breaks down and you're on Martin Luther King blvd you better run for your life.

[Coach is Back!]

You mean Eric Holders Justice Department. That was quite the race baiting speech he gave today.

[mr.turbo]

Maybe you should wait before you decide it's right. The left have attempted to twist the data to fit their prefer narrative multiple times.  This is another example of attributing intent to numbers.  It's simple demographics.  The white population of Ferguson is older, own their homes and are less likely to have children. The black population is by several degrees younger, more likely to be on assistance and have children in single parent homes or in homes where children are raise by someone other than their biological parent.  Which of the two populations is more likely to interact with the police?

I have not read the report but it's out now. 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/257669295/DOJ-Ferguson-Police-report#scribd

enjoy!

[Archer77]

I have not read the report but it's out now. 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/257669295/DOJ-Ferguson-Police-report#scribd

enjoy!

I had already started reading the report.  So far it's pretty typical of the stuff produced by the DOJ. I'm not seeing much damning evidence.  Just the tried and true accusation of disparate impact.  Disparate impact is a made up concept that even if it were to be taken as true does not demonstrate evidence of anything.  It's actually a pretty loaded term.

[tommywishbone]

How is the gentle giant?  Did the young lad recover from his injuries?

[Archer77]

The argument of the report so far, blacks are being targeted and the proof is the high rates of xyz among blacks.  It's Holder's old canard disparate impact. The logic being if more of one demographic are being arrest for x it means systemic racism must be the cause.  Same old song.

One of the main problems I see in the report is that it doesn't provide specific enough information.  It's working on the premise of a 1 to 1.  By that I mean, it assumes that one person is identical to another.  For example, two people get pulled over, one is searched and the other is not.  The only difference given is race but nothing is know about the individuals pulled over.  I've seen this in other reports similar to this one.  Nothing new really in the report.

[mr.turbo]

The argument of the report so far, blacks are being targeted and the proof is the high rates of xyz among blacks.  It's Holder's old canard disparate impact.  The logic being if more of one demographic are being arrest for x it means systemic racism must be the cause.  Same old song.

you seem to have strong feelings about this.

my feeling has always been that these fellows were a bunch of peckerwoods.

Let's see what the experts have to say about it.

[Archer77]

you seem to have strong feelings about this.

Let's see what the experts have to say about it.

The opinion of the expert is sure to be heavily influenced by the politics of the expert.  This report is a lot like the disparate impact report the DOJ conducted on school discipline. The methodology is very similar.  When the specifics were analyzed it was determined the differences in punishment could be explained by reviewing the disciplinary history of the students.  Reports like these remind me an awful lot of the Bush administrations reports on WMD's in Iraq.

You've got to take these reports with grain of salt.  They are deeply politically motivated. DOJ has an agenda and it's likely they were to find bias especially when they can set the terms.

[Archer77]

Some of the recommendations aren't bad and should be implemented but my overwhelming impression is the conclusions of the report were designed to justify the changes. I can see this as a way to artificially lower black crime statistics by forcing police officers in the inner city to police less. The creators of the changes can claim victory by claiming the programs were successful.  This is kind of a reverse quota. For example, if police departments arrest or ticket to many blacks for the DOJs liking they are subject to a possible investigation.  Not only does this put a lot of unnecessary pressure on police departments it requires them to turn a blind eye to crime.

[mr.turbo]

You mean Eric Holders Justice Department. That was quite the race baiting speech he gave today.

[Bevo]

Maybe you should wait before you decide it's right. The left have attempted to twist the data to fit their prefer narrative multiple times.  This is another example of attributing intent to numbers.  It's simple demographics.  The white population of Ferguson is older, own their homes and are less likely to have children. The black population is by several degrees younger, more likely to be on assistance and have children in single parent homes or in homes where children are raise by someone other than their biological parent.  Which of the two populations is more likely to interact with the police?

That's why no one wants to live in neighborhoods infested with minorities even successful minorities know and move into more safer upscale areas

[Bevo]

How is the gentle giant?  Did the young lad recover from his injuries?

I heard his present condition is very dry and peeled. Getting ready to compete in the Arnold amatuers

[mr.turbo]

Some of the recommendations aren't bad and should be implemented but my overwhelming impression is the conclusions of the report were designed to justify the changes. I can see this as a way to artificially lower black crime statistics by forcing police officers in the inner city to police less. The creators of the changes can claim victory by claiming the programs were successful.  This is kind of a reverse quota. For example, if police departments arrest or ticket to many blacks for the DOJs liking they are subject to a possible investigation.  Not only does this put a lot of unnecessary pressure on police departments it requires them to turn a blind eye to crime.

I suspect there is a simpler explanation. This is an extremely harsh report.

the comments I've seen so far indicate the report is a reflection of an increasingly vocal and effective reform "movement" which is just as interesting...

[Archer77]

It's not harsh at all, Andrea.  It's the typical agenda driven reports Holder's DOJ are known for. It's totally driven by politics.

[mr.turbo]

It's not harsh at all, Andrea.  It's the typical agenda driven reports Holder's DOJ are known for. It's totally driven by politics.

who?

The other takeaway is that this is basically a setup for the coming lawsuit.

That would explain the harshness.

[Archer77]

who?

The other takeaway is that this is basically a setup for the coming lawsuit.

That would explain the harshness.

The conclusions of the report were forgone.  The intent was always to justify Holder's policy changes.  He did it in the schools and he intends to do it with the law.  The idea is if you can't follow the rules change them.

[Archer77]

The thing is, I don't care for most police officers but reports like these are political not factual.

[mr.turbo]

The thing is, I don't care for most police officers but reports like these are political not factual.

It's not just political ideology.

The widespread public demonstrations allowed this BRUTAL report to be issued. That's what created the political window.

To accept your position, we have to believe that all these people are fabricating these complaints and that everyone is unreasonable including the Department of Justice. Quite the vast conspiracy.   

[Archer77]

It's not just political ideology.

The widespread public demonstrations allowed this BRUTAL report to be issued. That's what created the political window.

To accept your position, we have to believe that all these people are fabricating these complaints and that everyone is unreasonable including the Department of Justice. Quite the vast conspiracy.   

It's a politically motivated report with conclusions determined by political bias.  It's no conspiracy theory.  It's deeply political interpretation of numbers for the purpose of justifying particular policies.  This is how governments operate.

[mr.turbo]

It's a politically motivated report with conclusions determined by political bias.  It's no conspiracy theory.  It's deeply political interpretation of numbers for the purpose of justifying particular policies.  This is how governments operate.

here's an expert opinion.

“The outcome isn’t very surprising really, on either side,’’ said Samuel Bagenstos, a law professor at the University of Michigan. “The standard for proving a criminal violation is just so high that it was always very unlikely they were going to find an indictable case on the criminal side. On the other hand, the evidence of a pattern and practice of unconstitutional policing is strong. It highlights the pattern and practice authority of the department of justice is a much more powerful tool for dealing with police misconduct cases.’’

http://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-report-to-criticize-treatment-of-minorities-by-ferguson-police-1425337717