Author Topic: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.  (Read 11600 times)

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2014, 02:00:10 PM »
I don't recall and Christians blowing themselves up, hijacking planes, taking down countries...beheading anybody on Utube etc....none. This argument is fucking stupid. You libs always always always do this...sorry guy but we're better then they are. America, the West, Christians, Jews...whatever. We're better. These people are animals.

like I said earlier in this thread

the one difference is the breakdown of society in Syria and Iraq

If we had that here in the same way I have no doubt we'd seem violently enforced biblical laws

You've got the Phil Robertson of the world reading their bible and just waiting for the sign

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2014, 02:01:18 PM »
both Christians and Muslims believe in the 2nd coming of Jesus and global fight with the anti christ

that is not my opinion but a fact

I've given you examples of modern day christians espousing violence in the name of Jesus and I'm we can agree we have an abundance of examples from the Muslim side

I've given you examples of violence committed by christians in this country which were the direct result of their religious beliefs

I'd be happy to have some of our fundies  jump in and tell our their vision for the armageddon taken right out of the book written by a bunch of mostly anonymous men that they believe is the word of their god.  Again, remind yourself how much of that includes infractions punishable by death.....starting with working on the Sabbath which I'll bet every christian on this board has done at one time or another
it wasn't that log again that catholics were burning people at the stake.

how many christians today will tell your that our secular government is an insult to their god?
how about gay marriage.  You know they think that is an insult to their god.   I could give you many more examples but I'm about to hit the road and can't text any more

 

what do you know about the individuals in the picture?  What do they believe or does the fact they both hold a holy book and guns enough for you to make a judgement?
A

JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2014, 02:06:25 PM »
.

Explain the difference???? Seriously? What kind of leftist dipshit comes up with this stuff...

Im pretty sure the american girl isnt using that rifle to shoot people, nor does she condone and promote the beheading and slaughter of everyone on earth who doesnt share her religion ::)

Jesus fucking christ, no one on earth can be this dumb...

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40060
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2014, 02:15:12 PM »
I don't recall and Christians blowing themselves up, hijacking planes, taking down countries...beheading anybody on Utube etc....none. This argument is fucking stupid. You libs always always always do this...sorry guy but we're better then they are. America, the West, Christians, Jews...whatever. We're better. These people are animals.

you're right, all they've done so far is kill doctors, blow up abortion clinics, kill gay people, etc...

Imagine what the would do if our society broke down and they were convinced the End Times were here




Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40060
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2014, 02:48:42 PM »
you're right, all they've done so far is kill doctors, blow up abortion clinics, kill gay people, etc...

Imagine what the would do if our society broke down and they were convinced the End Times were here





LOL - yet libfaggets like yourself are silent when muslims kills gays like yourself en masse etc

Kazan

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6799
  • Sic vis pacem, parabellum
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2014, 03:28:57 PM »
Dude, he is a smart person, he can make that distinction.

I disagree with him but most people would agree this is a rather extreme form of Islam not practiced widely amongst it's some billion followers.

I think the same way about your religion, christianity, Obama being an atheist feels the same way.

Ok so how many practice it? 10%? that's still 100,000,000 crazy fuckers running around, I would say that is something that should be addressed.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2014, 05:46:40 PM »
Ok so how many practice it? 10%? that's still 100,000,000 crazy fuckers running around, I would say that is something that should be addressed.


Exactly, millions of Muslim whack jobs and as usual the liberal retards feel compelled to point out the 20 or so Christian whackos in a pathetic equivalency argument.  Ah well, if it makes them feel better - give them a box of crayons to go with it.



Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2014, 05:51:32 PM »
you're right, all they've done so far is kill doctors, blow up abortion clinics, kill gay people, etc...

Imagine what the would do if our society broke down and they were convinced the End Times were here





All you can do is imagine and imagine you have. 
A

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40060
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2014, 04:43:39 AM »

The Opinion Pages | Op-Ed Contributor

Islamists Are Not Our Friends


By DENNIS B. ROSSSEPT. 11, 2014

   




Continue reading the main story

Continue reading the main story Share This Page
email


facebook


twitter


save


more


Continue reading the main story

Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story   



This story is included with an NYT Opinion subscription.

Learn more »
 
WASHINGTON — A new fault line has emerged in Middle Eastern politics, one that will have profound implications for America’s foreign policy in the region. This rift is not defined by those who support or oppose the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), or by conflict between Sunnis and Shiites and the proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is characterized by a fundamental division between Islamists and non-Islamists.

On one side are the Islamists — both Sunni and Shiite. ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood represent the Sunni end of the spectrum, while the Islamic Republic of Iran and its militias, including Hezbollah (in Lebanon and Syria) and Asaib Ahl al-Haq (in Iraq), constitute the other. Many of these Islamists are at war with one another, but they are also engaged in a bitter struggle with non-Islamists to define the fundamental identity of the region and its states. What the Islamists all have in common is that they subordinate national identities to an Islamic identity.

To be sure, not all are as extreme as ISIS, which seeks to obliterate sovereign nations under the aegis of a caliphate. But the Muslim Brotherhood is committed to the Umma, the larger Muslim community. One reason behind the popular revolt against its rule in Egypt was that the Brotherhood violated a basic principle of national identity: It was Islamist before it was Egyptian.

Now, President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi sees his country engaged in an existential conflict with the Muslim Brotherhood. He is backed financially by Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. Mr. Sisi also collaborates closely with Algeria, and has support from Morocco and Jordan.

During the recent conflict in the Gaza Strip, there were demonstrations against Israel in Europe — but not in the Arab states. Unlike Turkey and Qatar, which support the Muslim Brotherhood, the other Sunni states in the region wanted to weaken Hamas, the Brotherhood’s Palestinian wing. Those states were alienated when Washington turned to Qatar and Turkey as possible mediators of a cease-fire in the recent conflict.

The Arab Awakening of 2011 did not usher in an era of democracy, nor could it. The institutions of civil society were too weak; the political culture of winner-take-all too strong; sectarian differences too powerful; and a belief in pluralism too inchoate. Instead, the awakening produced political vacuums and a struggle over identity.

President Obama is right to note the old order’s disappearance in the region and the time it’s taking for a new one to emerge. The administration is struggling to define an effective strategy — but the Islamist vs. non-Islamist divide creates an opening.

The non-Islamists include the traditional monarchies, authoritarian governments in Egypt and Algeria, and secular reformers who may be small in number but have not disappeared. They do not include Bashar al-Assad’s regime in Syria; he is completely dependent on Iran and Hezbollah and cannot make decisions without them.

Continue reading the main story

Continue reading the main story

Today, the non-Islamists want to know that the United States supports them. For America, that means not partnering with Iran against ISIS, though both countries may avoid interfering with each other’s operations against the insurgents in Iraq.

It means actively competing with Iran in the rest of the region, independently of whether an acceptable nuclear deal can be reached with Tehran. It means recognizing that Egypt is an essential part of the anti-Islamist coalition, and that American military aid should not be withheld because of differences over Egypt’s domestic behavior.

America should also coordinate with Egypt and the U.A.E. when they bomb Islamist targets in Libya, or elsewhere. Coordination will make their military operations more effective, as well as provide America with greater ability to influence their actions. (And Washington would want to be able to head off military acts that it sees as ill-advised.)

The Obama administration worries about the consequences of excluding all Islamists. It worries, too, about appearing to give a blank check to authoritarian regimes, when it believes there need to be limits and that these regimes are likely to prove unstable over time. But as Egypt and the U.A.E. showed with the airstrikes on Islamists in Libya, some of America’s traditional partners are ready to act without us, convinced that the administration does not see all Islamists as a threat — and that America sees its interests as different from theirs. That is a problem.

These non-Islamists are America’s natural partners in the region. They favor stability, the free flow of oil and gas, and they oppose terrorism. The forces that threaten us also threaten them. The Obama administration needs to follow three principles in these partnerships.

First, focus on security and stability. Nothing, including tolerant, pluralist societies, is possible without it.

Second, do not reach out to Islamists; their creed is not compatible with pluralism or democracy. In Tunisia, the Ennahda party surrendered power only when it realized its policies had produced such a backlash that the party’s very survival was threatened. Islamists, even apparent moderates like those of Ennahda, must be left with no choice but coexistence.

Turkey is a special case because it is a NATO ally. There is much we can do with Turkey when it comes to fighting ISIS, but the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, should understand that his support for the Muslim Brotherhood limits what we will do with him and necessarily isolates Turkey from its neighbors.

Third, America’s support for non-Islamist partners does not require surrendering our voice or supporting every domestic policy. We should press them on pluralism, minority rights and the rule of law.

The new fault line in the Middle East is a real opportunity for America. Yes, the United States will face challenges and have to manage tensions between our values and our interests. No strategy is free of risk, but joining with our natural partners offers the best way forward.

Dennis B. Ross,  a counselor and fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, was the United States chief negotiator for the Arab-Israeli conflict from 1993 to 2001 and a special assistant to the president for the Middle East and South Asia from 2009 to 2011.

JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2014, 08:31:01 AM »
you're right, all they've done so far is kill doctors, blow up abortion clinics, kill gay people, etc...

Imagine what the would do if our society broke down and they were convinced the End Times were here





 ::)

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2014, 08:36:25 AM »
All you can do is imagine and imagine you have.  

well we can also look a back a the history of the Catholic Church that specialized in torturing people into confessing their "sins" and then burning them alive (no doubt for the good of their eternal soul)

Hopefully you're smart enough to understand that all I'm saying is that the fundamentalist religious wack job  mindset is essentially the same regardless of the religion and obviously not everyone who subscribes would ever go to such extemes.    But, given the right set of circumstances a certain amount of people in any religion would become extremists.  

Also, much of the shit that ISIS/ISIL whatever is doing has nothing to do with islam and more to do with controlling people, territory and assets.  Which again is not to say that they are not fundamentalist wackjobs to the core because they most certainly are.

JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2014, 08:57:28 AM »
Christianity has had its share of dark times, but Islam has ALWAYS been slaughtering people from day one. It is fundamentally different with islam. Christianity's basic principle is to spead thru missionaries and peaceful methods; it is fundamentally nonviolent at its core. Those that used its name in violence did not represent true christianity. With islam, its fundamental principle is to spread it BY ANY MEAN NECESSARY. Forced conversion to islam, or death. Infidels are to be enslaved or slaughtered. This is why everywhere in the world where islam has spread, carnage and destruction inevitably follow

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2014, 09:33:03 AM »
Christianity has evolved more than Islam.

Maybe Islam will evolve as well.

Just give it a couple of thousand years.

Patience.

2Thick

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1703
  • His Thickness
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2014, 02:42:46 PM »
LOL - yet libfaggets like yourself are silent when muslims kills gays like yourself en masse etc

I have actually spoken to liberal homosexuals who deny that muslims do behead homosexuals for no other reason than those homosexuals being gay... or those homosexuals somehow blame America or Bush for it.  ::)
A

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2014, 03:05:18 PM »
I have actually spoken to liberal homosexuals who deny that muslims do behead homosexuals for no other reason than those homosexuals being gay... or those homosexuals somehow blame America or Bush for it.  ::)


Book them a flight so they can see for themselves.

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2014, 05:58:05 PM »
LMFAO strawmans showing his ass in this thread....

avxo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5607
  • Iron Pumping University Math Professor
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2014, 06:27:45 PM »
you're right, all they've done so far is kill doctors, blow up abortion clinics, kill gay people, etc...

Imagine what the would do if our society broke down and they were convinced the End Times were here

Sure, Christians have done such things. And I'm under no delusion that Christians could - and would - be just as violent and brutal than Muslims if their imaginary friend ordered them to fight a holy war. But... your argument is, to put it mildly, silly.

The fact is the percentage of Christians who do the things you describe is infinitesimally smaller than the percentage of Muslims who do similar things. You're comparing people who are outliers with people who are almost mainstream.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2014, 06:55:00 PM »
Sure, Christians have done such things. And I'm under no delusion that Christians could - and would - be just as violent and brutal than Muslims if their imaginary friend ordered them to fight a holy war. But... your argument is, to put it mildly, silly.

The fact is the percentage of Christians who do the things you describe is infinitesimally smaller than the percentage of Muslims who do similar things. You're comparing people who are outliers with people who are almost mainstream.

LOL - so you agree with my premise but you just believe the the % of christians who would resort to such thing is "infinitesimally smaller than the percentage of Muslims who do similar things"

that's interesting

I don't remember providing any estimate of the #'s who would do such things

Since we agree on the basic premise can you tell me where I made any claims about the #'s of christians who would resort to such behaviour so that we can all I understand why am so "silly"

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2014, 07:03:00 PM »
LOL - so you agree with my premise but you just believe the the % of christians who would resort to such thing is "infinitesimally smaller than the percentage of Muslims who do similar things"

that's interesting

I don't remember providing any estimate of the #'s who would do such things

Since we agree on the basic premise can you tell me where I made any claims about the #'s of christians who would resort to such behaviour so that we can all I understand why am so "silly"

you do know there are christians, jews and other religions in the same region that the radical muslims are acting up right?

by your own guidelines they should be acting the same way as the muslims, why are they not?

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2014, 07:28:45 PM »
you do know there are christians, jews and other religions in the same region that the radical muslims are acting up right?

by your own guidelines they should be acting the same way as the muslims, why are they not?

why don't you restate what you think "my guidelines" are

try reading my posts on this thread first

I'm going to dinner

avxo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5607
  • Iron Pumping University Math Professor
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2014, 10:40:00 PM »
LOL - so you agree with my premise but you just believe the the % of christians who would resort to such thing is "infinitesimally smaller than the percentage of Muslims who do similar things"

that's interesting

I don't remember providing any estimate of the #'s who would do such things

Since we agree on the basic premise can you tell me where I made any claims about the #'s of christians who would resort to such behaviour so that we can all I understand why am so "silly"

My point is that you can find crazy people who support just about any belief. Want crazy Christians? We got those. Want crazy Hindus? We got those too. Want crazy scientists? Head over to sector 7G.  So judging any particular set of beliefs or ideas by the crazy people who share those beliefs or hold those ideas is pointless. What you must look at is the actions and words of the non-crazy people.

The fact is that even people who classify themselves are "moderate" Muslims aren't really all that moderate. They are not likely to do the kinds of things you described in your earlier post, but they are quick to defend those who do. And that is almost as bad.

Granted that this is anecdotal evidence but I've talked to people who I was acquainted with that were Mulsim and were very much non-violent, kind and polite people and asked them, in various ways and from all sorts of angles, whether they unequivocally condemned actions like the murder of Theo Van Gogh or suicide bombings. All but one waffled... "well, I don't approve of <action> but <half-baked explanation why action is sorta-kinda ok>." It was really rather shocking.

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2014, 05:11:55 AM »
why don't you restate what you think "my guidelines" are

try reading my posts on this thread first

I'm going to dinner

as I've said, if our society was broken down like it is in Syria and Iraq I don't think it would take too long for the Phil Robertsons of the world to pull out his bible (he said on Hannity he never leaves home without it) and start enforcing biblical law......as he sees it.
There are plenty of christians, jews etc in the middle east in the same region where there retards are beheading people.

Why are they not doing the same thing?

If christianity is essentially the same as islam why are the christians in the area not acting the same way the muslims are?

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2014, 06:21:07 PM »
My point is that you can find crazy people who support just about any belief. Want crazy Christians? We got those. Want crazy Hindus? We got those too. Want crazy scientists? Head over to sector 7G.  So judging any particular set of beliefs or ideas by the crazy people who share those beliefs or hold those ideas is pointless. What you must look at is the actions and words of the non-crazy people.

The fact is that even people who classify themselves are "moderate" Muslims aren't really all that moderate. They are not likely to do the kinds of things you described in your earlier post, but they are quick to defend those who do. And that is almost as bad.

Granted that this is anecdotal evidence but I've talked to people who I was acquainted with that were Mulsim and were very much non-violent, kind and polite people and asked them, in various ways and from all sorts of angles, whether they unequivocally condemned actions like the murder of Theo Van Gogh or suicide bombings. All but one waffled... "well, I don't approve of <action> but <half-baked explanation why action is sorta-kinda ok>." It was really rather shocking.

I don't know what sector 7g refers to other than the Simpson.  There may well be scientist would like to destroy the world.  I don't know
All I've said is that if we had a breakdown of our society in this country that I can easily see a scenario where zealot christians would trying to invoke harsh biblical law as they see it.   Again, we're talking about a group of people who truly believes the end of that armegeddon will happen in their lifetime and they even have a book they believe is the literal word of their god.  That same book lists countless offenses to their god that are punishable by death.    If I wanted to spend the time I'm sure I could find videos of christians on youtube talking about it or some other similar scenarios.  I'm actually on vacation and don't really give a shit to spend the time

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2014, 06:29:50 PM »
I don't know what sector 7g refers to other than the Simpson.  There may well be scientist would like to destroy the world.  I don't know
All I've said is that if we had a breakdown of our society in this country that I can easily see a scenario where zealot christians would trying to invoke harsh biblical law as they see it.   Again, we're talking about a group of people who truly believes the end of that armegeddon will happen in their lifetime and they even have a book they believe is the literal word of their god.  That same book lists countless offenses to their god that are punishable by death.    If I wanted to spend the time I'm sure I could find videos of christians on youtube talking about it or some other similar scenarios.  I'm actually on vacation and don't really give a shit to spend the time
why have the christians in iraq and the rest of the middle east not succumb to the desire to behead others and kill indiscriminately?

are they not in the same shit hole situation?

why have the jews not? why have none of the other religions in that region done it?