After Yesterday`s "No One" Machine Workout...

[jprc10]

Try my workout - you will be dead in 15 minutes flat. 

What is your workout like?

[Vince B]

ya man lol awesome. it leaves you tanked eh? at some point tho you'll be blowing thru that routine. it wont even tax you. you'll find you reach such a stage of adaptation that the only way you think you'll be able to further tax yourself is by adding more sets cause the workout gets too 'easy'. i found this kicked in around week 11 or so? thats when i was like fuck it, lets try it 2x a day 3x a week instead of just adding extra sets cause i have a schedule that allows me the comfort of training that way.

now take that- your increased your workload over and above what you are doing now. then you add additional work on top of it. plus your using anabolics. you get the picture here?

i would venture to say that once you get to this point increasing anabolic intake, along with your ability to keep the muscle under stress longer, train with additional sets over and above what your using now- so now its volume, and frequency- and have it repair to the point it can be trained again the next day- how the fuck can you NOT 'grow'. im speaking from experience cause i upped my coasting dose at the 12 week mark. doubled it in fact- from 350 to 700. so this isnt speculation. im not going to tell you what happens. ill let you find out for yourself.

and all it takes is abt 9 -12 weeks to get there. but you'll def see significant changes all the way thru right from the start until at 9-12 week mark.

I like to see others helping people with ideas to improve their training. However, when such help suggests using anabolics I turn off because that method is devoid of principles that will continue to generate hypertrophy. What a shame.

From my 56 years training with resistance I can't see how no one's method will work. Sure, maybe for a few weeks or a month but after that nothing but more endurance.

It all comes down to asking a very simple question. What are big muscles good for? Ah, when you know that you can then train properly. Quite simply big muscles are good at moving significant loads over a short distance for several times and then repeat this several times. That is it. Suppose you can bench press 200 pounds for 10 reps. If you rest 2 to 3 minutes you can probably duplicate that number of reps. However, if you don't rest but try to do another set you can't do any reps. So that means you have to reduce the starting load to something like 100 to 120 pounds. That isn't going to generate much in the way of hypertrophy. In a month's time you still won't be able to do set after set with 200 pounds with no rest between sets. In 6 months time you still won't be able to do it!

I applaud anyone who can come up with something new and original re training. If the method works and others swear that it does then it should be investigated more closely. No one is at a loss about what to do after 12 weeks so suggests progressively increasing anabolics. This is an admission that the method doesn't work because the steroids will be generating new growth after the initial protocols are tried. No thanks.

[no one]

no one is at a loss about what to do after 12 weeks so suggests progressively increasing anabolics. This is an admission that the method doesn't work because the steroids will be generating new growth after the initial protocols are tried. No thanks.

the hell are you talking about? have you been following what I say happens after the body adapts?

after 12 weeks your body is capable of handling not just 7x the workload your probably giving it now, you could quite feasibly had you the time and inclination train your whole body 2x a day 7 days a week.

that being said after 12 weeks this program will increase exponentially your ability to do more work, and recover rapidly despite that increased workload.

you might not be able to see the benefits of this routine in increasing your performance, your lean tissue in both the assisted and natty alike, or how such an upswing in workload and recovery will create a denser more quality fiber but others following this thread and trying the routine will.

given what I have outlined in the above paragraph I don't understand how you can't see that hypertrophy will take place.

far be it from me to talk someone into trying this, but I'm not about to let someone who's never even attempted it to tell others it's a waste of time when it's the exact opposite of that.

[The True Adonis]

I like to see others helping people with ideas to improve their training. However, when such help suggests using anabolics I turn off because that method is devoid of principles that will continue to generate hypertrophy. What a shame.

From my 56 years training with resistance I can't see how no one's method will work. Sure, maybe for a few weeks or a month but after that nothing but more endurance.

It all comes down to asking a very simple question. What are big muscles good for? Ah, when you know that you can then train properly. Quite simply big muscles are good at moving significant loads over a short distance for several times and then repeat this several times. That is it. Suppose you can bench press 200 pounds for 10 reps. If you rest 2 to 3 minutes you can probably duplicate that number of reps. However, if you don't rest but try to do another set you can't do any reps. So that means you have to reduce the starting load to something like 100 to 120 pounds. That isn't going to generate much in the way of hypertrophy. In a month's time you still won't be able to do set after set with 200 pounds with no rest between sets. In 6 months time you still won't be able to do it!

I applaud anyone who can come up with something new and original re training. If the method works and others swear that it does then it should be investigated more closely. No one is at a loss about what to do after 12 weeks so suggests progressively increasing anabolics. This is an admission that the method doesn't work because the steroids will be generating new growth after the initial protocols are tried. No thanks.

Hey Vince, every study I have come across states as long as lower-load training (lighter weights high reps) is taken to volitional fatigue, equivalent hypertrophy will be produced as with high-intensity training or low volume heavy weight training.

[The True Adonis]

the hell are you talking about? have you been following what I say happens after the body adapts?

after 12 weeks your body is capable of handling not just 7x the workload your probably giving it now, you could quite feasibly had you the time and inclination train your whole body 2x a day 7 days a week.

that being said after 12 weeks this program will increase exponentially your ability to do more work, and recover rapidly despite that increased workload.

you might not be able to see the benefits of this routine in increasing your performance, your lean tissue in both the assisted and natty alike, or how such an upswing in workload and recovery will create a denser more quality fiber but others following this thread and trying the routine will.

given what I have outlined in the above paragraph I don't understand how you can't see that hypertrophy will take place.

far be it from me to talk someone into trying this, but I'm not about to let someone who's never even attempted it to tell others it's a waste of time when it's the exact opposite of that.

I imagine all you would have to do after 12 weeks is repeat the process with different exercise and/or increase weight. 

What I would do is start Phase 1 again with totally new exercises and weights.  That way you get a deload period and then build back up again.  You would really only need about 4 different routines for an entire year doing 12 weeks of each. Your thoughts?

[The True Adonis]

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=28182

 Low-Load Bench Press Training to Fatigue Results in Muscle Hypertrophy Similar to High-Load Bench Press Training
DownloadDownload as PDF (Size:190KB)  HTML    PP. 114-121 
DOI: 10.4236/ijcm.2013.42022    6,590 Downloads    19,882 Views
Author(s)    Leave a comment
Riki Ogasawara, Jeremy P. Loenneke, Robert S. Thiebaud, Takashi Abe

Affiliation(s)
Graduate School of Frontier Sciences, University of Tokyo, Kashiwa, Japan; College of Sport and Health Science, Ritsumeikan University of Tokyo, Kusatsu, Japan.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, Norman, USA.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, Norman, USA.
Graduate School of Frontier Sciences, University of Tokyo, Kashiwa, Japan；Department of Health, Exercise Science, & Recreation Management, University of Mississippi, Oxford, USA.

ABSTRACT

The purpose of this study was to determine whether the training responses observed with low-load resistance exercise to volitional fatigue translates into significant muscle hypertrophy, and compare that response to high-load resistance training. Nine previously untrained men (aged 25 [SD 3] years at the beginning of the study, standing height 1.73 [SD 0.07] m, body mass 68.9 [SD 8.1] kg) completed 6-week of high load-resistance training (HL-RT) (75% of one repeti-tion maximal [1RM], 3-sets, 3x/wk) followed by 12 months of detraining. Following this, subjects completed 6 weeks of low load-resistance training (LL-RT) to volitional fatigue (30% 1 RM, 4 sets, 3x/wk). Increases (p < 0.05) in magnetic resonance imaging-measured triceps brachii and pectorals major muscle cross-sectional areas were similar for both HL-RT (11.9% and 17.6%, respectively) and LL-RT (9.8% and 21.1%, respectively). In addition, both groups increased (p < 0.05) 1RM and maximal elbow extension strength following training; however, the percent increases in 1RM (8.6% vs. 21.0%) and elbow extension strength (6.5% vs. 13.9%) were significantly (p < 0.05) lower with LL-RT. Both protocols elicited similar increases in muscle cross-sectional area, however differences were observed in strength. An explanation of the smaller relative increases in strength may be due to the fact that detraining after HL-RT did not cause strength values to return to baseline levels thereby producing smaller changes in strength. In addition, the results may also suggest that the consistent practice of lifting a heavy load is necessary to maximize gains in muscular strength of the trained movement. These results demonstrate that significant muscle hypertrophy can occur without high-load resistance training and suggests that the focus on percentage of external load as the important deciding factor on muscle hypertrophy is too simplistic and inappropriate.

[no one]

I imagine all you would have to do after 12 weeks is repeat the process with different exercise and/or increase weight.  

What I would do is start Phase 1 again with totally new exercises and weights.  That way you get a deload period and then build back up again.  You would really only need about 4 different routines for an entire year doing 12 weeks of each. Your thoughts?

given real life evidences of adaptation ie cyclists, roofers forearms, fat people's calves etc all of them had very advanced bodyparts just thru daily repetitive stress.

the roofer didn't have to increase the number of roofs he had to shingle in a day to keep developing his forearms, he simply kept pounding them every day. the cyclist doesn't have to cycle an extra 100km every week to develop a world class body part he just simply followed the same amount of mileage and training daily.

given those real world proofs^- the ones vince basille is looking for incidentally- once you reach the point where you can hit everything every day and recover in order to repeat the feat next time increasing workload or time under tension or even frequency isn't necessary. you just need to keep training and everything will keep developing.

[Vince B]

I imagine all you would have to do after 12 weeks is repeat the process with different exercise and/or increase weight. 

What I would do is start Phase 1 again with totally new exercises and weights.  That way you get a deload period and then build back up again.  You would really only need about 4 different routines for an entire year doing 12 weeks of each. Your thoughts?

No one stated he didn't want to argue or discuss his method. Well, he has to defend it and that he does.

There are many things one can do to trigger hypertrophy. There are very few that will trigger maximum hypertrophy and then continue to generate

more hypertrophy until the maximum size possible is attained.

Most people make gains for a while then plateau. What then? They try something different and it works for a while. Eventually most people reach

the intermediate stage and seldom improve beyond it. An astute gym owner can detect when this happens and congratulate those members for

reaching their peaks. Naturally, nobody wants to believe they have stopped growing. The truth is very few can get arms over 18 inches. Well, except

for people over 6 feet and naturally fat people. For someone under 5' 11" those 18 inch arms are rare to see. Muscular arms that is.

Will Adonis get 18 inch arms following his guru no one? Time will tell. I am skeptical. Especially when changes are made to the original method.

Please, if no one knows what he is talking about then use his brain and not your own. Good luck.

[The True Adonis]

given real life evidences of adaptation ie cyclists, roofers forearms, fat people's calves etc all of them had very advanced bodyparts just thru daily repetitive stress.

the roofer didn't have to increase the number of roofs he had to shingle in a day to keep developing his forearms, he simply kept pounding them every day. the cyclist doesn't have to cycle an extra 100km every week to develop a world class body part he just simply followed the same amount of mileage and training daily.

given those real world proofs^- the ones vince basille is looking for incidentally- once you reach the point where you can hit everything every day and recover in order to repeat the feat next time increasing workload or time under tension or even frequency isn't necessary. you just need to keep training and everything will keep developing.

What do you make of the Sprint Cyclists thighs being so much larger than the Distance Cyclists thighs?  Its a considerable difference, just like the Sprinter vs. the Marathon runner.

Sprint Cyclists



Distance Cyclists

[The True Adonis]

[Vince B]

given real life evidences of adaptation ie cyclists, roofers forearms, fat people's calves etc all of them had very advanced bodyparts just thru daily repetitive stress.

the roofer didn't have to increase the number of roofs he had to shingle in a day to keep developing his forearms, he simply kept pounding them every day. the cyclist doesn't have to cycle an extra 100km every week to develop a world class body part he just simply followed the same amount of mileage and training daily.

given those real world proofs^- the ones vince basille is looking for incidentally- once you reach the point where you can hit everything every day and recover in order to repeat the feat next time increasing workload or time under tension or even frequency isn't necessary. you just need to keep training and everything will keep developing.

Okay, Adam, explain this. I trained for pinch gripping years ago. I would warm up then proceed to add resistance and work up to a maximum single rep. Then I would rest and attempt to do another single with that maximum.

Then I would reduce the weight by 10 kg and do as many reps as I could. I would rest a bit then do more reps and continue for a few sets.

I tried training every second day but I stopped improving. I concluded that training like this every 3rd day was optimal and I set a world record pinch grip lift of 92.5 kg or about 204 pounds.

If strength follows this timeline I wondered if hypertrophy did the same. So that is what I based my protocols on. Sure, I also wondered about training every day. I even thought about

training all day on arms! Alternating back and forth supersetting biceps and triceps. That would have been interesting. I would be using the same maximum resistance all day long for at least 8 hours.

I would have rested sufficiently between sets to duplicate the reps. I never did try this program but it appealed to me. A bit like no one suggests where you force the body to adapt to extreme protocols.

[The Ugly]

Okay, Adam, explain this. I trained for pinch gripping years ago. I would warm up then proceed to add resistance and work up to a maximum single rep. Then I would rest and attempt to do another single with that maximum.
Then I would reduce the weight by 10 kg and do as many reps as I could. I would rest a bit then do more reps and continue for a few sets.

I tried training every second day but I stopped improving. I concluded that training like this every 3rd day was optimal and I set a world record pinch grip lift of 92.5 kg or about 204 pounds.

If strength follows this timeline I wondered if hypertrophy did the same. So that is what I based my protocols on. Sure, I also wondered about training every day. I even thought about

training all day on arms! Alternating back and forth supersetting biceps and triceps. That would have been interesting. I would be using the same maximum resistance all day long for at least 8 hours.

I would have rested sufficiently between sets to duplicate the reps. I never did try this program but it appealed to me. A bit like no one suggests where you force the body to adapt to extreme protocols.

Why? Just fucking why?

How on earth would this result in anything beneficial, practically or aesthetically?

[Vince B]

Why? Just fucking why?

How on earth would this result in anything beneficial, practically or aesthetically?

Unbelievable! We had comps for fun in the gym. Period. Why not try for a world record in a strength feat? That is an achievement.

[pellius]

listen up, boneheads.

there are people who will try this routine in earnest and find it to be everything I say it is. the rest of you fucking numptys like colon4life will sit and bitch and still look like the dork he is a year from now.

this is for those who want to better themselves. I'm not going to give you proof. I'm not going to give you pics. don't fucking do it. I don't care. when your done reading this go look in the mirror. see that skinny fat idiot looking back at you? that's exactly what your going to be a year from now. I gave you the opportunity to change that. but your rather doubt, mock and deride.

what I do care to do is help those genuinely interested in improving their physiques and performance. it's that simple. lol

" I'm not going to give you proof. "

Awesome way of making your case.

At least Mentzer and Jones presented proof.

You're an advance bodybuilder but certainly nothing special. If you were you would have won something. There are tons of guys in every nowhere gym in the world going through the motions that blow you away.

Next.

[Vince B]

Adonis asked: "What do you make of the Sprint Cyclists thighs being so much larger than the Distance Cyclists thighs?  Its a considerable difference, just like the Sprinter vs. the Marathon runner."

This is easy to explain. The sprint cyclists are doing reps at the maximum effort for a short time, then repeating those efforts. This should generate hypertrophy and continue to do so for years. Plus, I imagine they also do resistance training in the gym.

[ProudVirgin69]

" I'm not going to give you proof. "

Awesome way of making your case.

At least Mentzer and Jones presented proof.

You're an advance bodybuilder but certainly nothing special. If you were you would have won something. There are tons of guys in every nowhere gym in the world going through the motions that blow you away.

Next.

What qualifies as "proof" anyways?  He came up with it, found that it worked well for him & others, and shared it with us. 

[no one]

What do you make of the Sprint Cyclists thighs being so much larger than the Distance Cyclists thighs?  Its a considerable difference, just like the Sprinter vs. the Marathon runner.

Sprint Cyclists



Distance Cyclists

hey dude it's the amount of force required by each disciplene to get the cycle going. from what I understand sprinters need to apply a significant greater force to get their bicycles up to speed compared distance cyclists thus the change in the size of the muscle.

I'm am sure sprinters also use a significant free weight training program to aid in this function in order to generate the power necessary to excel in that event.

[no one]

" I'm not going to give you proof. "

Awesome way of making your case.

At least Mentzer and Jones presented proof.

You're an advance bodybuilder but certainly nothing special. If you were you would have won something. There are tons of guys in every nowhere gym in the world going through the motions that blow you away.

Next.

thanks for sharing.

enjoy mediocrity.

[pellius]

We all know that extreme NEW protocols can trigger adaptation and growth. If you change what you are doing every 3 weeks for 12 weeks you should continue to adapt.

However, if after 9 weeks the soreness disappears I doubt hypertrophy is occurring. What then?

Consider what would happen if instead of trying to make your body a machine that you tried to keep your muscles in a steady state of DOMS? Not all your muscles but one or two groups.

It is my conjecture that the muscle will continue to hypertrophy and do so rapidly. To test this see if you can get your biceps sore. Next, keep them sore for a whole month! It is easy to get your triceps sore. Then do the same for

the calves. Train every third day for a month and you should put an inch on both muscle groups. I advocate gaining weight as you grow.

You have never been able to make the progress that you claim "should" put an inch on muscle groups. You remember how I outlined the routine that transformed my calves on IronAge from that polio look to my most impressive body part (admittedly a low standard).

[The True Adonis]

Okay, Adam, explain this. I trained for pinch gripping years ago. I would warm up then proceed to add resistance and work up to a maximum single rep. Then I would rest and attempt to do another single with that maximum.

Then I would reduce the weight by 10 kg and do as many reps as I could. I would rest a bit then do more reps and continue for a few sets.

I tried training every second day but I stopped improving. I concluded that training like this every 3rd day was optimal and I set a world record pinch grip lift of 92.5 kg or about 204 pounds.

If strength follows this timeline I wondered if hypertrophy did the same. So that is what I based my protocols on. Sure, I also wondered about training every day. I even thought about

training all day on arms! Alternating back and forth supersetting biceps and triceps. That would have been interesting. I would be using the same maximum resistance all day long for at least 8 hours.

I would have rested sufficiently between sets to duplicate the reps. I never did try this program but it appealed to me. A bit like no one suggests where you force the body to adapt to extreme protocols.

I think the ideal workout is heavy as you can go, as fast as you can go, with little to no rest as many times possible each week, like the No One Machine Method.

With that said, I do think hypertrophy is individualistic to an extent in that everybody has different muscle fibers even if the muscles are the same.  I think the "Sprinter-like" weight training sessions (No One Machine Method) covers all the bases for just about everyone.  

As for Pinch grip, I think practicing different angles of pinching with different wrist positions would be the most important step first.  Try pinching something and then moving your wrist up and down while pinched and you can feel that your grip is stronger and weaker at different points.  Finding that groove where you are your strongest is the most important.  Same is true for weight lifting or power lifting, with the elite not having to ever really try positioning as they are automatically set up ideally.  Usually for bench for instance, its the fatso types with extremely short forearms, short bicep muscles, short torsos that can move the weight.  The longer the forearm, the worse the bench press and more difficult it is as its just not a mechanical advantage.  Same for squats.  A persons femur length, tibia length and foot length will all have an effect for squats.

The good thing though is, weight does not really matter as an absolute.  We all have seen 500 lb raw benchers with shitty chests, people who can squat 405 for 20 with crappy legs, powerlifters dieting down and looking like shit and so on. (in fact, most powerlifters who do diet down, look like shit-could be a structure issue, short torso/short forearm barrel look etc.. or even lack of muscle development despite lifting all that weight)

A person who can only lift half the weight of someone else can certainly have a better chest, better quads and arms and so on.

[The True Adonis]

Adonis asked: "What do you make of the Sprint Cyclists thighs being so much larger than the Distance Cyclists thighs?  Its a considerable difference, just like the Sprinter vs. the Marathon runner."

This is easy to explain. The sprint cyclists are doing reps at the maximum effort for a short time, then repeating those efforts. This should generate hypertrophy and continue to do so for years. Plus, I imagine they also do resistance training in the gym.

Which I think is what the No One Machine Method really excels at vs. a lot of the other workouts out there.

[pellius]

I like to see others helping people with ideas to improve their training. However, when such help suggests using anabolics I turn off because that method is devoid of principles that will continue to generate hypertrophy. What a shame.

From my 56 years training with resistance I can't see how no one's method will work. Sure, maybe for a few weeks or a month but after that nothing but more endurance.

It all comes down to asking a very simple question. What are big muscles good for? Ah, when you know that you can then train properly. Quite simply big muscles are good at moving significant loads over a short distance for several times and then repeat this several times. That is it. Suppose you can bench press 200 pounds for 10 reps. If you rest 2 to 3 minutes you can probably duplicate that number of reps. However, if you don't rest but try to do another set you can't do any reps. So that means you have to reduce the starting load to something like 100 to 120 pounds. That isn't going to generate much in the way of hypertrophy. In a month's time you still won't be able to do set after set with 200 pounds with no rest between sets. In 6 months time you still won't be able to do it!

I applaud anyone who can come up with something new and original re training. If the method works and others swear that it does then it should be investigated more closely. No one is at a loss about what to do after 12 weeks so suggests progressively increasing anabolics. This is an admission that the method doesn't work because the steroids will be generating new growth after the initial protocols are tried. No thanks.

Point well taken. No One is an intelligent and thinking person. I just get turned off a bit by the arrogance. And lets not forget he's a long time heavy juicer including insulin and hgh. That changes things considerably.

Now I believe that TA has been clean for years and has attained a very advanced level given his self imposed restrictions. I would take what he says a bit more seriously. That's why I wanted to see if there was any real difference in progress and advancement other than how he feels in terms of body warmth and DOMS. I mean, this is assuming that muscle hypertrophy is the goal. The idea that you can present a theory as sound without offering any proof seems a bit suspect but you choose instead to attack those that request some proof.

[The Ugly]

Unbelievable! We had comps for fun in the gym. Period. Why not try for a world record in a strength feat? That is an achievement.

Ok, fair enough. As far as hypertrophy, though, do you believe there is a single, unbending scientific law that dictates how a muscle grows for everyone, without exception?

[Vince B]

Point well taken. No One is an intelligent and thinking person. I just get turned off a bit by the arrogance. And lets not forget he's a long time heavy juicer including insulin and hgh. That changes things considerably.

Now I believe that TA has been clean for years and has attained a very advanced level given his self imposed restrictions. I would take what he says a bit more seriously. That's why I wanted to see if there was any real difference in progress and advancement other than how he feels in terms of body warmth and DOMS. I mean, this is assuming that muscle hypertrophy is the goal. The idea that you can present a theory as sound without offering any proof seems a bit suspect but you choose instead to attack those that request some proof.

I seldom attack people but I will try to kill what I consider are false theories. We all have an obligation to do that. Otherwise, how can we improve knowledge?

I am just about finished with a modification to my biceps-supinator machine. It is simpler now and more user friendly. I now have the tools to start getting

my arms bigger. Should be interesting.

[pellius]

given real life evidences of adaptation ie cyclists, roofers forearms, fat people's calves etc all of them had very advanced bodyparts just thru daily repetitive stress.

the roofer didn't have to increase the number of roofs he had to shingle in a day to keep developing his forearms, he simply kept pounding them every day. the cyclist doesn't have to cycle an extra 100km every week to develop a world class body part he just simply followed the same amount of mileage and training daily.

given those real world proofs^- the ones vince basille is looking for incidentally- once you reach the point where you can hit everything every day and recover in order to repeat the feat next time increasing workload or time under tension or even frequency isn't necessary. you just need to keep training and everything will keep developing.

My uncle owns a roofing and construction company and the employees run the gamut. A few look very strong and muscular but there are a lot that are fat and out of shape with very little muscular development. A classic case of just counting the hits but not the (majority) of misses. Same reason why people think a full moon influences aberrant behavior. People act crazy everyday but when it happens to be a full moon they look up into the sky and say, "See!"

It would stand to reason the construction workers would be on average stronger and more muscular than the average person but not because they do construction. It's just that if you are a weakling you are not going into a profession that requires you to be physically robust. It's like saying playing basketball makes you tall.