After Yesterday`s "No One" Machine Workout...

[pellius]

your mistaking not letting someone walk on me, or not putting up with bullshit as arrogance.

I'm one of the most humble / non attention seeking guys you will ever meet. ffs I went to the opening of drais pool in LV Memorial Day weekend and kept my shirt on all day. only guy in the place prolly to do so.

I stand by my convictions. that's not arrogance. that's confidence.

as to you other post I know I'm nothing special. I have admitted freely on this forum several times in the past I have shitty genetics. lol something special? that's funny. that's prolly more of a reflection of how you perceive me than anything.

so listen here. 99% of people in gyms around the world are 'nothing special'. they just love to train. the whys are individualistic. I'm one of those 99%. that doesn't mean I'm going to sit on my ass and not be the best I can be cause I got dealt a shit hand genetically- just like pretty much everyone reading this post. and if I can help someone who wants to be better and help them be better despite being 'nothing special' I'm more than fucking happy to do so.

lol 'nothing special' fuck you and your 'special'- I'm one the 99% who busts his ass every day and is proud of it and happy to do so and I wouldn't change it if I could cause I fucking earned every ounce of tissue I have.

Obviously I hit a nerve. Because I have questioned your system of training and wanted to see real world proof as to the results attained you made the comment "enjoy the mediocrity" as if to imply that is the logical consequence. Sure I am mediocre in the sense there is nothing about me that puts me far above the pack. But that has little or nothing to do with me subscribing to your training protocol. I pointed out the obvious incongruity of you calling me mediocre when you, yourself, are nothing special yet you subscribe and practice a protocol that you imply contributes to my lack of, well, greatness. Yet you presume to offer theories as breakthrough advancements yet offer no real world verifiable proof but simply make comments like "if you don't think this will work for you, great don't do it. stick to mediocrity.",  "if your happy to be a lazy trainer don't even bother reading past this line.", "don't ask me questions csuse I made this all very clear. if you don't get it your unintelligence will only be aggravating to me.", " I'm not going to debate defend or explain it. I don't give a fuck if you use this or not."

Then in the same breath you claim to be one of the most humble guys I'll ever meet and you offer as proof that you kept your shirt on at some pool party. Must have been tough as you were evaluating all the other shirtless males nodding to yourself as to your physical superiority and how you would put them all to shame and it was only your "humbleness" that kept your shirt on and avoid humiliating all the perceived betas. In reality most people don't give a crap about big muscles and look on bodybuilders as drugged up monkeys with low self-esteem.

My only issue is that when someone presents a theory or perceived breakthrough or advancement and then immediately shuts down all questions and debate. Clarification or a better understanding to what is presented is forbidden and we are only to take one's word for it. In this case, the word of a person how has achieved nothing in a field he is claiming to have some advance knowledge of.

I prefer and I'm always up for a lively debate and will take on all questions from all comers to defend my position. Even if it means I have been proven wrong. Which in some cases I have been. If my theories and/or beliefs are sound it should stand up to any scrutiny.

That's the difference between you and someone like Arthur Jones. Jones was no physical specimen. He was arrogant, difficult and dogmatic. But he was always up for a debate and answered serious and intelligent questions in the same manner as presented. He outlined in agonizing detail why both his equipment and training theories were sound and superior to those employed at the time.  He thought himself as superior to others but never presented himself as a God who should be listened and obeyed without question or be destined to a life of mediocrity.

Talk to people with respect and ixnay on the implied insults if you want the same back at you.

[pellius]

The few days into it I am still feeling pumped continually and extremely tight and extremely sore.  Keep in mind I am not coming off any layoff from the gym (never have had one) and have been continually working out, hard.  Its funny to think, that I have reduced my workout time by 30-50 minutes but am feeling it MUCH, MUCH more.  Keep in mind its the same workout that I had been doing.   I am keeping track of my progress and will be adjusting calories accordingly.  

How one feels does not necessarily translate into advancement.

I look forward to you outlining your progress.

[pellius]

fuck me read my posts properly before you rebuttal.

your in such a fucking hurry to throw me under the bus your comprehension is lacking.

roofers forearms before automatic nailers. not their fucking physiques. the muscle group the most often used repetitively. outstanding forearms.

your in such a fucking hurry to discredit me your making yourself look stupid.

you don't 'like' me. I get it. I'm not here for you.

carry on.

Wow! You really are a touchy and easily offended fellow. Let me state categorically that I do not dislike you. Actually, I've always considered you one of the top tier members on this board and I have complemented you routinely over the years. You have offered tons of information and even your insulin protocol is still a sticky on the gh 15 board when I was still there. Questioning your theories has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I like you and for you to take it that way does not reflect well on you.

I have said nothing to discredit your training protocol but only the fact that you present it as absolute truth and above any debate. 

I do not think old school roofers developed massive forearms due to being roofers. They got into roofing because it better matched their physical robustness than say someone with a build like Woody Allen.

[pellius]

Can you outline that routine again, thanks.

It's on IronAge which I think is now gone. But it went on about a dozen pages. And it was more than just a routine. A some point you have to transcend sets and reps.

Lets just say if I had to do it over again I wouldn't. There are some things more important than developed calves and I am a bit ashamed that I became so obsessed with them. But stand at nearly 6'2" and barely having 13 inch calves my insecurities did get the better of me. That shows more a weakness in my character and priorities then any fierce determination on my part.

[pellius]

they're me.

since I'm in an advise dispensing mood today I have some for pellius.

instead of bitching and crying about me trying to help people cause you find my personality abrasive get off your fucking ass and start your own thread and help people out.

the fuck is your problem? is this highschool? this a fucking popularity contest to you? this is called the free exchange of ideas and discussion for the betterment of those who wish to apply the ideas discussed.

how the fuck can you sit there and say to me 'it won't work?' even basille said he almost went to the idea of training everyday but 'conventional wisdom' stopped him.

I didn't let it stop me and what I found was rewarding. instead of crying about it get off your ass for 12 weeks and follow it to a T. if the adaptations that I said will happen don't take place then come back and bitch. until then shut the fuck up.

pretty simple concept.

Now questioning you is "bitching and crying"? And exactly where did I say it won't work.

The problem is not any abrasiveness on your part but that you are easily rattled emotionally. You had the moral high ground on Alex but he toyed with you because you
are so easily rattled.

Check your estro levels and ease up on the constant melt downs.

[pellius]

Not sure about the age difference, but I've seen pics of you both. Our Hawaiian brother's got huge balls criticizing your physique is all I gotta say.

o
When and where did I criticize his physique? The only comment I made regarding his physique on this thread is that I consider him an advance bodybuilder.

I don't even consider myself a bodybuilder as such -- advance or otherwise.

[pellius]

'a pic is worth a thousand words' type of reasoning; why aren't the words of the people who have success doing this proof enough? like TA started this what, two days ago? that's really good for him, i hope he keeps it up. there are people who have been doing it for months. pay attention.

 
 

Since bodybuilding is primarily if not entirely a visual "sport" pics, in lieu of an in person presentation, is how we measure one's progress. I would think this would be obvious.

If someone were presenting a weight loss program but could produce no actual physical evidence that such a transformation occurred it would render the program meaningless.

TA presents constant photos of alleged naturals as proof as to what can be attained through proper training and nutrition. He presents photos here about the physical difference between those that do different types of training. I simply asked that he present photos of himself showing the progress he claims to have made other than the subjective feelings of warmth and pump.

I never even asked No One about photos or even questioned his training protocol. I simply asked for real world physical evidence of progress and advancement claimed. TA remains silent on the issue whereas No One took personal offense and that I was trying to discredit him and "throw him under the bus".

[Vince B]

Is this no one?

I have presented my theory of hypertrophy here on the G & O board. I had to defend it against all experts and skeptics. I doubt anyone even tried my ideas. Most needed step by step protocols to know what to do! I figured an intelligent person should be able to proceed armed with the theory. Not so on Getbig.

Pellius is always fair in debates. He has one flaw, however, and that is he will persist and debate to the bitter end even with dicks and trolls. Sometimes it is better to walk away.

Some of us have been around training for a very long time. My experience goes back to 1958. Guys like Pellius and myself have tried most of the methods out there. Eventually we get a grasp on what bodybuilding is about. We can look at a method and make a pretty accurate judgement about its potential and effectiveness. We don't have to try everything.

I can design gym equipment that works when it is completed. That isn't so easy to do. Usually new machines require several prototypes before they work properly, etc. So experience is invaluable for designing machines and also for assessing bodybuilding methods. From what I have read here I doubt anyone is going to build much muscle using the no one method. You might make some modest gains for a few weeks then what? Up the dosage? Well, any method that is going to produce hypertrophy had better be effective for everyone and that includes natural bodybuilders.

Those here who are impressed with the body as a machine can participate and try no one's method. I can predict that Adonis won't make many gains. Let us see if I am right.

[Vince B]

If that is no one in the photo above he does have an excellent physique. A bit weak in the triceps. I have no doubt that I could put an inch on his arms in a month using my equipment and method. How about that?

[Vince B]

Almost entirely genetic predisposition. An ectomorph like Lance Armstrong would have never built thighs like these sprinters regardless how what he ate, hoe he trained, or even how much drugs he took.

This statement is probably false. Lance did long distance cycling for decades. How would we know what his capacity for hypertrophy is? No one is arguing that if you put the right stress on a body it will
respond by adapting. Suppose Lance stopped that distance riding and just did sprints and gym work for legs. I would predict he would grow significantly from those protocols. He might not that the capacity
to be as big as most of the champion sprinters but he would be bigger than most endurance cyclists.

[Vince B]

Yes he would have been bigger than he was when he was riding the TDF and purposefully keeping his body weight down but he doesn't have the genetics for heavy musculature. If he did he never would have been the cyclist and triathlete that he was.

It is always speculation about what muscular potential anyone has. We literally do not know what our or anyone else's genetics are. Yes, we can observe that some are naturally slender and so on, however, we have all seen guys show up at a gym with almost no potential and yet they persisted and became quite large. So we can't know what Lance was capable of because he probably won't give bodybuilding a go.

On the other hand, I do agree that all of us when going to school get to try various sports and probably take up those we do well in. If you are tall they want you in the basketball team. If you can run fast they want you in the track team or football team. If you are strong they want you in the football team or perhaps wrestling and definitely weightlifting.

[Straw Man]

My uncle owns a roofing and construction company and the employees run the gamut. A few look very strong and muscular but there are a lot that are fat and out of shape with very little muscular development. A classic case of just counting the hits but not the (majority) of misses. Same reason why people think a full moon influences aberrant behavior. People act crazy everyday but when it happens to be a full moon they look up into the sky and say, "See!"

It would stand to reason the construction workers would be on average stronger and more muscular than the average person but not because they do construction. It's just that if you are a weakling you are not going into a profession that requires you to be physically robust. It's like saying playing basketball makes you tall.

good post

[Vince B]

No gym owner could have predicted what Larry became.

[Parker]

We have this down pretty much to a science now. When the scout with the D-1 college football scholarship comes to look at a 16 year-old boy (no homo) he can pretty much tell how the boy will develop based on things like bone structure, musculature, etc. He will even look at the parents. There will be some exceptions of course but 99 percent of the time he will be right. He can't afford not to be.

Flex Wheeler was a scrawny kid, nobody thought that he would be what he was. And even as a bodybuilder he looked better light. It was also thanks to his light frame that he looked the way he did.

Besides haven't you seen average height parents with 6'5 monster sons?

[tommywishbone]

Ah yes... the science of bodybuilding.   

[Parker]

Ah yes... the science of bodybuilding.   

The only sicence we know, is "bro science", ok bro?

[Vince B]

There is plenty of science relating to muscles. The trouble is very few people can comprehend the research.

[cephissus]

We have this down pretty much to a science now. When the scout with the D-1 college football scholarship comes to look at a 16 year-old boy (no homo) he can pretty much tell how the boy will develop based on things like bone structure, musculature, etc. He will even look at the parents. There will be some exceptions of course but 99 percent of the time he will be right. He can't afford not to be.

"ectomorph"

[mr.turbo]

any system will produce results beyond walking into the gym and training randomly.

If you train though DOMS how do you know you're developing muscle and not inflammation?

a gorilla sits around all day eating fruit and insects. what do we learn from that?

 look forward to seeing the latest supinating apparatus

[Master Blaster]

big muscle = drugs

 

There are no drug free mass monsters

[The Ugly]

When and where did I criticize his physique?  

You're an advance bodybuilder but certainly nothing special. If you were you would have won something. There are tons of guys in every nowhere gym in the world going through the motions that blow you away.

Now you didn't exactly tell him to get his shinebox, but you insulted him a little bit. You got a little bit out of order yourself.... I'm sorry. You insulted him a little bit.

[The Ugly]

If that is no one in the photo above he does have an excellent physique. A bit weak in the triceps. I have no doubt that I could put an inch on his arms in a month using my equipment and method. How about that?

This is a silly claim, and you know it. Would you promise Dennis Wolf a specific calve size increase if he were to train under you for x amount of time?

No one can predict genetic limitations; to assert or imply otherwise is simply dishonest.

[Vince B]

This is a silly claim, and you know it. Would you promise Dennis Wolf a specific calve size increase if he were to train under you for x amount of time?

No one can predict genetic limitations; to assert or imply otherwise is simply dishonest.

I told both Luke Wood and Milos Sarcev I could help them get bigger arms. Luke died before he had a chance. Milos was angry when he read that but we sorted things out.

His training is somewhat like what no one recommends. I prefer longer rests and heavier resistance. I doubt whether lighter weights can build huge arms.

From the photo of no one I can see he has the potential for larger arms, especially triceps. Well, if he used my machines and equipment and followed my

protocols he should gain some size within a month. Half inch at least and maybe more. These guys never show up at my gym to see what I could do for

them.

[no one]

Wow! You really are a touchy and easily offended fellow. Let me state categorically that I do not dislike you. Actually, I've always considered you one of the top tier members on this board and I have complemented you routinely over the years. You have offered tons of information and even your insulin protocol is still a sticky on the gh 15 board when I was still there. Questioning your theories has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I like you and for you to take it that way does not reflect well on you.

I have said nothing to discredit your training protocol but only the fact that you present it as absolute truth and above any debate.  

I do not think old school roofers developed massive forearms due to being roofers. They got into roofing because it better matched their physical robustness than say someone with a build like Woody Allen.

what in the fuck are you talking about. lol holy fuck. re read what i just enbolded and please tell me where i said anything about roofers getting into roofing because they big forearms.
 
are you fucking kidding me? like how is someone this stupid.

like im not even going to bother explaining myself for the THIRD fucking time.

you say im emotional? dude its not emotion. its not being able to deal well with stupidity- its a trait a lot of intelligent people have in common- they become easily frustrated w stupidity.

are you on painkillers? this is serious question and would explain a lot.

[no one]

hey vince im glad to see you posting here yet. i like your post about heavier resistance in relation to the size of the muscle. that makes sense to me. the reason i like to run the pump is that i find i get a much better response from training that way and i was what you'd call a heavy lifter for prolly 3/4's of my training career.

that being said my running the pump isnt curling 15lb dumbells. when i run the pump im reaching muscular fatigue every set. so, in that i think that the 'weight' being used is sufficent heavy to generate what results i desire. running the pump doesnt mean training lazy or light.

yes, that is me in that pic. and there are several other pics on this board of me.

what burns my ass about pellius asking for 'proof' is exactly what he touched on- in 10 years of posts regarding training, diet and anabolics usage i have never once had anyone stand up and say 'i followed that rountine/ that cycle advise/ that diet and its bullshit- it didnt work worth a fuck'. i have almost 800 pms in my inbox. i dont know how many of them are people i have never heard of thanking me and and saying 'i took your advise and its working'.

just like with everything else i have given advise about, i came here with this and i said this is a routine i invented. i said this is what you can expect to have happen over the x amount of weeks you are on it. i said this is the results it will manifest.

proof? what fucking more proof do you need? double blind studies? i did it. i walk the walk. i dont bullshit. i bust balls on here a lot but when it comes to solid advise im the straight goods.

this is all very frustrating for me. 10 years ive been trying to help people. and every single time i post something like this i gotta go thru the same fucking bullshit with the same fucking kind of small minded / closed minded people. naysayers critics and loudmouths. basically people who couldnt hold my fucking bag in the gym.

anyway vince the last part of this post isnt aimed at you. i think the discussion of all ideas often shapes and hones rough stones into brilliant diamonds. this could be no different. but to have guys pipe up about how this has been around forever, how it wont work, how you dont need this when they obviously havent even taken the time to read what the system entails, just a bunch of fat sloppy know it alls who havent broken 10%bf in the 10 years of doing the same routines sitting on their computer repeating the same bullshit i can find on any bbing board on the web.

like how the fuck can i not get frustrated.