After Yesterday`s "No One" Machine Workout...

[The Abdominal Snoman]

[The Abdominal Snoman]

[SF1900]

I just had a workout on my biceps-supinator. Brutal arm workout combined with triceps extensions on modified Nautilus machine.

I always superset bis and tris and today I did so with no rest after each superset. Did that for 4 sets then a short break and then a few more sets.

If you can superset using opposite muscles then perhaps reducing the rest will work and you can avoid the heavy weights. As you progress with

this protocol you can of course increase the resistance.

I always keep an open mind about hypertrophy and perhaps there are many equivalent means to the same end. However, we all have to stimulate

the muscles and the same symptoms will be there no matter which means we used. Pump, shaking, fullness, exhaustion, etc.

[Hulkotron]

haha

[SF1900]

haha

I would like to take credit for that photoshop but I cannot. I did put in the request, but someone else made it for me. I am sure you know who  

[The Abdominal Snoman]

LMFAO!!!

[no one]

updates? TA? VC?

i took a day off yesterday (still did hit cardio in the a.m.), can't remember the last time i did. weird feeling today, like i have an overabundance of energy that i didn't use up.

able to smash more sets in same time, vary exercises.

people ask me if they can 'work in'. no. you can't. but you can wait for the machine cause i'll be done my 10 sets in oh, about 4 minutes. so fuck off in the meantime.

no one, someone posted a question about routines - to cycle through exercises (back, chest, legs, etc) or just hit each body part in order. my understanding was that it makes more sense to destroy each body part individually before moving onto the next, keep the muscles warm and pumped, etc. i'm sure others might appreciate a response from you.

sorry i missed it. pelvis' stalking is causing me to skip entire pages on this thread.

i do one body part before i go onto the next. but there are times i overlap if i feel really good when training one part and dont want to stop. so i'll be doing shoulders, then i'll start chest then i'll sneak back and do a few more sets of shoulders while im training chest.

[monstermunch]

 

[pellius]

Let us step back and look at the stimulus required to cause an already highly trained muscle to grow bigger. I have read about thresholds when it comes to intensity and it is something like over 75% and probably closer to 80% that is required. If you can do 1 rep with 400 lbs in the bench press then you need somewhere between 300 and 320 pounds to have sufficient intensity. If you use 300 pounds then you should get from 8 to 10 reps with the 300 and from 6 to 8 reps with 320. Then all you need to do is many sets with that resistance and perhaps you will grow. I recommend 5 or 6 heavy sets using the same resistance.

What bodybuilders discovered is that they cannot keep adding weight to the bar. So they added sets. Weight is also added over time as well, so there is always a progression. The accumulation of waste products from those hard sets is what stimulates the muscle to grow.

So along comes no one who discards everything that has been learned over the last 6 decades and suggests we train with greater frequency without rest between the sets. I am not buying this. Sure, severe protocols can work for a while but even he recommends taking anabolics if growth slows. That really is disappointing because the true theory of hypertrophy should allow one to keep progressing with or without drugs.

I still believe there is a correlation between muscle size and how much you can lift. I believe there is a direct causation between muscle size and contractile strength, i.e., how strong the muscle is. The bigger the muscle the stronger it will be. The greater the contractile strength.

The reason one is no longer able to keep adding weight, get stronger, is that they have reached the upper limits of their muscular size. Even enhanced bodybuilders reach this sticking point. Jay could never get bigger after his last Olympia win and neither could Ronnie after after 2003. You can play with conditioning but as far as adding appreciable lean muscle it's not going to happen unless there is some new break through in PEDs.

[pellius]

Let us step back and look at the stimulus required to cause an already highly trained muscle to grow bigger. I have read about thresholds when it comes to intensity and it is something like over 75% and probably closer to 80% that is required. If you can do 1 rep with 400 lbs in the bench press then you need somewhere between 300 and 320 pounds to have sufficient intensity. If you use 300 pounds then you should get from 8 to 10 reps with the 300 and from 6 to 8 reps with 320. Then all you need to do is many sets with that resistance and perhaps you will grow. I recommend 5 or 6 heavy sets using the same resistance.

What bodybuilders discovered is that they cannot keep adding weight to the bar. So they added sets. Weight is also added over time as well, so there is always a progression. The accumulation of waste products from those hard sets is what stimulates the muscle to grow.

So along comes no one who discards everything that has been learned over the last 6 decades and suggests we train with greater frequency without rest between the sets. I am not buying this. Sure, severe protocols can work for a while but even he recommends taking anabolics if growth slows. That really is disappointing because the true theory of hypertrophy should allow one to keep progressing with or without drugs.

Also, in regard to intensity, surely someone doing a one rep max at 400lbs is exerting maximum momentary intensity as he couldn't do 2 reps or do one rep with 405 lbs. But I don't think anyone will claim that is enough to trigger an adaptive response. There is something often referred to as "inroads". How deep you dig into the muscle group (for lack of a better analogy). But how deep do you go? Six reps? Twenty reps? Three sets? Twenty sets?

I think Coleman decided to do a high rep program (15-20 reps) for his last O. Well, he was not at his best. But was this because of switching to high reps or simply age. I think he decided to do higher reps, and therefore use lighter weights, simply who could not handle the poundages he could before.

[The True Adonis]

I still believe there is a correlation between muscle size and how much you can lift. I believe there is a direct causation between muscle size and contractile strength, i.e., how strong the muscle is. The bigger the muscle the stronger it will be. The greater the contractile strength.

The reason one is no longer able to keep adding weight, get stronger, is that they have reached the upper limits of their muscular size. Even enhanced bodybuilders reach this sticking point. Jay could never get bigger after his last Olympia win and neither could Ronnie after after 2003. You can play with conditioning but as far as adding appreciable lean muscle it's not going to happen unless there is some new break through in PEDs.

[pellius]

You can't compare two different individuals. Way too many factors at play. What I'm saying is that if you, TA, get considerably bigger in terms of lean muscle mass, you will be stronger. And there is a difference between pure contractile strength of a muscle and the ability to move more weight. That's why even though a body builder may have bigger muscles than a power lifter they can't lift as much weight as that power lifter. There is technique and neurological efficiency involved in, say, a bench press that is also in play. One can develop a tremendous chest without benching a lot or even benching at all.

[The True Adonis]

You can't compare two different individuals. Way too many factors at play. What I'm saying is that if you, TA, get considerably bigger in terms of lean muscle mass, you will be stronger. And there is a difference between pure contractile strength of a muscle and the ability to move more weight. That's why even though a body builder may have bigger muscles than a power lifter they can't lift as much weight as that power lifter. There is technique and neurological efficiency involved in, say, a bench press that is also in play. One can develop a tremendous chest without benching a lot or even benching at all.

All I know is the ones who move big weight, 600-700 lb bench press, 800 plus squats look like shit.  When dieted down, they look like shit too.

[Vince B]

Wow, this morning my arms and especially biceps are bigger! This is the first time I can remember experiencing DOMS in my biceps. They are sore right down to the insertions in the elbows. I have proven to myself that my biceps-supinator machine is the most effective biceps exercise there is. Triceps are sore, too, which is great. Now, if I can keep the muscles sore I should keep them growing. I measured them this morning and I have added 3/8" to my arms in one workout. I have never added more than 1/8" in a day before. This is really exciting to me.

[Vince B]

I still believe there is a correlation between muscle size and how much you can lift. I believe there is a direct causation between muscle size and contractile strength, i.e., how strong the muscle is. The bigger the muscle the stronger it will be. The greater the contractile strength.

The reason one is no longer able to keep adding weight, get stronger, is that they have reached the upper limits of their muscular size. Even enhanced bodybuilders reach this sticking point. Jay could never get bigger after his last Olympia win and neither could Ronnie after after 2003. You can play with conditioning but as far as adding appreciable lean muscle it's not going to happen unless there is some new break through in PEDs.

Yes, there is a correlation between muscle size and strength. However, you can sometimes get stronger but not necessarily bigger. What will cause more size are incremental strength increases while doing plenty of

sets.

If you have ever entered a power-lifting meet you know that doing maximum singles does cause DOMS and therefore muscle growth. It is just a dangerous way to train for any length of time.

What I found years ago re triceps is that some exercises are more effective than others. If you don't do the effective exercises then that will limit the size of the muscles. I am confident that anyone

training biceps on my machine will get bigger biceps. No worries there at all.

[SF1900]

Wow, this morning my arms and especially biceps are bigger! This is the first time I can remember experiencing DOMS in my biceps. They are sore right down to the insertions in the elbows. I have proven to myself that my biceps-supinator machine is the most effective biceps exercise there is. Triceps are sore, too, which is great. Now, if I can keep the muscles sore I should keep them growing. I measured them this morning and I have added 3/8" to my arms in one workout. I have never added more than 1/8" in a day before. This is really exciting to me.

[Vince B]

What a bunch of tools here on Getbig. I discovered a breakthrough in arm training at 72 and put 3/8 inch on my arms from one severe workout. This is an important day for hypertrophy as far as I am concerned.

[King Shizzo]

What a bunch of tools here on Getbig. I discovered a breakthrough in arm training at 72 and put 3/8 inch on my arms from one severe workout. This is an important day for hypertrophy as far as I am concerned.

Its called swelling.

[Vince B]

Its called swelling.

Yes, we know about inflammation. However, unless there is inflammation there can be no growth. So some of that 'swelling' is hypertrophy. I have no doubt about it.

Years ago we read about all day programs to add half an inch to the arms. We tried training arms for 8 hours on two occasions and the most anyone gained was 1/8 inch. Most gained nothing at all.

So for me to gain 3/8 inch in one day is amazing. I have argued before that it is still possible to build muscle at any age. Just about everyone here scoffed at the idea. Well, it can and will happen

as long as you train right with the best equipment.

[SF1900]

Yes, we know about inflammation. However, unless there is inflammation there can be no growth. So some of that 'swelling' is hypertrophy. I have no doubt about it.

Years ago we read about all day programs to add half an inch to the arms. We tried training arms for 8 hours on two occasions and the most anyone gained was 1/8 inch. Most gained nothing at all.

So for me to gain 3/8 inch in one day is amazing. I have argued before that it is still possible to build muscle at any age. Just about everyone here scoffed at the idea. Well, it can and will happen

as long as you train right with the best equipment.

[njflex]

All I know is the ones who move big weight, 600-700 lb bench press, 800 plus squats look like shit.  When dieted down, they look like shit too.

lean legs thats all,due to heavy body mass he carried and squatting 'the density'he developed there..legs look pretty good there..

[pellius]

All I know is the ones who move big weight, 600-700 lb bench press, 800 plus squats look like shit.  When dieted down, they look like shit too.

Really. ALL trainers who can move a lot of weight look like shit? Remember Ronnie Coleman?

Even bodybuilders who aren't considered strong: Jay Cutler, Phil Heath, Dexter... are in reality incredibly strong. Insanely strong. Maybe not by powerlifting standards or even bodybuilder standards, but by human being standards, gym rat standards, they are exceptional. Doing, say, ten reps ass to ankles squat with 315 is incredibly strong and puts you in the upper 10% of the population.

The fellow you posted is very, very strong for his weight but not physically impressive. But can you doubt that if you were to add 30 lbs of lean muscle to his frame he would not be even stronger? To say that there is no correlation between muscle size and muscle strength simply does not comport with common sense and real world experience. A marked increase in muscle mass leads also to an increase in strength and vice versa.

[pellius]

Yes, there is a correlation between muscle size and strength. However, you can sometimes get stronger but not necessarily bigger. What will cause more size are incremental strength increases while doing plenty of

sets.

If you have ever entered a power-lifting meet you know that doing maximum singles does cause DOMS and therefore muscle growth. It is just a dangerous way to train for any length of time.

What I found years ago re triceps is that some exercises are more effective than others. If you don't do the effective exercises then that will limit the size of the muscles. I am confident that anyone

training biceps on my machine will get bigger biceps. No worries there at all.

Yes, you can increase the weight of your lifts without getting bigger. Power/Olympic lifters do so all the time. They increase their lifts while remaining in the same weight class. But there are many other factors in play in moving weight than just pure muscle strength.

And you are quite right that there are some exercises more productive to muscle hypertrophy than others. I consider the tricep kick backs with a dumbbell to be probably on of the more useless tricep exrecises out there regardless of the pump one feels. I can feel a pump doing the kick backs with no weight at all. Just the contraction alone is enough for a pump.

[no one]

strength is a by product of training. you could even call it a side effect of training.

you do not need to increase your strength to increase your lean mass.

but as you increase your lean mass so also your strength will increase. there actually needs not even be a significant increase or any measurable increase in lean mass to become 'stronger'. strength an adaptative response of the body to the stress of training.

don't put the cart before the horse.

[pellius]

strength is a by product of training. you could even call it a side effect of training.

you do not need to increase your strength to increase your lean mass.

but as you increase your lean mass so also your strength will increase. there actually needs not even be a significant increase or any measurable increase in lean mass to become 'stronger'. strength an adaptative response of the body to the stress of training.

don't put the cart before the horse.

I would agree somewhat but I believe that strictly speaking I would say that you don't have to move more weight/resistance to increase muscle size and yes, that increase in muscle size always leads to an increase in the strength/contractile force of the muscle. That's why I was careful to say there was a correlation, not causation, between strength and size.