People who don't earn a university degree

[Primemuscle]

I'm blue collar white trash, I have to work 60 hours just to keep up with the poverty line. College folk like to tell how "you could have worked harder and been this or that and made more money and blah blah blah"

I tell them the same thing. They could have been a brain surgeon or an astronaut and made much more money themselves.  Then they start about how they're happy where they're at as if a less materialistic person, such as myself, can't be as well. Their happiness depends on whether or not they have the nicest car (usually one they don't like that is unreliable and won't actually be paid for until they're 70 if they skip meals and go without heat during the winter) or biggest TV screen (because that's what's important in life).

I too worked in "blue collar jobs" like you. Fortunately, I never had to work 60 hours a week to make ends meet. My wife also worked much of our life together with the exception of a few years off when our children were very young.

I was a renegade in my family. My father and both grandfathers were college educated. One grandfather was a very successful lawyer with a Harvard law degree. The other grandfather was a dental surgeon and later Dean of the dental school at the University of Michigan. My father had a degree in structural engineering.

As I mentioned before, my stepdad was a well paid painting contractor whose formal education ended when he graduated from the 8th grade. He also worked 6 or 7 days a week and rarely had time for recreation and family.

I chose a different path from all of them. Other than having enough income to get by, making lots of money was never my goal. Good fortune and luck provided well for me and my family overtime. I feel very fortunate to be comfortably retired with no money worries whatsoever. We've also benefited financially from inheriting money from some of our wealthier family.

[pedro01]

I finished school at 18. I then got a graduate job, despite the fact I have no degree. When my friends finished their degrees, they ended up 3-4 years behind me. I ended up running a company for an MNC and I now run my own company.

As roughly half of this was due to judgement and the rest due to good luck/'right place, right time' - it is VERY likely that had I done the degree, I would be in a poorer position right now.

I am sure times have changed but back in '88 when I started working, the degree only really helped you to get your first job. After that it was all about experience and reputation. I managed to get into a field that clicked with me and a niche in that field that came easy to me. So I got a reputation because of being one of the best in that niche. Pure luck that I applied to work with a company that used that niche technology.

My own company came about because fuckwits in the financial industry lost 30% of my net worth. That ended up in me going down a path that now supports me. Again, some luck & some judgement.

About 5 years ago, I mentored a girl through her Phd thesis. The whole thing struck me as being total nonsense. She put together a nice long thesis, that was then reviewed a number of times by people that had ZERO real world experience & now she's "Dr".  She is very smart on paper but when she has stuff she can't figure out, she comes to me.

Saying that, I've seen some of the on line video courses from Yale and I have to say some are excellent. This one stands out...

&feature=plcp

[James28]

Funny these people that say 'Well Michael Dell/Gates/Whoever don't have degrees and look at them today'

Yes dickhead, because the average person are directly comparable to Bill Gates. Who by the way, had a technical SKILL that billions of people don't have. But I understand why people need to justify their lack of education in such a way.

Unless you start your own business, you'll be at the bottom of the food chain your whole life.

[D.O.A.]

Guessing no degree?

[Primemuscle]

Funny these people that say 'Well Michael Dell/Gates/Whoever don't have degrees and look at them today'

Yes dickhead, because the average person are directly comparable to Bill Gates. Who by the way, had a technical SKILL that billions of people don't have. But I understand why people need to justify their lack of education in such a way.

Unless you start your own business, you'll be at the bottom of the food chain your whole life.

You make this sound so absolute. On average, I think you are right about a lacking education with regards to the culture in the U.S. However, there are always exceptions. Furthermore, being highly educated does not ensure financial success.

[James28]

Troll score: 0/10

PS: a BA/BS isn't worth shit these days. The best coder I ever hired had a fucking GED.

C'mon man, we both know coding is pretty much an exception to the rule. I'm a former programmer myself and despite doing a Computer Science degree, sucked compared to some self taught programmers that passionate about the stuff. In fact. my 'go to' guy when I got stuck were my pal's 16 year old brother. This was long before Stack Overflow or C-Sharp Corner. I had to sweat the details myself straight from the manuals.

He wrote his own compilers and graphics engines for 'fun'. Today he works for Sony on their game consoles architecture. He could have done an African Studies degree and still became a programming God.

You gotta love it to do it.

[pedro01]

Funny these people that say 'Well Michael Dell/Gates/Whoever don't have degrees and look at them today'

Yes dickhead, because the average person are directly comparable to Bill Gates. Who by the way, had a technical SKILL that billions of people don't have. But I understand why people need to justify their lack of education in such a way.

Unless you start your own business, you'll be at the bottom of the food chain your whole life.

More down to earth then...

In the late 90's, I was earning $900 per day, plus expenses on long term contracts. That was when $900 a day was a lot of money...

My last salaried job had a basic salary of $180,000 per year.

This obviously does not make me Billy Gates. I believe it puts me above average.

I have no degree. Left school at 18.

Universities don't teach common sense. They don't teach the ability to adapt. They don't teach the ability to learn quickly. They don't teach you how to deal with corporate assholes looking to stab you in the back.

[Primemuscle]

More down to earth then...

In the late 90's, I was earning $900 per day, plus expenses on long term contracts. That was when $900 a day was a lot of money...

My last salaried job had a basic salary of $180,000 per year.

This obviously does not make me Billy Gates. I believe it puts me above average.

I have no degree. Left school at 18.

Universities don't teach common sense. They don't teach the ability to adapt. They don't teach the ability to learn quickly. They don't teach you how to deal with corporate assholes looking to stab you in the back.

I suggest at that income level, you've done well for yourself, better than most folks.

[James28]

More down to earth then...

In the late 90's, I was earning $900 per day, plus expenses on long term contracts. That was when $900 a day was a lot of money...

My last salaried job had a basic salary of $180,000 per year.

This obviously does not make me Billy Gates. I believe it puts me above average.

I have no degree. Left school at 18.

Universities don't teach common sense. They don't teach the ability to adapt. They don't teach the ability to learn quickly. They don't teach you how to deal with corporate assholes looking to stab you in the back.

I've started typing a reply to your other post but phone rang and got sidetracked. I was going to say that you're an exception. For your success without a degree, there's a 100 other guys that didn't 'make' it.

I know you guys want to argue this point, but a degree differentiate you from the guy that don't have one when your CVs get to the hiring manager. There are industries more forgiving with lack of formal education, IT and Construction immediately comes to mind, but once you get to management level, it's going to start hurting you.

[rooseveltdunn]

I've started typing a reply to your other post but phone rang and got sidetracked. I was going to say that you're an exception. For your success without a degree, there's a 100 other guys that didn't 'make' it.

I know you guys want to argue this point, but a degree differentiate you from the guy that don't have one when your CVs get to the hiring manager. There are industries more forgiving with lack of formal education, IT and Construction immediately comes to mind, but once you get to management level, it's going to start hurting you.

These days even IT jobs require degrees, you make very good points though

[The Ugly]

I know, but I've done it myself.

Yes, toolish.

[HonestBob]

I've started typing a reply to your other post but phone rang and got sidetracked. I was going to say that you're an exception. For your success without a degree, there's a 100 other guys that didn't 'make' it.

I know you guys want to argue this point, but a degree differentiate you from the guy that don't have one when your CVs get to the hiring manager. There are industries more forgiving with lack of formal education, IT and Construction immediately comes to mind, but once you get to management level, it's going to start hurting you.

I think both you and Pedro both make very valid and good points.

I think about formal tertiary education much more now that I have children and at the end of the day I want my kids to get the best degrees from the handful of top universities out there.  It will not guarantee them success but a top tier Academic institution on your CV opens doors and continues to be an advantage all your life.  I went to Oxford and my business partner went to Cambridge - these are things people latch onto even now decades later.  And my academic qualifications mean literally fuck all to what I do.

But ultimately education is all about what you do with it and the vast majority do fuck all.

I know many Phds in my industry and most of them are useless sacks of shit.

I also agree wholeheartedly with the getting your foot through the door comment for younger guys.  Quality business experience and exposure helps entrepreneurs to learn some lessons, now more so than ever, and it is really tough to get that without a good degree / nepotism.

[kreator]

.

[Mawse]

No degree here and barely scraping by making 3 x what the internet says the average is for masters degree holders.

Poor me

[catracho]

No degree here and barely scraping by making 3 x what the internet says the average is for masters degree holders.

Poor me

Only 3?  yeah your life sucks! 

[Immortal_Technique]

People who don't earn a university degree tend to have a superficial view of the world, and their opinions are often those of others. They believe everything they hear (i.e. news stories, rumors), they sorely lack in critical thinking, and typically are unable to comprehend rudimentary concepts. Hence, most companies won't even consider a non-college grad for a white collar position. A Bachelor's Degree is the price of admission to being taken seriously in high society, and even that is a bare minimum. A graduate degree ia really what's needed

Which one of your parents taught you this?

[FitnessFrenzy]

most successful business owners, regardless of their educational background, really enjoy what they do. That is my personal experience.

Talked to a guy recently who owns several Ferraris and Lamborghinis. He works 60 hours per week or more, and he wouldn't want to live any other way.

[Mr. No]

I'm guessing a lot of Getbiggers have 'School of Hard Knocks' listed as their university on Facebook.

[pedro01]

I've started typing a reply to your other post but phone rang and got sidetracked. I was going to say that you're an exception. For your success without a degree, there's a 100 other guys that didn't 'make' it.

I know you guys want to argue this point, but a degree differentiate you from the guy that don't have one when your CVs get to the hiring manager. There are industries more forgiving with lack of formal education, IT and Construction immediately comes to mind, but once you get to management level, it's going to start hurting you.

I disagree but mostly because we have different ideas on how to find employment. Many people have only one approach & that's sending a resume to a hiring manager and getting an interview.

I last got a job that way 24 years ago. Since then I spent a lot of time as a freelance consultant. I eventually decided to settle and by word of mouth and networking, I landed a regional directors job in Asia. That went tits up because I didn't want to join a management buy out and then I found a firm and sold them on the merits of setting up out here. I was still an employee but running a company I recommended they create.

It's all been about networking/word of mouth since I did the consulting.

What I would never do is pick up a trade journal/newspaper and start sending a resume in. That relies so much on timing and chance that it seems the worst approach. Think about it - a company might be planning to hire a bunch of people in 3-6 months time, they might be talking about it, budgeting, making plans but only at a certain time will they advertise. So you need to make people aware of who you are (well, who you say you are) and what you can do. You end up on their horizon as they are making plans.

I'm not saying this would work for every job at every level but when it comes to management roles, this approach makes a lot more sense to me than waiting for firms to advertise.

I landed a graduate job at 18 by looking for companies advertising, then researching for the appropriate directors name. I sent them personal letters telling them who I was and what I had to offer, asking innocently if they had anything. Some thought I had initiative (when really I just knew I couldn't apply the normal way)  and I got roped into aptitude tests. The first interview I had, I got my first job. Of course, I'm no fool and I do realize they could pay me less.

I know graduates that wouldn't have the sense take that sort of initiative at 35 years old. That's the sort of thing they don't teach in school.

[Primemuscle]

I disagree but mostly because we have different ideas on how to find employment. Many people have only one approach & that's sending a resume to a hiring manager and getting an interview.

I last got a job that way 24 years ago. Since then I spent a lot of time as a freelance consultant. I eventually decided to settle and by word of mouth and networking, I landed a regional directors job in Asia. That went tits up because I didn't want to join a management buy out and then I found a firm and sold them on the merits of setting up out here. I was still an employee but running a company I recommended they create.

It's all been about networking/word of mouth since I did the consulting.

What I would never do is pick up a trade journal/newspaper and start sending a resume in. That relies so much on timing and chance that it seems the worst approach. Think about it - a company might be planning to hire a bunch of people in 3-6 months time, they might be talking about it, budgeting, making plans but only at a certain time will they advertise. So you need to make people aware of who you are (well, who you say you are) and what you can do. You end up on their horizon as they are making plans.

I'm not saying this would work for every job at every level but when it comes to management roles, this approach makes a lot more sense to me than waiting for firms to advertise.

I landed a graduate job at 18 by looking for companies advertising, then researching for the appropriate directors name. I sent them personal letters telling them who I was and what I had to offer, asking innocently if they had anything. Some thought I had initiative (when really I just knew I couldn't apply the normal way)  and I got roped into aptitude tests. The first interview I had, I got my first job. Of course, I'm no fool and I do realize they could pay me less.

I know graduates that wouldn't have the sense take that sort of initiative at 35 years old. That's the sort of thing they don't teach in school.

Many of the best opportunities are via networking. A lot of resumés end up in the round file.

[The True Adonis]

I disagree but mostly because we have different ideas on how to find employment. Many people have only one approach & that's sending a resume to a hiring manager and getting an interview.

I last got a job that way 24 years ago. Since then I spent a lot of time as a freelance consultant. I eventually decided to settle and by word of mouth and networking, I landed a regional directors job in Asia. That went tits up because I didn't want to join a management buy out and then I found a firm and sold them on the merits of setting up out here. I was still an employee but running a company I recommended they create.

It's all been about networking/word of mouth since I did the consulting.

What I would never do is pick up a trade journal/newspaper and start sending a resume in. That relies so much on timing and chance that it seems the worst approach. Think about it - a company might be planning to hire a bunch of people in 3-6 months time, they might be talking about it, budgeting, making plans but only at a certain time will they advertise. So you need to make people aware of who you are (well, who you say you are) and what you can do. You end up on their horizon as they are making plans.

I'm not saying this would work for every job at every level but when it comes to management roles, this approach makes a lot more sense to me than waiting for firms to advertise.

I landed a graduate job at 18 by looking for companies advertising, then researching for the appropriate directors name. I sent them personal letters telling them who I was and what I had to offer, asking innocently if they had anything. Some thought I had initiative (when really I just knew I couldn't apply the normal way)  and I got roped into aptitude tests. The first interview I had, I got my first job. Of course, I'm no fool and I do realize they could pay me less.

I know graduates that wouldn't have the sense take that sort of initiative at 35 years old. That's the sort of thing they don't teach in school.

Those days of doing what you did are long gone.

[pedro01]

Those days of doing what you did are long gone.

Not they aren't.

I know plenty of people that are still doing this. In fact, a close friend (with no degree) is going through this process now and is mulling over a number of offers. Some of those start in Q1/Q2 2015 - as I said, it puts you ahead of the curve, although if you want something right now, that's not always desirable.

When was the last time you tried this and failed?

[Griffith]

Not they aren't.

I know plenty of people that are still doing this. In fact, a close friend (with no degree) is going through this process now and is mulling over a number of offers. Some of those start in Q1/Q2 2015 - as I said, it puts you ahead of the curve, although if you want something right now, that's not always desirable.

When was the last time you tried this and failed?

But what type of jobs?

[pedro01]

But what type of jobs?

Senior Management/Business Development roles mostly...

Helping with start-ups and fuck-ups.

[phil mcgroin]

Really?  Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard and never got his degree. Real failure 'eh.

I have a masters and doctorate and I'm replying to your post on getbig.
My ed-ja-ma-kay-shun really made me rich and successful .

Really?Thats one of the stupidest remarks .Anyone with any ability to think sees past that stement