The Epic Slow Progress of being Lifetime Natural

[no one]

sorry dude, my mistake. totally misread.

i'm not really buying it though. you're setting up a "no true scotsman" defense by basically stating that a maxed out natural looks like X ergo any natural who doesn't have X amount of muscle tissue isn't truly maxed out. you take a guy with naturally low testosterone and a slow thyroid up against a guy who burns fat 24/7 with high test and no matter what you do the 2nd guy is going to be bigger than the first. you might be able to say there is an apex of natural development, but it is 100% incorrect to think that all humans are capable of attaining it.

when i worked as a counselor at a group home there was this 14 year old kid named dylan. he was about 5'6 and 300lb or so. did not lift weights much, played a little football in middle school but that was it. the charter school we took them to had a little gym in it and they were allowed to use the machines. one machine was one of those old-ass smiths that was just a bare olympic bar on some runners and god damn i witnessed this kid, his first time attempting squatting, hit 475lb, with no belt and wearing a ratty ass pair of nikes, on that bar sitting on a bench that was roughly parallel for him. shit, i can't do that NOW. we had this one kid who was in our program for about two years and, despite eating the shitty food we fed him and having almost no access to gym equipment, left that place with shoulders and arms that looked better than a bunch of guys i knew when i wrestled in high school.

genetics aren't just a factor in one's body development, they are THE factor. some people are going to be skinny mother fuckers all their lives. some people are going to fight to keep their body fat under 15%. some guys can (to steal a phrase from Tom Prince) grow their arms just from mowing the lawn. you can max out what you HAVE, but to suggest that we all have the same potential is lunacy.

ah we disagree then. this debate is not really 'provable' but it makes one wonder.

how much of that 300lbs was fat. a lot of it. I can go and grab a random obese guy off the street and he'll easily be stronger than a lot of trained lifters. there's one at my gym. just joined. never trained in his life. he reps out 285 for good reps on the flat.

does he have more lean tissue than a guy of his height who's 5-6% bf? no. he's fatter. there's a huge correlation between strength and sheer size.

[Simple Simon]

Lol! You think posting pics of a few of the top so-called "natural" bodybuilders, the ones who actually get their photos in magazines and websites proves anything? It doesn't. Have you ever heard the term "sample size"? What about the 1000s of others who look like well done concentration camp victims w/ baggy size S posing trunks?

You mean the ones that are not maxed out yet?

[Disgusted]

Ok everyone.  I think I am going to go to Auschwitz and use No One Machine training method.

I have three methods to Auschwitz.  The Slow way, the Fast way or maybe one of your ways.  It all boils down to deficit in the end no matter what way.

1. 2400 calories no changes, ride it out as long as it takes.  Somewhere in the ball park of 16 weeks to 21 weeks.  (could be less, but that is a safe estimate)
2. 2400 calories, decrease by 200 every 3 weeks, stopping at 1600 at lowest and may not even need to go near that low.  Should take 10-12 weeks or so.
3. Disgusted, No One, Simple Simon, Layne Norton, 3dmj, or whoever`s scheme.  (Of course Adonis Principles can be applied to all of these, including outside suggestions)


Either way, all roads lead to Auschwitz.  I think its long overdue.  Live like my kinfolk circa 1944.

My advice is to do what you are most comfortable with. I'm sure you can get down to low levels on your own. If you encounter any problems near the end of your journey then you can come for advice. Shredded is not easy, ripped is easier but requires some diligence.

[The True Adonis]

My advice is to do what you are most comfortable with. I'm sure you can get down to low levels on your own. If you encounter any problems near the end of your journey then you can come for advice. Shredded is not easy, ripped is easier but requires some diligence.

Yah, thats what I am thinking.  Take it as far as I can and then if I get stuck, address the problem, poll the audience and experts and then make the correction needed.  I was walking my dog the other day and was thinking to myself about that Ground Beef diet you once posted about and thought it would be a good thing to do if someone was stuck or if someone wanted to get ultra low bodyfat without any guess work or troubleshooting or nitpicking.  No idea why I thought of it while walking the dog, but I did.  

[no one]

You mean the ones that are not maxed out yet?

Precisely.

lol nothing like throwing yourself under a bus.

fuck your dumb, eh bozo4life?

if your read my posts more closely you could save yourself looking like an utter retard in the future.

which doesn't matter cause you've pretty much been full retard on here for a while now.

carry on.

[Thin Lizzy]

I disagree , I look better now at 49 than I did it 40, and next year I will look better than i do now,

This is the average age of NFL players. Is there no one in their 30s & 40s who wants to make millions playing pro football, or is it that their bodies will no longer allow them to play at an elite level?

[Nick Danger]

The OP looks great...
I didn't read through all the posts so I don't know if you posted your age. Unfortunately it may take a little test for you to gain any good weight at this point...

[Skorp1o]

Come on, skorpio, it looks like he clearly lifts weights. If I saw TA with a tanktop, it would be obvious he lifted. I assume you're just busting his chops

TA looks good....I'm just pulling his wiener for a laugh, I like his well put together yet condescending come backs.

[no one]

So, if only TA had met you in 2006 and followed your dieting and training program to the tee this thread would never exist b/c he would have made gains no natural has ever made before? His genetic limitations notwithstanding. Good thing you figured this all out for everyone.

Genetics don't matter, you just need to pound "the tissue" every day, sometimes 2x a day and the sky is the limit. I got it.

actually I helped you 'learn' that there's no such thing as 'bad genetics for building muscle', dildo.


so keep thinking your one of the imaginary few who god frowned upon for whatever reason when the reality is your just a pansy from birth.

[Simple Simon]

lol nothing like throwing yourself under a bus.

fuck your dumb, eh bozo4life?

if your read my posts more closely you could save yourself looking like an utter retard in the future.

which doesn't matter cause you've pretty much been full retard on here for a while now.

carry on.

dumbo4life.

[polychronopolous]

dumbo4life.

X2

He posts on a few of the other sub-forums here spewing the same nonsense.

[njflex]

CHOLO 4 LIFE is standing his ground,he's not as bad as he's being made out to be here.

[Simple Simon]

CHOLO 4 LIFE is standing his ground,he's not as bad as he's being made out to be here.

He made a bit of a twat of himself earlier, he argued a point and then agreed with it like he was making the point.

[njflex]

He made a bit of a twat of himself earlier, he argued a point and then agreed with it like he was making the point.

not arguing about that or debating it,,but without knowing anything about him physically or his training input knowledge ,its sensless to sit there and insult after insult and name calling..

[Powerlift66]

Great build on Adonis (No H-mo)...

[MisterMagoo]

ah we disagree then. this debate is not really 'provable' but it makes one wonder.

how much of that 300lbs was fat. a lot of it. I can go and grab a random obese guy off the street and he'll easily be stronger than a lot of trained lifters. there's one at my gym. just joined. never trained in his life. he reps out 285 for good reps on the flat.

does he have more lean tissue than a guy of his height who's 5-6% bf? no. he's fatter. there's a huge correlation between strength and sheer size.

he was a 14 year old with 300lb on him no shit he was fat. and no, there is no correlation between strength and fat tissue. zero. if you take a 450 pound man and liposuction 200 pounds of fat out of him he's not going to get weaker. that is 100%, categorically false what you said.

additionally, you're missing the goddamn point that just because there is a natural limit that doesn't mean it's even remotely within the grasp of 99% of people. my point was that, believe it or not, genetics DO play a role. that's why when you get two untrained individuals and put them in a gym they are not equally strong and do not have equal muscle tissue prior to lifting. it's why you get some guys who go from barely doing a pushup to benching 4 plates within a couple years and some guys never hit that mark.

your anecdote about the guy who just joined the gym proves my point. some guys spend ten years trying to get to the point of benching 3 plates and that guy just did it off the street. why? GENETICS. dude is just DNA encoded for muscle.

the whole "random obese guy" thing is just hogwash as well. it's not even slightly accurate. i can't count the number of obese people i've seen join gyms that struggle and wheeze with small weights. there's a huge lump of a man at an old gym i went to that trained his ass off for a few years and was only barely able to get 135 over his head for a few reps.

i don't know where you got your idea that all human beings are the exact same, but there isn't a lick of scientific evidence to support it.

[the trainer]

Yah, thats what I am thinking.  Take it as far as I can and then if I get stuck, address the problem, poll the audience and experts and then make the correction needed.  I was walking my dog the other day and was thinking to myself about that Ground Beef diet you once posted about and thought it would be a good thing to do if someone was stuck or if someone wanted to get ultra low bodyfat without any guess work or troubleshooting or nitpicking.  No idea why I thought of it while walking the dog, but I did.  

You mention jezeble cooking and I remember this song.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Here is Layne Norton without all the fancy lighting and photoshop.

That is a very old picture of Layne....almost 10 years old

[The True Adonis]

That is a very old picture of Layne....almost 10 years old

No its not.  Its from 2010.  He hasn`t progressed really at all since then.

[visualizeperfection]

why do you find it necessary to capitalize lifetime natural?

[Disgusted]

Yah, thats what I am thinking.  Take it as far as I can and then if I get stuck, address the problem, poll the audience and experts and then make the correction needed.  I was walking my dog the other day and was thinking to myself about that Ground Beef diet you once posted about and thought it would be a good thing to do if someone was stuck or if someone wanted to get ultra low bodyfat without any guess work or troubleshooting or nitpicking.  No idea why I thought of it while walking the dog, but I did.  

Yep I remember the guy who's picture I posted who ate a very high fat low protein animal flesh diet. Not sure if that is the one you are referring too. I actually went back the the forum that he posted on and saw that he hasn't posted in months so maybe he died. 

Anywho I think you should follow your principles and like you said if you get stuck you can always do something to get the progress going again. This most likely won't happen until you hit around 6% or so. I have used the zero carb diet on guys who get stuck on high carb and it does work well to get things rolling again even if they go back to a higher carb diet. I look forward to seeing you shredded. It would be nice for people to see a weekly or so progress evaluation with diet posted. I may be inspired to get below 25% myself. 

[Big Chiro Flex]

why do you find it necessary to capitalize lifetime natural?

Lol I thought I was the only one who thought that this was literally one of the gayest things I've seen on here

[deceiver]

No one, there is nothing to argue with.



Say hello to Gaussian curve. It describes fairly well every variable known by me that characterizes population. Height. Weight. Intelligence. BMI. It is actually pretty amazing.

Why would anyone think that there is a variable that is constant among ENTIRE race is beyond me.

[visualizeperfection]

Lol I thought I was the only one who thought that this was literally one of the gayest things I've seen on here

He always does.

It is gay.

Real gay.

Dick in the butt gay.

Dressing for the season gay.

Catching up on Housewives gay.

Making sure to compliment your dinner with the appropriate wine gay.

[Parker]

Your shoes cost more than my car.

I'm more impressed by the attentive look on the stuffed ring neck pheasant. Quite the astute gentleman is TA.