Bible thumpers who are heavy juicers...

[The Ugly]

It applies exclusively to atheists. More specifically, deathbed atheists, if I remember correctly. "Hey, why not accept God just I'm case I'm wrong, cover my ass and all." This is an atheist talking. Obviously it is flawed because you can't fake faith, with God knowing your true heart and all.

Was never intended for believers, and had nothing to do with whether their lives were more or less fulfilling than agnostics/atheists. And the dying with hope part was my thought, not Pascal's. Makes complete sense to me, but totally fine if you disagree. No worries.

[SF1900]

It applies exclusively to atheists. More specifically, deathbed atheists, if I remember correctly. "Hey, why not accept God just I'm case I'm wrong, cover my ass and all." This is an atheist talking. Obviously it is flawed because you can't fake faith, with God knowing your true heart and all.

Was never intended for believers, and had nothing to do with whether their lives were more or less fulfilling than agnostics/atheists. And the dying with hope part was my thought, not Pascal's. Makes complete sense to me, but totally fine if you disagree. No worries.

I never said it didn't make complete sense. I admitted I misinterpreted what you said. That is much different than me saying your argument did not make complete sense. I can totally see why your argument makes sense, it doesn't mean I have to agree with it (as you said, it is totally fine if I disagree with you).

[The Ugly]

That is why I said it "SORT OF SOUNDS" like the argument.

I guess I misinterpreted what you were saying.

Are you disheartened by the fact that believers will reach paradise if they are correct and you won't?

Not disheartened, no. If I'm wrong, I'd be FUCKING TERRIFIED! That would mean hell, which is fairly warm and unkempt, I hear.

But nothing in this world could make me believe such things, so I don't worry about. Though I do contemplate nothingness, which I fully expect, and that doesn't sound overly encouraging, either. But I'll never experience it. Still not very comforting.

[The Ugly]

I never said it didn't make complete sense. I admitted I misinterpreted what you said. That is much different than me saying your argument did not make complete sense. I can totally see why your argument makes sense, it doesn't mean I have to agree with it (as you said, it is totally fine if you disagree with me).

I was typing while you posted your reply, so you'll have to excuse the timing. Wouldn't have expanded otherwise.

[SF1900]

Not disheartened, no. If I'm wrong, I'd be FUCKING TERRIFIED! That would mean hell, which is fairly warm and unkempt, I hear.

But nothing in this world could make me believe such things, so I don't worry about. Though I do contemplate nothingness, which I fully expect, and that doesn't sound overly encouraging, either. But I'll never experience it. Still not very comforting.

I am not terrified what happens after I die. However, I am terrified at death itself. I cannot "accept" that I will cease to be a conscious being. It's very baffling to me. The idea of nothingness seems bizarre to me. I sort of obsess about my own death; I think about it a lot.

[calfzilla]

I am not terrified what happens after I die. However, I am terrified at death itself. I cannot "accept" that I will cease to be a conscious being. It's very baffling to me. The idea of nothingness seems bizarre to me. I sort of obsess about my own death; I think about it a lot.

Will be just like before you were born. In a way we have already been dead.

[The Ugly]

I am not terrified what happens after I die. However, I am terrified at death itself. I cannot "accept" that I will cease to be a conscious being. It's very baffling to me. The idea of nothingness seems bizarre to me. I sort of obsess about my own death; I think about it a lot.

Isn't that pretty much what I said?

[SF1900]

Will be just like before you were born. In a way we have already been dead.

True, but as a conscious being, it still sucks to think that I will eventually be nothing. I have my whole life to think about my death. Yes, once I die it will not matter, but the anticipation of it totally sucks.

[The Ugly]

Will be just like before you were born. In a way we have already been dead.

Think Twain was first to mention that.

[SF1900]

Isn't that pretty much what I said?

No. You said, "If I'm wrong, I'd be FUCKING TERRIFIED! That would mean hell, which is fairly warm and unkempt, I hear."

This implies to me that you are terrified about what will happen after death (you don't want to go to hell because it is warm and unkempt).

I said I was not not terrified of what happens to me after death.

Did I miss something?

[The Ugly]

No. You said, "If I'm wrong, I'd be FUCKING TERRIFIED! That would mean hell, which is fairly warm and unkempt, I hear."

This implies to me that you are terrified about what will happen after death (you don't want to go to hell because it is warm and unkempt).

I said I was not not terrified of what happens to me after death.

Did I miss something?

Yes. You missed the question you asked me directly before, which I was answering for you up top. Please reread in context, then notice how my second paragraph were my true feelings, which was pretty much what you posted right after.

Then maybe go start an argument with someone else. Not really into conflict this early.

[anabolichalo]

if skyman wanted us to be natural we wouldnt be twinks when off drugs and supermen when on drugs

unless of course

skyman want to keep us down


oh wait

[calfzilla]

Think Twain was first to mention that.

Now that you mention it I do remember a famous quote of his. Something about I don't fear death, I've been dead for billions of years... Something like that.

[Man of Steel]

Ask yourself, MOS, why do you wish more atheists/agnostics were like The Ugly? Because on this one point he agrees with the The Scott on this point (That you and him win either way because you're theists). I do not understand this line of reasoning. You're basically saying you only like atheists that agree with you or "pump" up your religion like The Ugly just did? Why can't you like an atheist who wholeheartedly disagrees with you?

The Ugly and I have talked in many different threads publically and privately and the discussion has been positive.

You and I have now done the same.  We started off very rocky LOL, but things have changed in very good way.  I would easily categorize you with Ugly and Archer now.....and should have in my previous post. 

I like avxo as well....I think he's an intelligent man that enjoys discussion and he makes me think.  There are other very positive atheists/agnostics on this board.

Neither ugly, archer, avxo or yourself agree with my beliefs, but that isn't at all what is important.  What is important is that despite disagreement we can still engage in discussion and end our discussion without cursing each other out or talking about each other's mothers.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Ancient Astronaut theory makes a lot more sense than the super natural theory.

[SF1900]

The Ugly and I have talked in many different threads publically and privately and the discussion has been positive.

You and I have now done the same.  We started off very rocky LOL, but things have changed in very good way.  I would easily categorize you with Ugly and Archer now.....and should have in my previous post. 

I like avxo as well....I think he's an intelligent man that enjoys discussion and he makes me think.  There are other very positive atheists/agnostics on this board.

Neither ugly, archer, avxo or yourself agree with my beliefs, but that isn't at all what is important.  What is important is that despite disagreement we can still engage in discussion and end our discussion without cursing each other out or talking about each other's mothers.

I can drink to that! 

[doison]

At the risk of upsetting Adonis and being bunched with the "morons" again, I totally agree with the hopeless sadness that accompanies an accidental universe. It is what it is, I believe, but I don't have to like it. Love my family and friends too much to comfortably accept that I will never see them again or that eternal nothingness isn't depressing as hell. Unfortunately, I've always been very skeptical and science/logic-minded, which makes me incapable of having faith in ideas that don't personally add up.

At the very least, I take comfort knowing my family has faith that death (mine, there's, whomevers) is not the end for them/us. And here's the upside, Scott. For you guys, you win either way. If you're right, eternal love and happiness. If you're wrong, you'll never know, but dying itself will be less traumatic with hope.

I'm only ok if I'm right. And even that is a depressing ok.

Be well.

Are you just as bothered by the time you werent here before you were born?

[The Ugly]

Are you just as bothered by the time you werent here before you were born?

I was never conscious in order to contemplate it. Am now is all.

[The Scott]

No, totally misunderstood. Pascal would only apply if I were to invoke it. Scott is a legitimate believer, so if his belief holds true, he reaches paradise. I admitted I couldn't believe if I tried. Wager doesn't apply at all in this case.

I have my moments of doubt, believe me my friend.  And I often ask myself these (and more) questions -

Is it truly paradise if those I know, love and care for are not allowed in because they asked for "more" i.e., "proof".   Why is disbelief a sin when proof  of something worthy of belief is absent enough to warrant not believing?  I can survive eternity knowing scum are in Hell but not such as you.  If I know the difference between "justice" and "just us", how much more so a loving God?

What the Christ taught is more than worthy but we have been over two thousand years in waiting and yet we are still expected to have faith in His return.  There will always be "wars and rumors of wars".  Signs come and go and still we wait.

There is more but I shall not bore anyone for now.

As always be well.

[The Ugly]

I have my moments of doubt, believe me my friend.  And I often ask myself these (and more) questions -

Is it truly paradise if those I know, love and care for are not allowed in because they asked for "more" i.e., "proof".   Why is disbelief a sin when proof  of something worthy of belief is absent enough to warrant not believing?  I can survive eternity knowing scum are in Hell but not such as you.  If I know the difference between "justice" and "just us", how much more so a loving God?

What the Christ taught is more than worthy but we have been over two thousand years in waiting and yet we are still expected to have faith in His return.  There will always be "wars and rumors of wars".  Signs come and go and still we wait.

There is more but I shall not bore anyone for now.

As always be well.

It's my understanding that Christ's apostles and followers were expecting His return in their lifetimes, which also seems to be the case with every generation since. I see how this can cause doubt and frustration.

[Irongrip400]

You can not apply logic to religion. "God works in mysterious ways" negates anything you can ever say.

Alot of the same in psychology too.

[FermiDirac]

[Powerlift66]

Most are phonies, just like pervert Priests...

[thebrink]

mega dosing for christ 

[The Scott]

Some people want it all without ever having to give it their all.  Train for health and the life it gives you.