Back twice a week?

[Option D]

Back has always been a lagging body part (because i really didnt train it a lot).
Im trying to work towards a bigger back with thickness and width. But the issue is the insane numbers of angles and movemnts needed to get the complete back and the time it would take on back day to complete them all with intensity.

So me thinks i could train for thickness on one day and a few days later train for width...

any of you ever attack back like that?

[Donny]

Back has always been a lagging body part (because i really didnt train it a lot).
Im trying to work towards a bigger back with thickness and width. But the issue is the insane numbers of angles and movemnts needed to get the complete back and the time it would take on back day to complete them all with intensity.

So me thinks i could train for thickness on one day and a few days later train for width...

any of you ever attack back like that?

Barbell rows.... Quality training not quantity or frequency.

[Option D]

Barbell rows.... Quality training not quantity or frequency.

if you didnt have those purple stars, i would tell you to fuck off J/k

Im a novice in training back, what would a typical back workout look like?

Back day 1 for me is
Deads pyramid up to 495 for 6
BB row pyramid up to 245 for 6
Chainsaws with 120 for 10 (4 sets)
Seated cable rows heavy for 8 4 (sets)


but that doesnt address Lat width...and when i tried to get to some pull downs and pull ups... i had nothing left

[ritch]

split your back in a horizontal movement day
then vertical.

So one day you're doing chins, pulldowns, pullovers....
Other (3-4 days later) rows of variations.

you will never wanna train back all together again I think.

[Option D]

split your back in a horizontal movement day
then vertical.

So one day you're doing chins, pulldowns, pullovers....
Other (3-4 days later) rows of variations.

you will never wanna train back all together again I think.

Thats what i figured.
I tried to do heavy rows yesterday and do biceps on the back end...I had nothing left. I got through the Back part...but the biceps..nothing

thursday ill knock out chins, cable pull downs and hammer machine pull downs.

[chaos]

I'll clean up Donnys shit later.
But for now, Mal, just do deadlifts, bbell rows, then pullups/downs.

[Option D]

I'll clean up Donnys shit later.
But for now, Mal, just do deadlifts, bbell rows, then pullups/downs.

ok thanks...ill do that next week..

about 16 working sets total sound about right?

[chaos]

ok thanks...ill do that next week..

about 16 working sets total sound about right?

I do alot of sets, low reps for deadlifts, then the rest i do about 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps.

[ritch]

Thats what i figured.
I tried to do heavy rows yesterday and do biceps on the back end...I had nothing left. I got through the Back part...but the biceps..nothing

thursday ill knock out chins, cable pull downs and hammer machine pull downs.

train hamstrings after back thickness.
quads after back width.

It's the best of both worlds. Will never wanna do full leg training either once you split them up...

[Option D]

I do alot of sets, low reps for deadlifts, then the rest i do about 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps.

ok...i do actually do about 6 sets of deads starting with 2 plates and going to 5 plates.

thats some good solid training advices.. thanks

[Option D]

train hamstrings after back thickness.
quads after back width.

It's the best of both worlds. Will never wanna do full leg training either once you split them up...

i gotta UP my calories for this kind of training. Im at about 3k clean per day. Body basically said "NO MAS" after 4 days of straight if this kind of training

[jpm101]

Glad you just didn't say lat's, but total back.  That's a good start, and goal, to keep in mind.

Three mass builders for your consideration. All BB'ing reps of 6-10 reps. 2 or 3 sets each. If doing the sets with serious intent, than more sets are not needed...just like everything else in lifting.

DL's are an excellent total back exercise, but perhaps not meant for everyone. Some men are not designed for this exercise (as some are not designed for the squat or bench...truth be told) and sooner or later come up with some unexpected injuries.  If using a trap/shrug bar, with the thumbs facing forward and nothing in the way of the knees, than better the chance of getting the most of this total back mass building exercise.  And hopefully without injuries. Taller men usually have a problem with a regular straight bar hitting the  knees/shines  (top DL'ers will usually have skid marks, as some call them, on the shins and knees; bruises, scabs, etc..) Might want to use reps in the range of 6 to 10. At the top standing position of each rep of a DL, shrug the shoulders as high as possible.

BB Rows:  A version, which I have seen some very thick & advanced guys doing. is a medium  grip  row. As the bar raises from the floor,  at the same time  the  upper body begins to straighten up and the exercise becomes more of a combo row and high pull at the finish. A great mass builder for the whole back area. Or the curl grip, medium hand spacing BB row is another effected back builder. Pull the bar to the lower abs as much as you can....pause for 2-3 seconds and lower the bar back to the starting position.

Heavy weighted chins.   Medium grip, either curl grip or hammer grip (thumbs back). Alternate grips each workout if you wish. Find one better grip than the other for you, than use it.

Good luck.

[ritch]

i gotta UP my calories for this kind of training. Im at about 3k clean per day. Body basically said "NO MAS" after 4 days of straight if this kind of training

4-5 days should be plenty. But it's an individual thing...

[Option D]

Glad you just didn't say lat's, but total back.  That's a good start, and goal, to keep in mind.

Three mass builders for your consideration. All BB'ing reps of 6-10 reps. 2 or 3 sets each. If doing the sets with serious intent, than more sets are not needed...just like everything else in lifting.

DL's are an excellent total back exercise, but perhaps not meant for everyone. Some men are not designed for this exercise (as some are not designed for the squat or bench...truth be told) and sooner or later come up with some unexpected injuries.  If using a trap/shrug bar, with the thumbs facing forward and nothing in the way of the knees, than better the chance of getting the most of this total back mass building exercise.  And hopefully without injuries. Taller men usually have a problem with a regular straight bar hitting the  knees/shines  (top DL'ers will usually have skid marks, as some call them, on the shins and knees; bruises, scabs, etc..) Might want to use reps in the range of 6 to 10. At the top standing position of each rep of a DL, shrug the shoulders as high as possible.

BB Rows:  A version, which I have seen some very thick & advanced guys doing. is a medium  grip  row. As the bar raises from the floor,  at the same time  the  upper body begins to straighten up and the exercise becomes more of a combo row and high pull at the finish. A great mass builder for the whole back area. Or the curl grip, medium hand spacing BB row is another effected back builder. Pull the bar to the lower abs as much as you can....pause for 2-3 seconds and lower the bar back to the starting position.

Heavy weighted chins.   Medium grip, either curl grip or hammer grip (thumbs back). Alternate grips each workout if you wish. Find one better grip than the other for you, than use it.

Good luck.

Thanks a whole lot. That’s some good advices too…The conscious movements seem to deads, bb rows and pull ups.
Ive been in golds Hollywood and seen rich piana doing those rows where there is some extension at the hip like he’s going to stand straight up a bit. I did them yesterday with a pure “torso parallel to the floor” stance with super strict movement. But you’re saying I can jazz it up a bit (and add more weight) by straightening up half way through my movement.
Are dumbbell rows a waste of time compared to BB rows?

[Option D]

for the deads i gotta shrug the shoulders UP more...i notice i had been rolling them back more than forcing them up.

[jpm101]

Pretty much a rule of thumb for getting larger and stronger is to use a looser style. Cheating is an art form when done correctly. Which doesn't mean just throwing weight up any old way. Strict style does have a place in BB'ing I suppose, but most very large men mostly use compound exercises, partial reps with a heavier, looser style of training. So might consider all that jazz in some of the future workouts.

Is that Gold's still on Vine, across from the donut shop? Haven't been around that area of Hollywood for years.

Good Luck

[Option D]

Pretty much a rule of thumb for getting larger and stronger is to use a looser style. Cheating is an art form when done correctly. Which doesn't mean just throwing weight up any old way. Strict style does have a place in BB'ing I suppose, but most very large men mostly use compound exercises, partial reps with a heavier, looser style of training. So might consider all that jazz in some of the future workouts.

Is that Gold's still on Vine, across from the donut shop? Haven't been around that area of Hollywood for years.

Good Luck

its close to vine..its on a street named Cole. It runs the same way as vine, just a couple of blocks over. They just built a huge parking structure next to it. Its a an alright Gym but i dont live in hollywood anymore. So i go to 24 hour fitness in manhanttan beach.. pretty close to my place

[Donny]

cheating is a quick route to injury. the Best Bodybuilders used strict form and not training to failure. Training to failure is using loose form.

[chaos]

Cheating is an art form when done correctly.

Good Luck

Absolutely!  Even my cheat lifts are stricter in form than some "competitors".

[Donny]

Absolutely!  Even my cheat lifts are stricter in form than some "competitors".

please explain this further ..what lifts and how are yours stricter? what "competitors" are you talking about ? Name me them and why you think your "loose" form is stricter. Also explain why these competitors look WORSE than you do? I assume you look better than they do ?

[chaos]

please explain this further ..what lifts and how are yours stricter? what "competitors" are you talking about ? Name me them and why you think your "loose" form is stricter. Also explain why these competitors look WORSE than you do? I assume you look better than they do ?

You're much too focused on looks. Makes you come across very materialistic.
Let's not forget I trained at Koloseum and watched many pro bbers lift.

[local hero]

For lats you have to lower under control, if you let the bar drop on rows for example your missing out big time.. Actually until you can learn to feel your lats your treading water..

If your going to deadlift, flex your lats before you lift the bar and keep the tension throughout the rep, I didn't bother with the shrug at the top, as I followed deads with shrugs

The routine I used as a jnr that actualy built my back was as follows


Light lat pulldown and stretches

Wide grip chin x bodyweight.. Then with added weight, finishing with one set at the end using a very close grip triangle bar draped over the chin bar, deep stretch to begin and drive up to the bar hits your sternom

Yates style bb row, I used to get upto 3 n half plates a side doing these, finish with partials

Then deads as I described

Bb shrugs to finish...



I followed a Yates style set and rep scheme at the time too, with two work sets took to failure
Totally different to the pumpy style I use now, i don't even go to failure any more and use more volume with less rest between sets..but above was how I built it in the 1st place when my joints and tendons were young and fresh

Id also advise anyone to read the 1st blood and guts for exersize execution and how to help feel the movement

[Option D]

For lats you have to lower under control, if you let the bar drop on rows for example your missing out big time.. Actually until you can learn to feel your lats your treading water..

If your going to deadlift, flex your lats before you lift the bar and keep the tension throughout the rep, I didn't bother with the shrug at the top, as I followed deads with shrugs

The routine I used as a jnr that actualy built my back was as follows


Light lat pulldown and stretches

Wide grip chin x bodyweight.. Then with added weight, finishing with one set at the end using a very close grip triangle bar draped over the chin bar, deep stretch to begin and drive up to the bar hits your sternom

Yates style bb row, I used to get upto 3 n half plates a side doing these, finish with partials

Then deads as I described

Bb shrugs to finish...



I followed a Yates style set and rep scheme at the time too, with two work sets took to failure
Totally different to the pumpy style I use now, i don't even go to failure any more and use more volume with less rest between sets..but above was how I built it in the 1st place when my joints and tendons were young and fresh

Id also advise anyone to read the 1st blood and guts for exersize execution and how to help feel the movement

Lat pull downs warm up
Wide grip chins for 3 sets
V bar chins for 3 sets
BB Row 5 sets (based on getting up to 3 ½ plates)
And then deads (what rep/set) range
Followed by shrugs

sound about right?

[local hero]

Chins x bodyweight  + weight x 2 sets
V bar x bodyweight  1 set

Bbrow 20 per side, 40, 60.... Then 70k each side x 2 sets

Similar progression on deads and shrugs... I never went over 6 reps on deads, and never under 3

I put very little effort into the warm Ups, just let the muscles get used to the weight

As I said, not what I do now, but it worked when I was younger, and I had a very good back



I do like the look of ritch's idea of splitting width and thickness, if your deadlifting 5 plates your quite advanced, you just need to make more of an effort to contract and release under control, any rep and set scheme will work... If you can deadlift 5 plates in the way I described you would have some serious thickness top to bottom

[Option D]

Chins x bodyweight  + weight x 2 sets
V bar x bodyweight  1 set

Bbrow 20 per side, 40, 60.... Then 70k each side x 2 sets

Similar progression on deads and shrugs... I never went over 6 reps on deads, and never under 3

I put very little effort into the warm Ups, just let the muscles get used to the weight

As I said, not what I do now, but it worked when I was younger, and I had a very good back

ah haaaa thanks for the info...its on par with the other trusted members of the training board.
i got about 7 months to build a respectable back. .